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Old 09-11-2005, 10:52 AM   #1
tommy
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Default Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

This has nothing to do with your bank roll. I'm not comparing wallets so don't start.

If you are building your first hot rod, by all means use the KISS system...Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't try to build a Hilborn injected Hemi your first time out. That doesn't mean you have to build a kit car with everything a bolt on mailorder solution which is the expensive way to build a hot rod.

I saw a model A yesterday at the show with the proverbial electric fan. I hate electric fans. It was held in place by 4 through the radiator core plastic retainers...4 3/4" plastic blocks on the front of an A grill...cheap? yeah, easy? yeah cool...I don't think so!



How did the oldtimers cool a potent Olds in a channeled roadster before electric fans? Here's one guys solution. It's probably hard on water pump bearings but it doesn't say cheap and easy. It doesn't say store bought expensive either.

I'm not trying to insult the guys with one wire alternators and electric fans on their "period" hot rods. (I might tease them a little) What I'm trying to pass on is a little challenge. Plan out the build so that an electric fan isn't the only easy solution. Take the time to learn a little bit about generators and mount that voltage regulator proudly on the firewall. Ever see a billetmobile with a V/reg.? One wire alternators were made for billetmobiles not hot rods.



You should be thinking about what kind of turn signals you are going to run while you are still mocking up the overall design with 2x4s and cinder blocks. Don't wait until a week before the maiden voyage and say oh shit let me bolt on those Taiwan pieces of shit. These are probably reproduction cowl lights but I admire the planning put into their use.(not money... planning) There is a clever well thought out access door in the boxing plate that was engineered when the frame was being built.

I hope you all take this as a challenge to put more thought and effort into your hot rod rather than take the cheap and easy way out. Some early planning using old parts that are available to you can save you lots of cash for that hot rod.

Those cool rat rods that jump out of the crowd with all the old parts with lots of patina, are all thought out to the tee as they are going together. The ones that are slapped together show it. The cool ones have all the subtleties of a well executed plan. It's no accident of fate.

We used to have an expression...quick and dirty. It meant it was a sell out to well thought out and clean.

I hope this doesn't start a shit storm but the next time you go to bolt a part on your car ask yourself does this make my car, therefore me, look cheap and easy? I don't want to piss people off just spark some thought and maybe some cool well planned rides.

If it works maybe we'll get more questions on how did you solve a problem instead of who has the web address of the "me too" parts store.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

I love it when I jump on the HAMB and find some one who can put my thoughts into words! (I really bombed english)
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

I agree to some extent. I can see using certain items for the sake of reliability when your car is a true drive, and isn't that what it's really all about?

However, for me being the cheap bastard I am I HATE to spend money for something that isn't exactly what I want. Plus, I really prefer to build things myself. I love the challenge of tackling a problem, engineering a solution and then producing it. Sure, sometimes I want to throw the whole thing in the trash and buy the easy way out, but when the job is complete and the solution works as planned you can't beat that feeling of accomplishment. And, I've gained some knowledge that i didn't have before and nobody can take that away from me.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:58 AM   #4
C9
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Good one Tommy.

Reason a lot of the quick and dirty stuff gets done is cuz it's quick and easy.
A lot of it seems to happen near the end of the build.

Surprising too, how many electric fans are seen on cars that have plenty of room for a mechanical fan.


Not patting myself on the back here, but I went to the trouble to remove the Deuce Factory frame crossmembers and build new ones solely to get the engine back a couple of inches so I could use a mechanical fan in my 32.

It was a lotta work, but worth it.


Looks like the Olds engine in the Model A pictured could have gone into the firewall 2-4" and there would have been plenty of room for a mechanical fan.
I realize a couple of things could be going on here . . . back in the day cutting into the firewall was not commonly done on street driven cars.
Drag race cars, another story entirely.

Some think that cutting into the firewall impinges on footroom.
Not so.
I've tried on DRD57's chopped A coupe and there's plenty of legroom behind the wheelbarrow pan firewall.
The same is true for my 31 roadster with 4" firewall recess.
In fact the seat could go back another 3-4" without problems.

Still thinking about how to do the turn signals though....
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Old 09-11-2005, 12:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9
Good one Tommy.

Reason a lot of the quick and dirty stuff gets done is cuz it's quick and easy.
I am forced to aggree with you guys because of all things ,exhaust issues. Doing exhaust work everyday I looked at my rod and decieded to go the easy way out and put on sprint headers[ store bought ] Of course now that there on there they dont really look right. I`m pissed becuase I was gonna go with a lakepipe, but nobody had a kit for 302 Ford that I could find. I could have bought the flange kit & fabbed up the rest, BUT NO!!! I had go the EASYWAY. They say hind-sight is 20/20, but I`m not done yet & have come to the conclusion that lake pipes are the shit, no matter how much trouble they will be to build, I`m a gonna have em!
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Old 09-11-2005, 12:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

cheap and easy?

why does promiscuity always get a bad rap?
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

