first problems power steering - hope i didnt buy a 64 galaxie lemon

[neverwinter]

and so it begins. of course the car drove fine when i was test driving it - there was a slight whine from the power steering but now its pretty bad. as soon as i touch the gas the whine begins. there is no whine at idle tho. so obv something with the a pulley is causing an issue.

i9 topped off the pow steering fluid and there are no leaks. i looked over the belt but i am going to replace it regardless and hope that solves it. the car tracks dead straight even when i take hands off wheel and jam on brakes. id assume thats more an alignment thing than power steering but thought id mention it.

already the key switch has broken and so has 1 of the window cranks. now the taillights dont work and the o9nly light working on the dash is the hi/low beam indicator - tho of course the lights themselves just stopped working. going to get all new fuses and once again pray!!

any ideas on the whine sound?

[TexasDart]

have you tried taking the belt off to see if the whine goes away. You may need to replace the pwr pump....you don't have to get all new fuses just look to see if you have any blown ones...and replace the blown ones.

[neverwinter]

ah good idea about the belt. i looked at the number on the belt and it is a "drive rite" advance auto brand "spun cog" style that according to their crappy website says it is not for the car. i'll try the suggestion to pull the belt and see if that does it. as for the fuses they were all pretty well kaput so might as well see if the new ones will do it.
according to the website the belt is 46 inches or so outside diam while the range from whats on napa's site is from 38 3/4 inches to 40 or so without an AC. i cant imagine a belt 6 inches longer than stock would even fit on the pulleys and be close to tight but this one is.

does anyone know the stock length for a power steering belt non-AC 64 galaxie 500?

[hotroddon]

If the power steering whines and you take the belt off, of course it is going to stop whining - It is no longer operating. It won't tell you anything. You need to isolate whether it is a slipping belt (usually more of a Squeal) or a bad pump (more of a whine)

[Cerberus]

If you rub a bar of plain white soap against the belt while the engine is running and the whine goes away its the belt. If while driving the car the pump makes a rubber band noise it is the pump.

[VoodooTwin]

Squirt the belt with some belt dressing to see if that solves the whine. If it does, it's the belt. Make sure it fits the v-groove properly too. Length isn't the only issue. Geez, that didn't sound right. :-)

[porknbeaner]

Originally Posted by TexasDart

have you tried taking the belt off to see if the whine goes away. You may need to replace the pwr pump....you don't have to get all new fuses just look to see if you have any blown ones...and replace the blown ones.

Someone probably put type F transmission fluid in it at one time. That will make them whine like the devil and it would have been what was in the trunk when the oump was low. The f doesn't stand for ford it stands for friction and it will caue a little problem with the bushuings causing the whine.

[ELpolacko]

Don't these also have a filter or screen between the reservoir and the pump?

[31Vicky with a hemi]

a 64 lemon ?
Yea pretty much anything 40 yrs old is bound to have problems.

If by some chance its sucking air into the system it will whine.
Extended storage then sudden use can break stuff.
Excessive maneuvering can make them hot, break down the fluid and make them whine.
Old moisture saturated fluid can make them whine.

Then it could just be worn out

[neverwinter]

well i did pull the belt off and started the car - sound was the same. then i9 tried to take the alternator belt off to check that and the 2nd battery is dead for the second time in 2 days. i have no idea if the one the seller had in the car was any good. went to start it yesterday and it died so i put a brand new battery i got 3 months ago and know is good, now that one is dead. i have just under 12v to the key switch but when i turn the switch on it has a HUGE voltage drop. it was working fine before i pulled the belts off.

ugh i am really stressed. i know these are old cars and thats fine. but i thought i was getting something i could get in and go - at least for the season anyway - and now i am stressing about more money on yet another project. i probably should have listened to my gut and stayed away. damn it. trying to not overreact.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

No belts and still whining is either something really small and stupid or major problem.

Drainage of battery is usually easy to find.
Pull all the fuses and while measuring the draw, replace them one at a time.

However the two problems could be related

[Mr48chev]

Originally Posted by porknbeaner

Someone probably put type F transmission fluid in it at one time. That will make them whine like the devil and it would have been what was in the trunk when the oump was low. The f doesn't stand for ford it stands for friction and it will caue a little problem with the bushuings causing the whine.

PnB beat me to it. Check and see if it has red fluid rather than power steering fluid that is usually clear or slightly amber.

I lost track of the noisy power steering pumps that I flushed trans fluid out of and replaced with proper power steering fluid in the 70's when I worked in a dealership.

If that doesn't fix it then replace the pump.

This is one time I would suggest going to the dealer and paying for the factory supplied power steering fluid too rather than off the shelf at the parts house.

[48ford]

If you toook the belt off and it still makes noise,It's not the power steering,once you took the belt off the pump is not moving.
Try this
Take a long screw driver and put your thum on the end of it(handle) now put it up to your ere and touch the blade end to the water pump and then the altenater,and you can tell if one of them is bad. be carefull doing this as the motor is running when you do this test.
Remember the belts have to be on so everything is spinning.
Good luck and let us know.
Russ

[Cerberus]

I'm running a 70's Mustg II pwr steering pump that calls for Type F automatic transmission fluid (reddish). The early 60's Mustangs I had called for Type A automatic transmission fluid. May want to drain the ps fluid and fill with Type A.

[shoprat]

Sounds like u need a newer car

[neverwinter]

ok went and tried again. i swapped out 2 more key switches just to be sure. same huge voltage drop on both. then unhooked the alternator - same voltage drop. yet when i dont connect the wire that goes to the starter relay i get 12.2 volts across all 3 terminals on the switch (power, access, ignition). is the starter relay possibly the culprit? i will see if i can get a neighbor to turn the key while i check the volts on the non-battery side of the relay with the key on. i also have all the fuses out. would this be causing an issue? sorry for idiot questions.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

ok went and tried again. i swapped out 2 more key switches just to be sure. same huge voltage drop on both. then unhooked the alternator - same voltage drop. yet when i dont connect the wire that goes to the starter relay i get 12.2 volts across all 3 terminals on the switch (power, access, ignition). is the starter relay possibly the culprit? i will see if i can get a neighbor to turn the key while i check the volts on the non-battery side of the relay with the key on. i also have all the fuses out. would this be causing an issue? sorry for idiot questions.

It could be, it could also be a problem in the starter.
Any chance your starter is dragging and causing the whining noise you are hearing?

[40FordGuy]

Ps whine....Ditto air in the system..... I'd flush it out, and follow the factory method to bleed it. Use the factory recommended fluid, of course...... Belt noise diagnosis...we just squirt a bit of plain ol' water on the belt...noise goes away for a few seconds......And we know which belt it is.......

