Welcome to the THE H.A.M.B. forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Go Back   THE H.A.M.B. > General Discussion > Hokey Ass Message Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #1
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Tony and I have thrown a few photos of this on the thread titled ""Tease". Here's all the updates on the project from the beginning until now.

Enjoy.



We're working on this project for Tony Miller. His vision began with the notion that the 40 Ford convertible is pretty
much the ugly duckling of that model year (apologies to lovers of 40 Ford convertibles) and it would be much improved if it
had the roof and side glass from a 46 convertible. He collaborated with a photoshop artist and came up with the rendering
above.

Since 40 and 46 convertibles are rather expensive cars to be chopping up that was the end of the exercise until someone
suggested that the effect could be accomplished by putting a Carson style top on a coupe. About that time a coupe project
car became available for a reasonable price and the project progressed from paper to steel.

In the process of working on the rendering Tony added several other modifications to improve the overall profile, stance
and proportions of the car. These include a two and a half inch channel, moving the front wheels and wheel wells forward
two inches, lowering the car, radiusing the fenders, chopping the windshield, and a few other changes along the way.


This is what we started with. It came with a truckload of parts that included all the fenders, doors, hood, truck lid,
most of the other bits to make a 40 Ford coupe. It had a 302/C4 engine/trans combo and already had a M2 front suspension
installed as well as parallel leaf springs in the rear. We'll keep the suspension with some modifications to get it long
and low.

We'll start by cutting all this M2 stuff off the front of the frame so we can mount it higher to get the car lower and
farther forward to lengthen the wheelbase.

Here the top parts are removed

The crossmember is loose, notched and is positioned two inches higher and two inches forward

The top of the cross member is trimmed flush with the top of the frame

The top pieces are re-positioned two inches higher

Gussets are added to the top pieces

The suspension pieces were test fit for clearance

The bottom of the frame needed notches for lower control arm clearance as well as clearance for the steering rack

Now the lower control arm has complete travel

More gussets were added and the whole thing welded up

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:12 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #2
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


Back on its wheels

To get the back in the weeds we moved the leaf springs inboard of the frame rails and then built a generous "C" notch in
the frame. Here's the beginning pattern for the notch

I didn't take pictures as we built these front spring hangers to mount the springs inboard of the frame

The rear crossmember that mounts the shackles at the rear of the leaf springs

A shock absorber cross member was added between the notches on the frame

The shocks are replaced with straps during construction to keep the springs loaded at ride height

The suspension modifications are essentially done and now we can move ahead with body mods

The car will sit very low with plenty of suspension travel


As you can see from these two pictures the floor was pretty much toast.


Fortunately. the project car came with a set of replacement floor panels...

...and a pair of replacement door sills

We started by bracing the body with one inch square tubing to keep in in alignment when we started cutting the floor out


More bracing

Since the project design called for sectioning the car two and a half inches and we were replacing the floor anyway, we
decided to take the two and a half right off the bottom and install the floor that much higher that stock. We added these
temporary body mounts to several spots and bolted the body back on the frame without a floor. that would allow us to build
the new floor right on top of the frame.


Somewhere along the way we decided to ditch the C4 and use an AOD. We made the transmission tunnel as close to the
transmission as possible to preserve as much interior room as we could

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:01 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #3
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


At this point the interior floor is mostly complete and we can move on to the quarter panels

With the floor modifications complete, the body is now two and a half inches lower than before. The running boards,
bumpers, and fenders on the other hand are still in their stock relationship to the frame. So, the areas where the fenders
meet the body must be reconstructed.

The transition piece between the trunk and fender used to be at about a 45 degree angle. Now it needs to be nearly
horizontal.


We'll start by fabricating a new lip for the fender to bolt to.

Cut away metal that won't be used


We made some cardboard templates for the new pieces



Next up is fabricating the metal pieces. Due to the length and compond curves it was faster to make it in several pieces

Most of it welded up

The old tail panel was beat to death and to make matters worse it was already a replacement panel that was just booger
welded right over the original, also beat to death, tail panel. Since we need it sectioned by two and a half inches anyway
and we had a nice repop panel in the parts pile, the old one was cut completely out.


It took quite a bit of cutting and fitting of the new tail panel to get the curves to work

With the left side done now we get to do it all over again

The tail panel will still require some metal work when we get to the bodywork phase but, it's generally the right shape and
will do just fine for now

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:15 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #4
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


With the springs moved in and up, the tire is really tuckud up there in the fender

Once again I didn't have the camera busy while I was. We finished up the floor, including the trunk floor and rear
fender wells. The fender wells are big enough to contain 235R15 tires without any clearance issues. The trunk floor
was formed as close as possible to the frame and cross members below it to maintain as much trunk space as possible.

The tool tray in the back will get a flat cover when the trim work is done.
Like the quarter panels, the hood has to be modified to work with the fenders that are in the stock relationship
to the frame and the cowl that is two and half inches lower than it was originally. We will section it roughly two and
a half inches. the final dimension will be determined by eyeball engineering or how it looks best.

we started out by bracing the inside of the hood.

The bracing allows the bottom "half" to maintain it's shape when we cut it in two.