There are so many different variables that dictate what you can do and what you have to do. Heavily channeled Model A's are different than a '32 hiboy or a dedicated dry lakes car. I have a model A that is channeled and the frame stepped in front and z'd in the back. Granted, there may not have been a lot of channeled cars or z'd frames in the 40's(which is the period I really like) and there definitely weren't electric fans. But with my setup, cutting into the firewall and recessing it to move the motor back would have made using my stock gas tank impossible. I could have used a stock fan BUT I would have had to move the radiator WAY forward, and I think that looks worse than an electric fan. As it sits, I had to move it forward 2.5 inches just to get the electric to fit! My point being: Some people have to work with what they have to achieve their ultimate goal...some have money, some have technical expertise and can weld and build, some have both, some have neither! I think the more cars you build, the more patient and deliberate you get...and you show your uniqueness and ingenuity in the stuff that matters.
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Old 09-11-2005, 02:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Turnsignals? If I had turn signals I wouldn't have any use for my left arm.
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Old 09-11-2005, 02:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BELLM
Turnsignals? If I had turn signals I wouldn't have any use for my left arm.
Hold the wheel while you shift?

I agree with you Tommy. All the way. It's not just about electric fans and turn signals, it's about having a well thought out car. Sometimes it's a little too easy to open the catalog.

Even if your working on a tight budget sometimes you gotta save up and bite the bullet. Whether that means buy the better part, or have something fabricated, better judgement and quality will outshine bigger bank accounts when the day is through. All the money in the world won't build the best car if you don't have a clear vision.

Friends and the Hamb are a good resource too. Sometimes you need a kick in the head and have someone ask WTF are you doing? And hopefully, provide a better solution or idea.
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Old 09-11-2005, 03:43 PM   #10
tommy
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Actually the issue with the Olds fan was elevation not front to back room. The grill was lowered for the right look.(imaginary hood line) On the water pump, the fan would be above the radiator and grill. Channeling does add issues. The fan elevation was determined and belts and pulleys were engineered to make it work.
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Old 09-11-2005, 04:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Not on the same subject but Hey Tommy, I saw you in 2 count em TWO magazines this month!!! Brought back some memories of what a fun time the Jalopy Showdown was. Can't wait till next year!
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Old 09-11-2005, 06:33 PM   #12
tommy
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by racer5c
Not on the same subject but Hey Tommy, I saw you in 2 count em TWO magazines this month!!! Brought back some memories of what a fun time the Jalopy Showdown was. Can't wait till next year!
Actually the Deuce has been in 4 different mags in the last 4 months...but who's counting. I'll be signing autographs next year, but because you knew me "before" I'll give you the discount rate.

It's a good thing I didn't wash it!

I'm looking forward to it. Maybe I can do a little better now that I've got the feel of the car.
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Old 09-11-2005, 08:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

I really like your car...one of my favorites.

Adam
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

I been reading all the post on this thread and yeah I used a 1 wire alternator and an electric fan on my 40 ford. But after cramming a 392 hemi between the frame rails of a forty ford I could not fit a mechanical fan in the 3 3/4 inch space to the radiator. Sometimes the only solution is an electrical fan if the main reason is getting the drivetrain you want in the car and being able to drive it. Sometimes the electric fan and alternator are the only solutions not just the easiest. I'm still having one hell of a time getting the exhaust in this car it is supposed to go thru the holes in the cross members but that can't be done because of the brake booster and lines on the driver's side so i'm a little low right now.
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Great advice on the lights......

I was just thinking the other day......"If I don't buy the headlights with the turn signal built in (guides??) what the heck am I going to use......that doesn't look like a 70's motorcycle turn signal?"
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tford
I'm still having one hell of a time getting the exhaust in this car it is supposed to go thru the holes in the cross members but that can't be done because of the brake booster and lines on the driver's side so i'm a little low right now.
Is there anyway you can post a pic from underside the car ? I had just recently done a 36 Ford from the headers back. Maybe I, or some of the other guys can give you some advise? I mean isn`t that what this board is for?
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Ok I agree with some of that but... The eletric fans when people live in a hot climate sometimes they are necissary! Cuz without em my 50 ford would overheat fast! I drive the crap outta mine daily but for relibity purposes I need a letric' fan on mine it keeps it 10-15 degrees cooler...
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by muffman58
Is there anyway you can post a pic from underside the car ? I had just recently done a 36 Ford from the headers back. Maybe I, or some of the other guys can give you some advise? I mean isn`t that what this board is for?
I can shoot some pictures tomorrow and post. Right now i'm below the frame with the pipes and mufflers. I built this exhaust myself but really need to do this thing right so I'm not scraping on driveways. Any ideals would be welcome.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tford
I can shoot some pictures tomorrow and post. Right now i'm below the frame with the pipes and mufflers. I built this exhaust myself but really need to do this thing right so I'm not scraping on driveways. Any ideals would be welcome.
4t, might want to start a new thread, get more exposure, but we're hear to help.

I notice everyone steps up to defend their electric fan. I don't think tommy is knocking electric fans, it's deeper than that. It's about cutting corners, it's about thinking ahead and spending a little more time than normal, taking the care to make parts fit together as if they were meant to. Some guys make it look easy, some guys never get it right.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:47 PM   #20
bills model a
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Default Re: Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

i hear CHEAP AND EASY
IN FACT ITS YELLIN AT ME
but is way cool as well
it all depends what your goin for
im goin for a driver and a 1 wire alternator is in the plans
no doubt
as well as a smallblock chevy
just call me cheap and easy

Last edited by bills model a; 09-12-2005 at 09:09 AM.
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