Happy Roddin'........... 4TTRUK

[40FordGuy]

Voltage drop "downstream of the keyswitch,..... Maybe you have a system that has the ballast resistor built into the switch..... I know that Ford used a resistor wire on pickups after 1970....but Not sure about pass cars before then.....

4TTRUK

[rld14]

Low fluid? Well we checked for that. Wrong fluid? Like PnB said, check for that.

If it's not that, your 48 year old car needs the pump rebuilt in all probability.

[Kentuckian]

The huge voltage drop could be from the starter hung in the flywheel. Try to turn the engine by the fan if the belt is tight enough. If the starter is hung it should release.

A bad solenoid on an early Ford can be determined by jumping across its large outer poles where the battery/starter cables attach.

[Andamo]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

well i did pull the belt off and started the car - sound was the same. then i9 tried to take the alternator belt off to check that and the 2nd battery is dead for the second time in 2 days. i have no idea if the one the seller had in the car was any good. went to start it yesterday and it died so i put a brand new battery i got 3 months ago and know is good, now that one is dead. i have just under 12v to the key switch but when i turn the switch on it has a HUGE voltage drop. it was working fine before i pulled the belts off.

ugh i am really stressed. i know these are old cars and thats fine. but i thought i was getting something i could get in and go - at least for the season anyway - and now i am stressing about more money on yet another project. i probably should have listened to my gut and stayed away. damn it. trying to not overreact.

He's pulled the belts off and the sound is still there so it's NOT the power steering pump at all. If the car is a automatic trans it might be the front pump.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by Kentuckian

The huge voltage drop could be from the starter hung in the flywheel. Try to turn the engine by the fan if the belt is tight enough. If the starter is hung it should release.

A bad solenoid on an early Ford can be determined by jumping across its large outer poles where the battery/starter cables attach.

Exactly and if , if his starter is hung up in the flywheel its going to whine.

Belts are off noise stayed.
Two problems - whine and dead batteries, at the same time

[neverwinter]

ok well just tried replacing the solenoid - all that did was cost me 15 bucks and half an hour lol. i triple checked all connections, cleaned the battery, put the original dead battery in my truck and it fired right up. so have the new battery in the car showing 11.9 volts (i know thats low but i have to charge it). installed the new solenoid and same frigging issue!

i took a video of the sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf6H3...&feature=g-upl

i tapped the starter too but nothing. when i run the voltmeter over the ignition terminal with the key on i get 5.8 volts!! not good. i will try jumping the car tomorrow and after that i am at a complete loss unless i need to yank the starter. going to try and spin it by hand now.

[Old Dude]

It is hard to fix on line. would have to listen to it, in order to have an idea ! If you have a local gear head around, let him listen to it. could be a number of things.

[neverwinter]

Old Dude - i posted a vid of the sound here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf6H3...&feature=g-upl

i just tried rotating the engine using the fan. the belts were tight and that didnt unbind the starter. i then loosened the belts and tried - stlll nada.

i give. i am seriously becoming pissed off. i wanted a driver and thought that was what i was getting. i have no lights, no turn signals, the frigging thing wont start, the oil and GEN lights stay on no matter if i disconnect the battery, the only thing the fuses did was to get a wiper to work.

i know this can all be fixed but thats not the point. damn it.

[neverwinter]

i did add more trans fluid as there was none in it - i made sure to keep checking the dipstick with the car running. could i have added too much?

[ELpolacko]

You know, instead of sending you down another wild goose chase how about some old fashioned trouble shooting.

Battery drain is a pain in the ass to figure out. But use a process of elimination. Separate out all the electrical items as discussed before and slowly start adding them back in. An OHM meter is a much better tool to use than a Volt meter for trouble shooting. Once each circuit is separated, look for one that has resistance. If everything is in good working order you should see zero to little resistance in each line.

Things that make a power steering like growl; well how about the gaskets under the carb fluttering, crutch tip on the carb or manifold worn out and acting like a reed instrument, timing chain, dampener isolastic rubber gone and the weight ring rubbing against something. What kind of condition is the water pump in?

[neverwinter]

thanks ElPolacko.

at this point id trade the power steering whine for a frigging car that runs lol. how the hell does it go from starting instantly to now its completely fubard? do i try to pull the starter too and see if it is stuck or dead?

did the video i took offer any insight?

[ELpolacko]

Video no workie.

Starter Bendix could be crap and not returning the gear. Pull the starter, three bolts (2 bolts? ) and your electrical cable and have a look. The gear should be retracted, look for obvious signs of wear.

[neverwinter]

hmm damn videos. http://youtu.be/Tf6H3-6S8Fk can u see that now? tomorrow i will pull the starter.

[ELpolacko]

that vid worked.

Not a ps pump sound, and not a normal starter sound either.

Almost like an exhaust leak.

Coming from the front of the engine?

[ELpolacko]

Have you been underneath this thing to see if a tree branch or other FOD is jammed up inside the undercarriage rubbing against something?

[harpo1313]

+
sounds like water pump to me,does that have its own belt you can remove?does it increase when throttling up?like was said put a long stick on your ear and carefully touch it to all your components and youll find it fast.

[Commish]

Video worked for me, sounds almost like a pulley rubbing on something, if you have the belts off all the accessories, and still have the noise look closely at the crank pulley, does not sound like it is starter related to me. From your guesses and things you are trying I think you are way in over your head. Do you have any gearhead friends that could help you sort it out.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Not a steering pump whine.
That sounds more like a metallic version of a ball card in the spokes of a bicycle.

[ELpolacko]

Originally Posted by Commish

Video worked for me, sounds almost like a pulley rubbing on something, if you have the belts off all the accessories, and still have the noise look closely at the crank pulley, does not sound like it is starter related to me. From your guesses and things you are trying I think you are way in over your head. Do you have any gearhead friends that could help you sort it out.

Originally Posted by 31Vicky with a hemi

Not a steering pump whine.
That sounds more like a metallic version of a ball card in the spokes of a bicycle.

Same pages, reminded me of how close the pulleys are on an FE. If the pump bearings are worn out the water pump pulley would grind against the crank pulley.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by ELpolacko

Same pages, reminded me of how close the pulleys are on an FE. If the pump bearings are worn out the water pump pulley would grind against the crank pulley.
fullsize/img_1280.jpg[/IMG]

Noise remains with belts off. Posted earlier.