We test fit the top half to the car to see if anything else needs to be trimmed.

Same with the bottom half.

Now we set the top half inside the bottom half.

This shows how much mis-alignment we are going to have to deal with in re-connecting the two pieces.

Now we begin aligning the two pieces so they look "right"

The tape line follows the body line and must flow smoothly from end to end

Here we have the top of the hood shimmed to the proper height

Here we are beginning to cut and bend the edges of each piece to blend to the other

After tacking it together we pulled the hood back off to weld it up.

Welding it up consisted of connecting a buzillion individual tack welds done intermittently to control the heat
and prevent distortion.

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:03 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #5
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


The outside's all welded up and smotthed out. We still have to add a little triangle shaped patch on the bottom sides.

We finished the inside smooth too since it will be visible when the hood is up.


Back on the car to see how it looks.

Sectioned 40 Fords always look a little odd to me because when the hood is sectioned and the grille left the stock height,
it disturbs the proportions between the two. With that in mind we added an inch to the bottom lip of the hood and we intend
to take an inch out of the grille height when we get to that phase of the project to preserve the original hood/grille
proportions.

With the front suspension and wheels moved forward two inches, we now have to move the hole in the fender a like amount.


Here we have cut a new radius on the fender, added a patch to the back of the opening and mocked up some clay to get an
idea of how we want to modify the lower front corners. We also swapped the brake rotors out for some with 5 lugs so we could
use proper sized tires.


The fender lip was fabricated using half inch, .067" wall steel tubing. A little hard to bend but, quite strong once
welded in.

New sheet metal was added to the lower front of the fender.


All tacked in

The rear fender radius was cut the same way as the front and a new lip was formed using the same tubing.


Once it was all welded up and ground smooth we squirted a little primer on it and fitted the "real" wheels and tires for
a few glamour shots

Looks pretty good huh? Almost looks like you could take it for a scream but, we're just getting started.
Somewhere along the way we discovered that convertible doors are six inches longer than coupe doors. To maintain proper
proportions for a convertible, Tony decided to make the switch. Convertible doors are kind of thin on the ground.
Luckily, sedan doors are about the same length and Tony was able to score a pair of those for reasonable money.

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:04 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:56 PM   #6
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


The swap involved cutting the rear door jamb on the quarter panel and moving it back about six inches.

To get the door gaps close we actually made spacers and welded the jamb to the door first and then welded the jamb to the
quarter panel. Once that was done the tack welds and spacers holding the jamb and the door together were removed.


The stock height sedan doors had to be sectioned two and a half inches between the hinges and the front door jambs had
to have the bottom hinges moved up.

Inside door shot showing the re-positioned brace.

About this time Tony showed up for a visit. Since he was happy with how it all looked so far
I cut the top off right before his eyes.

There's still quite a bit of work to do on the doors to get rid of the sedan and make them convertible.

We'll start with a patch to the "A" pillar side of the door.

Then a patch for the "B" pillar side of it.

And since we're on a roll, we'll make one for the front part of the quarter panel. This one was a little tricky because
the outside edge has a bow to it and the inside edge has a 90 degree bend. I did it by rolling the curve first, then
shrinking the edge that would get the 90 degree bend, that gave me the bow that I needed. Then I trimmed the shrunken edge
straight and bent the 90 degree bend in a small bench top sheet metal break.
Next up we're going to work on the windows and the top profile. The first step will be mocking up the side glass to get the
overall shape and the windshield angle determined.

We started with some cardboard window templates and just started cutting and fitting until it looked like the car in the
rendering.

We re-shaped the left side vent window to our desired height and windshield angle.

Then we started mocking up the windshield post with magnets to see how it was going to fit.

Finally we mocked up some side glass profiles to see how that looked.

With the door top finished and some primer on the door we can proceed with the window and top mock up without the
distractions of the unfinished door drawing our eyes away from the task at hand.

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:05 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:56 PM   #7
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


The mock up window frames back in place.

Here we have taped and zip tied cardboard behind the window frames to begin the top profile mock up.

Nothing high tech here, I just taped the rendering to the cardboard and started drawing on it with a pencil.

Once we were happy with the shape, I trimmed the excess cardboard off.

For a final shot, I blacked out the cardboard "windows".
With the window and top shapes determined, now we can proceed with fabricating a convertible windshield frame.
Since we don't have any 40 or 46 convertible windshield frames or side glass to use we decided to use parts from
a 51 Victoria. That may seem like an odd choice at first but, there are a few reasons why it makes sense. The 51 Victoria
side windows operate in the same way as the 46 convertible. They will have to be re-shaped but the mechanism is the right
configuration for our project. Also the 51 Victoria windshield frame is actually the same as the 51 convertible, it just has
the hard top bolted on top. Again it will have to be chopped and narrowed for our installation. These pieces do present a
few challenges though.

The first challenge is that the cross section of the 40 and 51 "A" pillars are quite different.


The next thing we noticed is that the pinch weld depth for the windshield rubber is different between the two years.

The angle of the 40 "A" pillar and the angle of our modified vent window is different.

And finally, the shape of the 51 "A" pillar and the 40 is a bit different.

