Problem mounting Chevy eng. to ford trans using a motor plate

[F-6Garagerat]

The throw out bearing is pressed onto the bearing retainer? In what world, where a bearing has to slide back and forth could it possibly be "pressed" on?

[Tantank49]

I ran into the same issue putting a small block in a 41 Ford. My problem turned out to be flywheel thickness. I ended up using a 6 cylinder flywheel from a 1966 Chevy II. It was a bit too thick but a quick shave at the machine shop cured it.

[F&J]

Originally Posted by F-6Garagerat

The throw out bearing is pressed onto the bearing retainer? In what world, where a bearing has to slide back and forth could it possibly be "pressed" on?

Look at the Ford TOB assembly. It has a bearing unit, pressed onto a cast iron "hub". The hub is what slides on the candlestick.

Back when, a Ford TOB "bearing" was available without buying the whole ass'y. You just press the bearing off of the iron hub, AKA "holder", and press a new one on. These are still available repro, as I had done several Model A's last year.


My Olds rocket ass'ys are built the same way; you could either buy just the bearing, or a complete "unit" that has the hub already attached.




Ok, back to the problem for the original poster; John Evans is an old time rodder and a real machinist with all the tools, but he told me he prefers phone over pm's/internet. See if he has a Ford TOB "ass'y" there, and maybe he can look it over to see what type of mods could be done to fix that 3/8" error. Maybe a new holder, or maybe machine the old iron hub, to accept an extension to shove the bearing face forward 3/8 to 1/2". I'm not saying he will do the work for you, but he might be able to tell you the best way to fix this. He helped me with a lathe problem by phone.

[meengrinch]

Thanks for the replies..I understand about the internal groove on the tranny nose when the pedal is depressed now it slips off the first machined surface into the middle groove. And the t/o bearing twists..the groove I believe is there to hold lubricant for the sliding action of the bearing and retainer.....I am going to look into making or machining a new tranny nose without that groove and maybe a little big longer...This is going in a restored race car and it's track time will be limited plus new age lubricants will help a lot.....I appreciate your time to help me with this problem......to f-6 this release brg does press on a retainer but the part that contacts the fingers does rotate......if and when I get this fixed I'll let you all know.....jim

[F-6Garagerat]

F&J, sorry. I thought you meant it was pressed onto the "candlestick" . Now I understand what you mean. The bearing and the collar that the trans fork goes into are actually 2 seperate pieces. I stand corrected.

[oj]

Sorry about the confusion about the ball, when i read ford tranny i missed the part about being an early one that has a fixed crossshaft - oops! My post may not have been productive but at least folks had fun with the 'candlestick'.

[Mr48chev]

Well, a Candle stick on the East coast is a bearing retainer in most of the rest of the country if that clears that up.

I'm with John in thinking that a spacer to move the bearing retainer (candlestick) out the same distance as the thickness of the adapter would cure things.

That still won't move the pivot point of the shaft for the clutch for forward though. Will there be enough travel to push the throw out bearing that extra distance?

The ideal setup would be a Chevy flywheel that was 3/8 inch thicker to take up the space of the adapter. That could probably be done on an aluminum flywheel with a steel wear surface but it would take a talented machinist.

[F&J]

"candle stick" probably came from the Cad/LaSalle retainers, because the base is not bolt on type, and the base diameter is very small....and really does look like one

[JohnEvans]

Yep a simple spacer on the nose of the bearing carrier to move the bearing forward would solve the problem. Doing this will keep the carrier in the corect relationship to the T/O fork.

[meengrinch]

Latest update......tomorrow my favorite machinest is stopping by to take a look. Temp. Plans are to take the old nose off the front of the tranny and cut off the tube part where the brg retaier slides on and weld on a replacement part but about a 1/2" longer this should prevent the bearing assy. From dropping off and twisting......will let you know

[meengrinch]

John when you do this the t/o bearing goes of the end and twists because of the grooved inner area..

[Mr48chev]

I don't think that the groove in the bushing will cause it to turn as it is a channel for grease and shouldn't have any affect that way.

[F&J]

Originally Posted by meengrinch

John when you do this the t/o bearing goes of the end and twists because of the grooved inner area..

I think some us were not on the same page. Me, I thought your problem was that the bearing could not get enough mechancal travel distance to disengage the disc.

Now, it sounds like your bearing could travel enough, but the bearing is sliding cockeyed as it starts to go beyond the end of the guide tube?

[F&J]

Originally Posted by Mr48chev

I don't think that the groove in the bushing will cause it to turn as it is a channel for grease and shouldn't have any affect that way.

If I follow, he has a wide groove in the cast iron bearing ass'y, so in reality, there are two wearing/guiding surfaces along the length...inside that ass'y. But it sounds like the forward wear surface inside the bore, goes out beyond the end of the guide tube, and as soon as it does, the ass'y will get cockeyed, because it just lost the forward surface to help keep it straight.

Hard time explaining without a pic; but the groove could be 1/3rd of the distance in the ID bore length, then 1/3 wearing surface at either side of the groove. As the front wear surface of the ass'y goes further, and goes off the tube, you now only have the rear 1/3rd of the surface in the bore.

[meengrinch]

I believe you have the problem. That's why we are going to extend the tube to prevent the twisting action. When it twists it will not return on the tube

[Engine man]

GM makes several different length throw out bearing assemblies if they would fit the retainer.

[JohnEvans]

Originally Posted by meengrinch

John when you do this the t/o bearing goes of the end and twists because of the grooved inner area..

Yes I follow you ,but by making the T/O body longer at the bearing end it will then not move as far forward and fall off the end of the trans bearing retainer. Also by doing it this way you retain the stock release fork to T/O bearing geometry.

[meengrinch]

I am actually making the bearing retainer tube longer. Not the t/0 assy.....

[DICK SPADARO]

Here is a simple solution for curing the issue. The distance you need to make up for everything to match up is 3/8", machine up a 3/8" spacer slightly smaller in OD and with an ID to pass over the input shaft retainer collar. Or better yet use the face of an old throw out bearing turned down to the 3/8" thickness. You are a good fabricator so tac weld this spacer ring to the face of the new throw out bearing to make up the distance, This is not a constant run unit and for the couple seconds that the bearing comes in contact with the pressure plate fingers it will work fine.

[meengrinch]

Well the problem still lives.....a recap.. I have a 350 engine with a alum flywheel ..a 3/8" thick motor plate...a Chevy/ford adapter ...my clutch assembly is a 3 finger p/p...a 10 1/2" disc a stock t/o brg ...all put together it has about 1" of clearance between the face of the t/o and the tips of the fingers....which is way too much. When I depress the clutch pedal the travel at the t/o to the fingers makes the brg retainer almost fall off .........I made a 3/8" spacer behind and it still left too much of a gap.....when all bolted up there is too much clutch pedal travel before it makes contact with the pressure plate fingers.........you gotta love these puzzles...."thanks to all that have replied. Jim