[ELpolacko]

The pulleys would still touch regardless

[1964countrysedan]

watched the video
couldn't really tell if this had been converted to an alternator
IF NOT
sounds like something loose in the generator either FOD or a brush or brush clip

[neverwinter]

thank you all. i do appreciate the help. i am lost. i fully admit its over my head. to recap tho - i cant get the starter to even try and engage. the whine sound i initially spoke of is NOT the sound in the video. i cant get the car to run to show you the other whining sound. the metal spinning sound in the video began when i tried to start the car and nothing happened.

the sound seems most definitely to be coming from the solenoid area. as i move closer to the solenoid, the sound increases. i am going to check the starter today. maybe get that tested? ill get the car up on stands and get underneath and check the remaining connections.

argh.

[ol55]

-A reminder to disconnect the battery ground (-) before removing the starter.
-Seems like you have two problems which may or may not be related.
-It would be good for you to have a trouble shooting chart. I googled "no start troubleshooting chart 1964 Ford" and came up with several choices.
- If you charge the battery you should disconnect the ground,especially overnight, until you find the problem.
- Be thankful you are not doing this outside during winter!

Larry

[bobss396]

Take a close look at the positive battery cable, follow it down to the starter and also up from the starter to the solenoid. Check for the insulation worn off and shorting to ground, even a small amount is a dead short. I would take the starter out regardless and get it checked out. Look at the flywheel best as possible while you're there.

Bob

[neverwinter]

hmm update. just jumped the car with my Honda (gasp). fired right up. the whine is back but thats fine i'll deal with that later.

however 10 seconds after i unhooked my Honda battery, the ford died and wont start again. the battery only shows 11.2 as a surface charge so maybe i did in fact kill it. going to get a new one today. i wanted to check the alternator but couldnt get the car to run long enough - although since it was running, if the alt was any good shouldn't it have kept it running?

maybe i am making wrong assumptions but: i imagine an 8 cyl 390 needs a lot of juice to fire the starter motor. i woul think the voltage drop during the time the starter is trying to turn over would be the biggest raw on the system and would be fairly consistent in its power consumption? in other words if i have a good battery showing 14 volts and i draw 5-6 volts during cranking and the car starts the great. but if i have 11 at the battery and i try to crank, i should still use that same 5-6 volts and thus i only have 6v left for the car. not nearly enough. am i anywhere close on this thinking?

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

hmm update. just jumped the car with my Honda (gasp). fired right up. the whine is back but thats fine i'll deal with that later.

however 10 seconds after i unhooked my Honda battery, the ford died and wont start again. the battery only shows 11.2 as a surface charge so maybe i did in fact kill it. going to get a new one today. i wanted to check the alternator but couldnt get the car to run long enough - although since it was running, if the alt was any good shouldn't it have kept it running?

maybe i am making wrong assumptions but: i imagine an 8 cyl 390 needs a lot of juice to fire the starter motor. i woul think the voltage drop during the time the starter is trying to turn over would be the biggest raw on the system and would be fairly consistent in its power consumption? in other words if i have a good battery showing 14 volts and i draw 5-6 volts during cranking and the car starts the great. but if i have 11 at the battery and i try to crank, i should still use that same 5-6 volts and thus i only have 6v left for the car. not nearly enough. am i anywhere close on this thinking?

By jumping the car, you are basically doubling the amperage, so of course it'll start easier. The starter is probably dragging internally and needs to be rebuilt.

If you check a battery across the terminals, you are reading the overall battery condition, 11.2 volts is good. No 12v battery alone will show 14 volts. I also have doubts that the generator is charging, if it was good to begin, it probably isn't by now. So right now, you are looking at a starter, generator and voltage regulator to get the starting and charging system straightened out.

Bob

[brad chevy]

Why don't you just pull the alt. off ,take it with you when you go to get the battery. Most all the parts stores have testers for the alt. That could be one of your main problems.

[neverwinter]

yep i am def doing that!

[1964countrysedan]

Please post a picture of the alternator.

[sunbeam]

I'm sure you will find the tail lights and dash lights are on the same fuse.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

If this was running fine when you bought it -
Then shortly after all of these problems started-

What did you do to the car in-between.
Anything you did could be important.
Examples:
Washing under the hood, jumping with crossed cables, tune up, engine bay detailing , electronics install, and the like .....

Why was there no/low transmission fluid?
Did you check it properly as detailed in the factory service manual?
Are you certain of the fluid it takes and use that fluid.

Why is there no whine in the video? Whats different? Why post a video to help diagnose a whine when the noise isn't present?

Detailed answers will help fix your problems,

These old cars are mechanical, simple, and easy to fix. Its been my experience here on the hamb that most problems are answered on the first page. The ones that go on for
any pages and seem to be unsolvable are missing a major chunk of info we get after page 10, or some test was done incorrectly.

We can't actually fix it for you over the interweb , but we can get you on the right path or trouble
shooting chart.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by ELpolacko

The pulleys would still touch regardless

OK, there would be some shiney spots on both pulleys. I can see that not making a difference of belts or no belts.

Wouldn't the pump leak if the WP shaft had that much play to droop down to the crank pulley. Having the belts on would make constant contact at the pulley.


According to the OP the video posted of the car running doesn't exhibit the whine and the clicking noise is not the noise he's concerned about. He also says he will live with the whine. I think we are missing some important info

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by 31Vicky with a hemi

If this was running fine when you bought it -
Then shortly after all of these problems started-

What did you do to the car in-between.
Anything you did could be important.
Examples:
Washing under the hood, jumping with crossed cables, tune up, engine bay detailing , electronics install, and the like .....

Why was there no/low transmission fluid?
Did you check it properly as detailed in the factory service manual?
Are you certain of the fluid it takes and use that fluid.

Why is there no whine in the video? Whats different? Why post a video to help diagnose a whine when the noise isn't present?

Detailed answers will help fix your problems,

These old cars are mechanical, simple, and easy to fix. Its been my experience here on the hamb that most problems are answered on the first page. The ones that go on for any pages and seem to be unsolvable are missing a major chunk of info we get after page 10, or some test was done incorrectly.

We can't actually fix it for you over the interweb , but we can get you on the right path or trouble shooting chart.

Generator equipped cars are a lot less forgiving for errors made like accidently shorting a hot to ground, even for a split second. It seems like there may be multiple problems going on, even harder for those with limited skills to diagnose and fix.

I would beg, borrow or steal a set of factory manuals for the car. Your local library might have one. I have a set for the '64 Ford myself and would be happy to look up anything that will help.