We decided to use as much or the 51 "A" pillar as possible and cut down into the 40 cowl to make the transition there.
The plan is to separate the 51 pieces, that is the front sheet metal, the inner structure, and the rear sheet metal.
We will then chop and narrow the front sheet metal pieces and install them on the car to get profile and angles set.
Then we will built a new inner structure out of tubing. Next up will be to replace the pinch weld for the windshield rubber
and finally we will chop and narrow the rear sheet metal pieces. Later on we will modify the Garnish moulding that covers the
windshield rubber on the inside of the car.

Here we began fitting the "A" pillar to the cowl.
Then we moved to a new shop and finished the door top before proceeding.

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:06 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #8
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


The "A" pillar has been chopped to the desired height...

...and is held in place at the proper angles. It's now ready for fitting to the cowl.

Patched and welded in.

At the rear you can see that we're just working with the front sheet metal at this point.

I made a cardboard template to use on the other side to make sure I get the angles the same.

Using the cardboard template from the left side and the steel vent window template I was able to place the chopped right
side "A" pillar in place and attach a piiece of rod to help hold it in place.

Stand back and eyeball everything to make sure it looks right.

Now we start fabbing the transition pieces between the "A" pillar and the cowl.

I added a piece of 1" sqaure tubing between the two "A" piller pieces. It's angled in the middle to match the angle in the
middle of the cowl. Then the center pieces of the winshield frame were trimmed and welded in.

Once it was all welded up and ground smooth it looked pretty good although it looks a little thin in the middle. We'll
address that when we do the rust repair to the top surface.

Last edited by DRD57; 01-12-2012 at 06:07 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #9
Ole_Red
Member
 
Ole_Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 206, WA
Posts: 561
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRD57 View Post
hold this spot
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRD57 View Post
this one 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRD57 View Post
this one 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRD57 View Post
this one 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRD57 View Post
this one 5
im calling shenanigans!
__________________
1960 Stude Lark VIII Longroof <--Click
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:03 PM   #10
DD COOPMAN
Member
 
DD COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lake Houston
Posts: 989
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Patience! It keeps the up-coming stuff un-interrupted. This should be GOOD! DD
__________________
UNDERSTAND...BEFORE you disagree!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud


Here's the tubular inner structure that we added to replace the sheet metal pieces that were in the 51 windshield frame.

When we replaced the rusty metal on the top of the frame, we added about a quarter inch in the center to make the thickness
of the top of the frame more consistent from side to side. In this shot you can also see that we have begun fabrication of the
new pinch weld.


In these shots you can see where the pinch weld piece is welded to the tubing for additional strength.



Now we begin re-constructing the inside sheet metal pieces.

Kinda looks like a porcupine with all those clecos in it.

We bolted the dash in place so we could make a smooth transition from the windshield frame to the dash.



All welded up and ground smooth.

With the tubing inner structure it's plenty strong

That's all for now.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:09 PM   #12
DRD57
Alliance Member
 
DRD57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Tulare, CA, USA
Posts: 1,346
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Quote:
Originally Posted by DD COOPMAN View Post
Patience! It keeps the up-coming stuff un-interrupted. This should be GOOD! DD
Yeah, what he said.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:31 PM   #13
Royalshifter
Alliance Member
 
Royalshifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 15,509
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Gosh darminet that is badass.....I envy you Tony.
__________________
9" Currie for sale-classifieds

"I LIKE KUSTOMS"
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:42 PM   #14
daddy_o's_diner
Alliance Member
 
daddy_o's_diner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Midland, Michigan
Posts: 2,104
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

This IS gonna be good!!!




.
__________________
The Chemical City Coupe

Bonneville inspired '32 ford 5-Window

Build thread
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=727871
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:46 PM   #15
couverkid
Alliance Member
 
couverkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver,WA.
Posts: 1,183
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Thanks for the roof, my dad ended up with the roof off this car. Will help out a car he has alot.
online   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #16
Tman
Old School HAMBer
 
Tman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Beautifull Black Hills of South Dakota
Posts: 28,172
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Amazing lines Don. See you again on the salt this summer!
__________________
Open for business, website in developement
www.compulsionrodandcustom.com
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 06:55 PM   #17
captainjunk#2
Old School HAMBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 3,764
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

man that s patience and a lot of fabrication , and welding , will have to keep watching this one
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 07:12 PM   #18
general gow
Alliance Member
 
general gow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 5,430
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

as my son used to say when he was 11, "wowwie, wow, wow!"
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #19
50Fraud
Old School HAMBer
 
50Fraud's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 5,682
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Really good review, Don. Thanks!!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2012, 07:17 PM   #20
DD COOPMAN
Member
 
DD COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lake Houston
Posts: 989
Default Re: 50Fraud's 40Fraud

Damn, UNBELIEVABLE tin-work, and vision, but one of the most amazing aspects of what you've done is the end-result of moving the front axle forward and the re-contour of the wheel opening. This has "corrected" the only thing about a '40 that it should never have left the factory with.......BEAUTIFUL! DD
__________________
UNDERSTAND...BEFORE you disagree!
offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.