Bob

[neverwinter]

thanks 31. there is non whine in the video because the whine i initially described was when i had the car running and was trying to determine if the pow steering had an issue. in trying to solve that problem i created a second issue - the non starting issue. the video is the sound the car was making when it wouldn't start.

i am almost 100% i am at fault. actually i am 100% sure i am 100% at fault. it dawned on me that i am using a crappy key switch from autozone because the one in the car broke. I just ordered the right one from NAPA and will be trying that. something obviously is a mess if it was all working and now i have no lights, etc.

i do appreciate everyones assistance. and patience.

[neverwinter]

ps - i have an alternator not a generator.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

thanks 31. there is non whine in the video because the whine i initially described was when i had the car running and was trying to determine if the pow steering had an issue. in trying to solve that problem i created a second issue - the non starting issue. the video is the sound the car was making when it wouldn't start.
i am almost 100% i am at fault. actually i am 100% sure i am 100% at fault. it dawned on me that i am using a crappy key switch from autozone because the one in the car broke. I just ordered the right one from NAPA and will be trying that. something obviously is a mess if it was all working and now i have no lights, etc.

i do appreciate everyones assistance. and patience.

So you changed the ignition switch,
then your problems started ?

And the car is not running in the video?
That clicking is a solenoid someplace clicking at about 1500 clicks a minute ?

[neverwinter]

well the prob started when the OEM switch cylinder lock broke. so i used a regular 3 position switch from autozone thinking that would be ok. it did work for a while but i am wondering if i didnt rig it up properly thus causing the electrical crap storm i have created for myself.

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by 31Vicky with a hemi

So you changed the ignition switch,
then your problems started ?

And the car is not running in the video?
That clicking is a solenoid someplace clicking at about 1500 clicks a minute ?

The clicking solenoid is a sign of a poor connection in the starting circuit. Quite possibly a short as well.

Bob

[neverwinter]

correct - that clicking sound is the solenoid clicking when i turn the key on. the car is not running in that video. i am going to napa in an hour to get the right key switch, test my batt and alternator, and i am color coding a wiring schematic now. i am sure it is my own error just trying to sort it. as always many thanks,

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by bobss396

The clicking solenoid is a sign of a poor connection in the starting circuit. Quite possibly a short as well.

Bob

Yep, no sense in chasing that just yet.
Everyone thought the engine was running, was someone holding the key or does it do that on its own? The solenoid was changed, ( no change) and so was the ignition switch which apparently started these issues. Universal 3 position auto zone special.
What symptoms prompted the ignition switch change may help sort it out.

[neverwinter]

the OEM switch that was in the car broke as i turned the key - not just the tumbler but the connectors inside it broke. so i needed a new switch and got the one from autozone - not a good idea.

the solenoid clicking was when i turned the key ON to the IGNITION side of the switch. one thing i do not understand is that it seems like my starting/charging/and ignition circuits all come thru 1 wire to the key switch. i'd think the circuits should be more isolated? i can literally take the power wire from the battery to the key and tap it to the wire going out to the solenoid and the car will try and start (with the jumper battery anyway). is this normal?

[neverwinter]

the solenoid does not click on its own.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Almost any vintage vehicle can be jumped like that.
Let's say the wiring is correct for this ..... hot wire from battery to coil, screwdriver from “S" solenoid post to positive battery post- its running in less than 30 seconds.

You either have the wires crossed on the solenoid or the ignition switch is really screwed up. That's why the thing goes on its own in run. However it shouldn't click on and off with proper battery voltage .

[neverwinter]

well since i screwed with the switch i am hoping its the latter!! will find out in a couple hours. fingers - not wires - crossed!

[ELpolacko]

Originally Posted by 31Vicky with a hemi

Wouldn't the pump leak if the WP shaft had that much play to droop down to the crank pulley. Having the belts on would make constant contact at the pulley.


According to the OP the video posted of the car running doesn't exhibit the whine and the clicking noise is not the noise he's concerned about. He also says he will live with the whine. I think we are missing some important info

To the water pump question, I have witnessed two water pump bearings fail without leaking, one of them was a Ford FE the other was a Toyota something-or-other.

With the new information since I was last logged on, this may not be the issue.

The chronology of events does put some things in perspective.

Is this the genesis of all the "noises" and battery drains?

the OEM switch that was in the car broke as i turned the key - not just the tumbler but the connectors inside it broke. so i needed a new switch and got the one from autozone - not a good idea.

[tb33anda3rd]

first, ALWAYS start any electrical diagnoses with a good battery! you're wasting time and energy being fooled by "low voltage gremlins". second, find the proper wiring diagram to wire the switch correctly, i am thinking power to regulator was wired hot all the time. after that is fixed check charging system.

[tb33anda3rd]

ohhh, and also be careful using new cars to jump start. read jump start procedure in you honda owners manual.

[40FordGuy]

Findin' n fixin' ,..... Isn't that half the fun of owning a "seasoned" vehicle ???

Add drivin', and you have it all !!!!

4TTRUK

[neverwinter]

well got back from parts stores. napa and autozone.

1 - battery is good and now fully charged
2 - alternator was junk. was missing both prongs on the back so the only thing connected was the battery. thus an instant voltage drop.
3 - i got the real key switch so will try that later on. the electric th9ing could be a huge coincidence in that i was running the battery down while testing for the power steering hum. just so happened when i swapped key switches.

i'll test it later and post results. now i need to consult the wiring diagram to see what wires go to the alternator since i didnt have but 1 to the battery!

['54Caddy]

Originally Posted by tb33anda3rd

first, ALWAYS start any electrical diagnoses with a good battery! you're wasting time and energy being fooled by "low voltage gremlins". second, find the proper wiring diagram to wire the switch correctly, i am thinking power to regulator was wired hot all the time. after that is fixed check charging system.

tb33anda3rd is right. Charge your battery all the way before you start. If you are not sure about the battery, buy a new one.

Im suprised this hasnt been mentioned on here yet, but check your grounds! You should have a ground strap somewhere from the motor to the body or chassis and one from the chassis to the body. This may be your light issue and your starting issue.

[neverwinter]

SHE RUNS!!!! installed a new alternator and she fired right up. even have low beam now. still need to sort the other lights and such esp brake lights. and when the wife gets home ill have her step on the pedal and ill check the voltage. the battery was 12.56 to start ad stayed between 11.3 and 11.5 while idling. i'd like to see if it goes up with the gas depressed.

the only concern i have is there is only 1 wire to the alternator. not sure if someone did a 1 wire conversion or what but i want to make sure i don kill this alternator or basically repeat the issue. i let the car run for a couple minutes and then tied restarting and it was ok.

[neverwinter]

ok well i am learning more now i think. perhaps my old alt WAS in fact bad but it did not have 2 broken prongs. actually it was an alternator that was used for the 1 wire alt conversion. looked like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHROME-FORD-...ht_3739wt_1344

so now i have a new regular alternator but i think i may need to either get an ext voltage regulator or get a different 1 wire alternator. i didnt know this was a conversion to an alt - i should have but i didnt.

[tb33anda3rd]

if you have the original style alternator the terminals will be marked, and so will the regulator when you buy a new one. you will have to add a few wires between the two.

[57ford/60thunderbird]

all old fords require trans fulid in the ps box says so right on the ps dipsticks up till like 80

[neverwinter]

ok well after way too much reading i will be heading back to napa to get the delco remy 1 wire alternator and install that plus an idiot light at the dash to see if that gets the system charging. if not ill go back again and do the 3 wire system. pain in the ass but i'm learning. i assumed the alt was factory installed and that was not a correct assumption. guy did a 1 wire conversion so i want to try and use what he's already done. of course if that doesnt work then i know i need to redo the alt setup and i will then.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Did you fix the ignition switch ? That's the key (haha) piece to the entire electrical system. Really that's where everything begins.

[neverwinter]

i started to but then realized i now have an alternator not compatible with the system so trying to get all the parts in sync. hopefully get it sorted tonight. even with the OEM key the old battery was not being charged. autozone tried to test the 1 wire alt and said it failed and napa couldnt test it out of the vehicle.

[bobby_Socks]

You are determined I will give you that.

Stay with it and you will get it fixed one piece at a time. There are some very sharp people on this board.

[neverwinter]

i am about to punch the car in its face. hard. multiple times lol. i just replaced the switch. its fine it works. but the car still drains the battery in under 5 mins and wont start again. i replaced the 3 wire alt with a new 1 wire one from napa. there are 2 wires going from somewhere to the alt Battery terminal. 1 is to the bat side of the solenoid. no ide about the other BUT the GEN light on the dash does work as it should - i think. it lights up to start and then goes out when the car runs. also i think part of the whine i heard before was the alternator belt. i loosened it just a bit and the whine is much less severe.

so why the heck is it not charging?id think if i had a major short that it would not allow the car to run at all? argh very very frustrated. do i need to add a wire to the 1st terminal on the Alt to an idiot light in order to excite the alternator?

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Take a look here.
Punching the car isn't smart. You can outsmart this ancient technology.
Punch the car and it will laugh at you while on the way to the hospital.

http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...hreewire.shtml

[48FordFanatic]

[

any ideas on the whine sound?[/QUOTE]

Yeah....have some cheese with it

[bobss396]

Your alternator belt is probably glazed up, loosening it up may reduce the squeal, but doesn't help the charging.

You need to see what type of alternator your car is wired for next. You shouldn't have wires leftover that don't have a home. What is killing the battery, the starter cranking? I would get the rebuilt too just to get it off the list.

Bob

[31Vicky with a hemi]

As mentioned several times already, check for parasitic drain.
I start by pulling all the fuses first, that does two things for me.
The first test tells me where it at generally , fuse related or not. Second it let's me see the circuits stack up.
Other than that this is how to do it.

http://m.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain

You can use a jumper wires on the leads so your meter can go with you.
The other causes are bad diode in alternator, faulty charging system components, shorts , relays stuck open or clicking.
The same clicking you hear in the video.
And bad ignition switches.
Start with the most common

[Engine man]

If you installed a one wire GM alternator, that one wire should go to the positive battery terminal and should be at least 8 gauge wire. These alternators put out 60 amps or more. The original charging system was probably only 30 amp. Easiest place to connect on a Ford is the battery side of the solenoid. With an alternator, it should charge at idle. You might have to rev it up to get it charging but once it is, it should keep charging at idle.
Battery voltage should be just over 12 volts without the engine running and 13.6 or higher with the engine running. The 64 probably originally had a generator and the indicator light was controlled by the voltage regulator. The wires on the alternator are probably connected to the voltage regulator which could be drawing your battery down.

As to your electrical problem, you might have some wires connected together that shouldn't be on the replacement switch. Your diagram and original replacement switch should solve that. The headlight switch should have a thermal switch in it, kind of like a circuit breaker. Connections on the plugs on Ford headlight switches can be a problem too.

Good luck

[greaseyknight]

I hate to say it, but have you checked that the battery is installed correctly, and that it is charged correctly? I reverse charged a batter on an OT truck once it in caused all sorts of weird electrical issues.

[neverwinter]

thanks all. i have checked and recharged the battery and tested it. its good. i have a new alternator and a new solenoid. what i can't tell for certain is if the 1 wire conversion ever did in fact work. i drove the car for a 15 minute or so test drive inc slow traffic and on the highway - before i bought it. i parked the car and 5 minutes later drove it back into the guy's garage. could a full battery allow me to drive for 20 minutes without depleting?

trying to determine if it ever worked or if i somehow killed it. i will try the fuse thing. at this point if i cant sort it today its going to the mechanic. i just dont have the time to go back and forth every day. i will try an idiot light wire and the fuses. after that it goes to someone with experience. ive ttried all i can understand. key switch/battery/alt/solenoid are all new/good. either the 1 wire alt needs a new wire or i have a short somewhere. i could not find any parasitic draw - the only drop i get is when turning on the starter it uses 5 volts. which i would expect ? since it is a big starter for a 390.

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

thanks all. i have checked and recharged the battery and tested it. its good. i have a new alternator and a new solenoid. what i can't tell for certain is if the 1 wire conversion ever did in fact work. i drove the car for a 15 minute or so test drive inc slow traffic and on the highway - before i bought it. i parked the car and 5 minutes later drove it back into the guy's garage. could a full battery allow me to drive for 20 minutes without depleting?

trying to determine if it ever worked or if i somehow killed it. i will try the fuse thing. at this point if i cant sort it today its going to the mechanic. i just dont have the time to go back and forth every day. i will try an idiot light wire and the fuses. after that it goes to someone with experience. ive ttried all i can understand. key switch/battery/alt/solenoid are all new/good. either the 1 wire alt needs a new wire or i have a short somewhere. i could not find any parasitic draw - the only drop i get is when turning on the starter it uses 5 volts. which i would expect ? since it is a big starter for a 390.

To kill a battery so quickly, the battery itself is at fault or you have some enormous drain or short somewhere. The guy who sold you the car probably knew it had issues. You can't judge a starter performance on a usage of voltage. The correct test is done using a VAT tester (hooked up to the car's electrical system) that shows how much current (amps) the starter is drawing.

Bob

[neverwinter]

thanks Bob. when i check volts at the battery i get 12.2. then at the key switch power is also get 12.2. if i dont have the ignition circuit attached (which seems to be the charging circuit too?) and i turn on the key to either ACC or IGN i get about 11.9. the issue def happens when the ignition circuit is hooked up. now that i have essentially replaced everything in the charging circuit inc fuses, alternator, solenoid and key switch i would think i have some crazy short somehwere. the wiring is a rats nest as the previous owner def did some "customizing". ill try the last 2 options i have and then its off to the mechanic. if he looks at it and says "whoa" then its new wiring harness time. the stuff that the PO did is an absolute mess. all wires up to the lights are the same blue and wrapped in crazy bundles. ugh. it is what is. it will get sorted and will be fun. just ticks me off as i wanted a driver now and have to sell things in order to do this. oh well thereare worse things.

[neverwinter]

ok well just went and looked again and maybe there is an ext voltage regulator still attached. is this it? i cant understand why he would have a 1 wire alternator AND an external voltage reg? i just made sure the thing was grounded and still nada. jumped the car again and as soon as i took the neg cable off it died.

[neverwinter]

so i looked at the wiring diagram and that does appear to be an ext regulator left over from the generator days. why the heck does he have a 1 wire internally regulated alternator AND a ext regulator? if the ext one is bad could that be the issue? hell everything else has been replaced might as well do that too lol. ugh

[b-body-bob]

Is the external regulator connected to anything? If so, what?

You need an experienced helper who has been there done that and can cut through the distractions to get to the root of the problem. Forums help, but nothing trumps a guy in the garage who has the knowledge.

[neverwinter]

absolutely b-body, only prob is i dont know anyone!! so that leaves me and forums lol. there are tons of wires hooked to the regulator which seems very odd to me since he had an internally regulated alternator. i may go back to napa and go back to the 3 wire alt, get a new regulator and start from there. 9i dont mind replacing the bits to know they are all new and in working order. i know thats not real mechanic-ing but to me its worth the 20$ to know the part is good.

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

thanks Bob. when i check volts at the battery i get 12.2. then at the key switch power is also get 12.2. if i dont have the ignition circuit attached (which seems to be the charging circuit too?) and i turn on the key to either ACC or IGN i get about 11.9. the issue def happens when the ignition circuit is hooked up. now that i have essentially replaced everything in the charging circuit inc fuses, alternator, solenoid and key switch i would think i have some crazy short somehwere. the wiring is a rats nest as the previous owner def did some "customizing". ill try the last 2 options i have and then its off to the mechanic. if he looks at it and says "whoa" then its new wiring harness time. the stuff that the PO did is an absolute mess. all wires up to the lights are the same blue and wrapped in crazy bundles. ugh. it is what is. it will get sorted and will be fun. just ticks me off as i wanted a driver now and have to sell things in order to do this. oh well thereare worse things.

Stop farting around checking voltage across the battery terminals, all that tells you is the battery condition. Having the old generator-based voltage regulator... is it hooked up to anything? That will not play at all with an alternator.

Do you have a chassis schematic for the car? That will be a big help, check your local library. I have a set of manuals for your car, PM me if you need anything scanned to a PDF file. I'd think of comparing the '64 and '65 Ford schematics since the '65 came with an alternator and voltage regulator.

Bob

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

absolutely b-body, only prob is i dont know anyone!! so that leaves me and forums lol. there are tons of wires hooked to the regulator which seems very odd to me since he had an internally regulated alternator. i may go back to napa and go back to the 3 wire alt, get a new regulator and start from there. 9i dont mind replacing the bits to know they are all new and in working order. i know thats not real mechanic-ing but to me its worth the 20$ to know the part is good.

With a schematic in hand, verify that the generator wiring is all there, the easiest thing may to go back to the generator system. I see this running into some serious change if you need to take it anywhere.

I just googled this, "1964 ford galaxie charging schematic" and came up with a shitload of good information. Everything you need to know is there.

Bob

[neverwinter]

thanks Bob. i have been poring over all of those images. the problem is 2-fold. 1 i am not very good with wiring and 2- i have NO idea if what the PO did ever worked and what he did to do the alt conversion. from what i have been reading there is no reason to have the int regulator and an external yet he did and he has many wires going to the ext reg. on top of that the wires to the ext reg are all the same color and are def not stock items. so essentially trying to decipher what he did to then see if he did it right and if he did then determine what the issue is. i really am trying to sort it on my own but at some point i may need to throw in the towel and send it off.

[harpo1313]

the way that wiring mess looks,i think its best to get the file from Bobss and start from there.if you have the wiring diagram theres no guessing as to whats going on and what goes where.any boneyard up there with old stuff ,might be able to find an engine harness .the diagram will confirm your ign wiring too.take it to a mecanic could empty your wallet quick ,specialy if hes not an older guy that knows his way around an old ford.myself ,i would order a harness from a vendor here and rewire the whole car,and its no
t that dificult,just time consuming.after all, you are keeping the car right?
where about in boston are you at?

[Bigchuck]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

ok well just went and looked again and maybe there is an ext voltage regulator still attached. is this it? i cant understand why he would have a 1 wire alternator AND an external voltage reg? i just made sure the thing was grounded and still nada. jumped the car again and as soon as i took the neg cable off it died.

Whoa! that wiring looks like a nightmare! i suspect ther rest of the car is similar because if the previous owner did that, no telling what he did to the rest of the car. The wiring on a car like yours is not vastly complicated but, can be confusing if you are unfamiliar with all that stuff. That is a voltage regulator in your pic. If you have an alternator the wiring attached to the regulator probably feeds other circuits. My advice? Start over. Re-wire the start and charging circuits. Buy a book on how to wire your car or, find someone to help you. Find a REAL auto electric shop to test your starter and alternator not Autoclown.Those machines they hook up to are not really doing all that much. Electrical gremlins can be hard to chase down even by pros when someone has done a botched wiring job. Good luck, hope you get it all sorted out.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

You have experienced people here trying to tell you what to do.
If your mechanic is worth his salt and honest , he will do what's been said here.

Electrical problems are more similar to fishing or hunting vs going to the grocery store - there's no telling where it is or how long it will take to find it, but you can quickly determine what system or circuit is causing trouble. That narrows your focus to productive and effective elimination.

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

thanks Bob. i have been poring over all of those images. the problem is 2-fold. 1 i am not very good with wiring and 2- i have NO idea if what the PO did ever worked and what he did to do the alt conversion. from what i have been reading there is no reason to have the int regulator and an external yet he did and he has many wires going to the ext reg. on top of that the wires to the ext reg are all the same color and are def not stock items. so essentially trying to decipher what he did to then see if he did it right and if he did then determine what the issue is. i really am trying to sort it on my own but at some point i may need to throw in the towel and send it off.

I would blow up the schematic(s) as big as possible. Assign "tag" numbers to all the wire ends on the schematic. Make up some neat masking tape numbered tags and physically tag every connection under the hood. Note the colors, which may be a help... or not depending on what you have there.

There's not that many wires involved, you can do it!

Bob

[brad chevy]

Surely there has to be some Hamb members in Boston that could give you a hand. At least try to find a shop that works on older cars. You admit you are in over your head,but just changing parts is throwing money away and crossing your fingers. Hope doesn't fix the problem.

[Bigchuck]

Something else to consider is that you do not have to wire the start/charge circuits back to stock. There are better ways. Some vehicles route the charge circuit through an ammeter or , use an ammeter to feed the headlight switch and ignition switch.
That works, but is not ideal. It is also a good idea to add relays for the headlights to keep all that current from flowing through the switch. As for an alternator- a one wire will not charge at idle, it is easy to install, but a 3 wire is not hard to wire and will charge at idle.
Use good, automotive grade wire, not that cheap-ass vinyl covered crap you get at the local parts store Here is one source.

http://www.wiringproducts.com/?gclid...FeSMTAodx1gAQA

[neverwinter]

thank you again all. i do trust my mechanic and i am actually working with a cool hot rod shop doing their website. i think id like to rewire the car. the guy had a big subwoofer in the trunk and used cheap home wires to et that rigged. all the bulbs etc are sorta dangling behind the dash. i found a US made 14 circuit setup for 230. i think this may be the best solution. it really is a mess in there.

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

thank you again all. i do trust my mechanic and i am actually working with a cool hot rod shop doing their website. i think id like to rewire the car. the guy had a big subwoofer in the trunk and used cheap home wires to et that rigged. all the bulbs etc are sorta dangling behind the dash. i found a US made 14 circuit setup for 230. i think this may be the best solution. it really is a mess in there.

There are engine feed harnesses available. I dug around and came up with a part number, C4AZ-14289-A. Of course verify it with someone like Dennis Carpenter or Dearborn Classics first. You might want to join a Galaxie forum and ask around there.

If your mechanic knows his $hit... he should be able to adapt it over to an alternator.

Bob

[62rebel]

a sixties era Ford is one of the simplest damn cars in the world to run. there's not a system on that type car that can't be mastered with a little time and logic.

[ottoman]

Let an experienced guy/shop handle this wiring issue, all you do is drive your self crazy trying to figure it out with out a very good understanding of the systems.
First thing that jumped out at me is at 12.2 volts your battery needs a charge... 12.6 volts is the standard voltage spec for a fully charged 12v lead acid battery at rest. I got the 12.2 volts from your post. Trying to trouble shoot with a low battery can really mess with you!!

[46mercury]

Originally Posted by ottoman

First thing that jumped out at me is at 12.2 volts your battery needs a charge... 12.6 volts is the standard voltage spec for a fully charged 12v lead acid battery at rest. I got the 12.2 volts from your post. Trying to trouble shoot with a low battery can really mess with you!!

Most of mine chack 13+ volts. In my experience if it checks 12v or just below it's no good.

Good luck on the car. Wish I had my old '64 Galaxie back!

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by ottoman

Let an experienced guy/shop handle this wiring issue, all you do is drive your self crazy trying to figure it out with out a very good understanding of the systems.
First thing that jumped out at me is at 12.2 volts your battery needs a charge... 12.6 volts is the standard voltage spec for a fully charged 12v lead acid battery at rest. I got the 12.2 volts from your post. Trying to trouble shoot with a low battery can really mess with you!!

12.2 volts is not that horrible, yes it should be a bit higher but he has a huge systemic problem, so keeping the battery 100% up there isn't happening. Especially with the unknown heavy amperage draw he's experiencing.

Bob

[neverwinter]

thanks again all. looks like i am going to do a barter with the local hot rod shop. they need a website. i need the car rewired. pretty much the same costs on both ends and we both make good with no cash out of pocket. i am just tired of chasing things i am just not good at. ill try again a bit today - left the battery on a tender all night to make sure it gets a good even charge. spoke to the guy who sold it to me who said he knew the alt was good and that he forgot to say that a dome light stayed on and would draw the batt down. so i have that alt back and a new 3 wire 1 from with a new ext voltage regulator. ill do my best but if i cant sort it today it goes to the hot rod shop. i ant to drive something before its winter here lol.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Its kind of hard , well nearly impossible to miss the dome light stuck on - no ?

[neverwinter]

heh its not the dome light. i was typing while my 9month old was running around at 6am lol. i meant an interior bulb somewhere behind the dash - i dont even think i HAVE a dome light lol. but yes it would be pretty difficult to miss it if it was on lol!

[Ebbsspeed]

After seeing the picture of the wiring near the old regulator, I'd bet my 401K that the previous owner had the same issues, and couldn't figure it out, so his only alternative was to put a good charge on the battery and sell the car, knowing that it would run for a while on a fully charged battery. Kudos to you for your persistence in trying to figure it out, and even though you didn't get it repaired, you probably learned some stuff, right? That's how we all learn. Post the link to the hot rod shop you're doing a web site for, we'd like to see some of your work.

[neverwinter]

oh my goodness i am going to lose my mind. so before when i got the car to start it wouldnt shut off until i pushed the shifter into the PARK position and sorta tapped it just a little. I'd guess something to do with the neutral safety switch - tho the car will not start in anything BUT Park and Nuetral so i assumed the switch was still good.

Now i go to start it and it does right away, idles good. went to move it out of the driveway and it dies instantly in Reverse AND drive. But it shuts off the way it seems like it should - as soon as the trans feels like its in Park. It will still start in Park and Nutral only though. this is driving (no bad pun intended) me nuts. oof.

[tb33anda3rd]

Originally Posted by neverwinter

oh my goodness i am going to lose my mind. so before when i got the car to start it wouldnt shut off until i pushed the shifter into the PARK position and sorta tapped it just a little. I'd guess something to do with the neutral safety switch - tho the car will not start in anything BUT Park and Nuetral so i assumed the switch was still good.

Now i go to start it and it does right away, idles good. went to move it out of the driveway and it dies instantly in Reverse AND drive. But it shuts off the way it seems like it should - as soon as the trans feels like its in Park. It will still start in Park and Nutral only though. this is driving (no bad pun intended) me nuts. oof.

good thing it is going to be worked on, run a wire right from the battery positive to the positive terminal on the coil and drive it to them quick. you will have to pull the wire to shut it off.

[neverwinter]

yeah this is insane
i am at a complete loss. The ONLY thing i changed now is the key switch because the one in there broke. the same wires go the same terminals, etc. i give up. i'm done. the stress and hassle isnt worth it. chasing ghosts. i am not the most patient person and i have tried to be with this thing but right now i am about to lose it. it frigging ran and drove when i got it. all that changed was the damn key broke and i replaced it with an OEM one.

[refried confusion]

)_______

[neverwinter]

well i didnt look over all the wiring too thoroughly - my fault - as i was able to take the car o n a 20 minute test drive inc thru town and on the highway. brake lights worked, headlights, etc. literally i think i and my driveway are cursed lol. my bet is either the whole thing shat itself or there is a very simple fix that someone with more knowledge - ok ANY - than i would be able to sort out. i paid 4k for it.

[1964countrysedan]

I still think you got a great car and now know you got a good deal. All of your current problems fall into the "very minor and cheap" category in my book.

I think you are looking at too many things at once.

And remember that you did drive the car 20 trouble free miles before purchase. Many of us did not have that luxury.

[TheEngineer]

Every old Ford I've ever had (all trucks) had the red wire going to ground and the black going to positive at the battery when I purchased it. This is probably due to the lengths of wire available at Autozone. Is it possible that you have the same situation? I don't think you would ever get it started with the battery hooked up backwards but if you did, that would kill the battery quick.

Trace your negative wire off the battery and make sure it goes to a ground (usually on the block).

[Engine man]

Originally Posted by Bigchuck

Something else to consider is that you do not have to wire the start/charge circuits back to stock. There are better ways. Some vehicles route the charge circuit through an ammeter or , use an ammeter to feed the headlight switch and ignition switch.
That works, but is not ideal. It is also a good idea to add relays for the headlights to keep all that current from flowing through the switch. As for an alternator- a one wire will not charge at idle, it is easy to install, but a 3 wire is not hard to wire and will charge at idle.
Use good, automotive grade wire, not that cheap-ass vinyl covered crap you get at the local parts store Here is one source.

http://www.wiringproducts.com/?gclid...FeSMTAodx1gAQA

One wire alternators will certainly charge at idle. Depending on the internal regulator used, when the engine is started, you might have to rev it up a little to get it to charge but once it starts charging, it will charge at idle speeds. The OEM external voltage regulator won't work well with an alternator because the generator current output was 1/2 or less than what the alternator output will be and that current will overheat the regulator.

With a one wire alternator, all you need to do is connect that one wire to a battery positive connection with a large wire. I also like to put fuses or circuit breakers in the circuit in case the alternator shorts out internally.

If your battery voltage is dropping below 10.5 when trying to start the engine, something is drawing a huge amount of current or the battery is bad. since the battery has been tested and you were able to start it using a second battery, I suspect the starter.

[62rebel]

in cases like this, it's almost preferable to take EVERYTHING back to as close to factory as possible and work your way forward. first, you need a repair manual that has wiring diagrams in it. NOT a god damn Haynes or Chilton manual.. a real Ford repair manual. then establish the working condition of every dumbass thing the PO did to it. these were dead reliable cars from new; very little if ANY reason to add the latest fads from Hot Rod magazine just to "have them". my '60 Starliner had a 390 and ran a generator with NO issues... likewise my '63 sportsroof and several Falcons. trying to ditch these problems by throwing money into an aftermarket wiring harness is not likely to eliminate them. first; clear up the starting circuit issues. then clear up the charging circuit, which is PROBABLY the constant vltage regulator dying behind the instrument panel. by then, your lighting issues will go away, more than likely, as you'll have been through the harness twice by then.
troubleshooting is a process of eliminating faults one by one.

[bobss396]

Posts #118 & 119 are dead on. The starter does sound like its dragging and is a cheap fix that will help other issues, like keeping the battery up. I like the idea of sorting out what is there first. You CAN do an aftermarket harness, but virtually every circuit will have to be traced and matched up, wire-for-wire and expect more than a few comprimises.

Bob

[JAKE'S-Pumpkinella54]

Stop adding issues... Work it out then rewire. Fords are just fancy lawn mowers..

[61 Fairlane]

The brake light problem may be related to your other electrical issues. But old Fords have a brake light switch screwed into the master cylinder. I think up until 1964. My 65 has the one mounted on the pedal. Anyway, the ones that screw onto the master cylinder are known to go bad. If you choose to replace it, a cheap one will run you about $4.00 and usually will only last a couple of years. Go to NAPA and spend the big bucks, about $8 or $9 dollars, and get a good one. It may be something as simple as that for the brake lights. Good luck, Im pulling for you

[brad chevy]

Load it up take it to them before you damage more stuff. Can we see a picture of this car you gave $4000 for and expected it to be without any issues ?

[shoprat]

Seems like the problems have grown quite a bit. Can't be all this bad if you
took it for a test drive and all was well

[neverwinter]

hi all, i appreciate the feedback. i am on vacation this week so i cant do any more damage than i prob already have. i am by no means any sort of good mechanic and i know enough to be dangerous. i have built a few bikes from scratch and done some basic wiring on other vehicles so i sorta get some of the concepts. kind of.

with this car it did run and drive fine. i cant say if it ever charged only because the battery that came with the car went, and after i put a new one in the key switch broke. after that i simply loosened the pow steering pump and removed the belt to see if i could find the cause of the whine coming from the engine. that's it! i put it back and went to start it and the whole solenoid clicking thing started.

at this point the car is back to the same way i got it - same alternator, everything rigged up. the only thing that is different is i replaced the broken key switch with a new OEM one from napa.

i am sure it is a simple issue that is eluding me. prob a short or something somewhere. i know it will get sorted. again i do appreciate everyone's help.

[neverwinter]

well looks like the neutral safety switch went the way of the dodo bird. i decided to try and bypass it just to see if that was the issue and the car runs again. so that's good. considering the amount of wiring junk thats everywhere i wll be calling the hot rod shop to have them do a full rewire in exchange for a website. ill post the site when i am done. hope this does it as i really am looking forward to driving it. just have no idea how i fubar'd it even more as i know at least the brake lights and such were working when i got it. i cant be sure of the reverse or signals as i idiotically didnt check.