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OK, what gives, 56 Olds

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnny Gee, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Thank you to all of you that have help me along if your reading this also. 56 in stock form is one year only for that steering box in power. Know I can get a 605 box that fits 56 57 58 and I'm told the bolt pattern on the frame is the same. So, heres the what gives? Is it the input shaft size and spline the only differance? Or is it the output to pitman arm the issue? Thanks once more. John
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  2. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,223

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    JG,
    I believe that the pitman arm splines are the same on both boxes,but don't hold me to it.
     
  3. uncledon529@bellsouth.net
    Joined: Mar 7, 2009
    Posts: 31

    [email protected]
    Member
    from florida

    JG On my 56 Pontiac I replaced the stock power steerinr with a power 605 box. It bolted to the frame but had to use a manual steering pitman arm. Also had to modify the column to use a camaro rag joint. Hope this helps
     
  4. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Uncle Don, everything that you have mentioned I have learned already. I might even go the route you did. So, what answer I am really looking for guy's is what makes the 56 Olds stock power steering box stand alone. There is no interchange between other years for that year when doing it all stock. The bolt pattern on the frame is the same for 56 57 58. It's the little detail that I'm looking for more than it being a stumbling block to getting the project done. In other words, I need that info even though it don't amount to nothing. Make sence?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012

  5. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Johnny, If Uncle Don is correct on the fit.....I would never try to find the stock 56 Olds PS box.. That's because the 57 PS stock system that I had, had no road feel at all. I would think the 56 PS system would feel the same.

    I know you guys want it stock..but,,,

    JMO
     
  6. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    So, what answer I am really looking for guy's is what makes the 56 Olds stock power steering box stand alone

    After working in the auto assembly business for thirty years, I think to answer that correctly you need to go back to the design room in 1956. It may be as simple as finding a steering gearbox vendor who would sell the gearbox for a nickle less.
     
  7. Is it possible that '56 is a one piece deal, column and box, and '57-'58 have a rag joint in them? That's about when they were switching over.

    Does an old Motors manual say anything? diagrams maybe?
     
  8. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    F&J, yes I have read that as well about the road feel. I will have to talk to Adriene the owner of the Olds about this issue as well as there are tons of 605 boxes out there. I just put this question out there because I wonna know whats differant is all. Call it the OCD in me ;).
     
  9. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Rusty New Yorker, the 56 power steering box looks just like 57 58 BOP and Caddy with a rag joint. But something in 56 made it one year only app and will not interchange with other years.
     
  10. desotot
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 2,036

    desotot
    Member

    so, a little of topic but does anyone know if a 605 box will fit a 55 buick as easy as it did in uncledon pontiac?
     
  11. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Theres a guy that goes by chevy 605 on that E something site where you bid on stuff. Maybe he has an answer.
     
  12. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    In case you can't find a 56 PS box:

    2 pics of a 56 Olds manual steering..

    First pic, I was trying to show the centerline of the steering column shaft, and how far down to the very top of the pitman arm. Top of arm meaning the big end of the splines. It looks to be 3.5"

    2nd pic was trying to show the uneven frame side where the box bolts on.

    Can't tell what is inside the lower column, as far as the lower bushing for the inner shift tube, but there is a lot of room between the shifting lever and the box. So, you would think it should be easy to find the spot to cut the column off, and then install a simple hardware store 'Flange Bearing' for garden tractor front hubs. Then you need a compression coiled spring that can slip over the Olds inner shaft and a locking collar from the hardware store. The collar and spring will push the bearing into the column tube and hold proper downward tension on the upper steering wheel bushing. GM used that setup on many cars/trucks.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    F&J, Thanks for going thru all that trouble with pics and all. I know exactly whats inside that manual set up. I have seen the exploded drawing for both the manual and power steering column. I already have a rough scitch drawn out to be a combination selector shaft bearing and steering shaft support bearing with retainer so shaft stays locked in the column with out the help of what ever steering box ends up in the car.
     
  14. You missed it last Weds, JG, but the Olds Club meets at the Mimi's Cafe across from the Broiler. They have a couple of mid '50s experts.
     
  15. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    You know Phil I completely forgot about that. Unless its stamped on my forehead so I can see it as I brush my teeth I forget things. Did you say Wednesday's? and Mimi's? Ouch!. I should play nice because they probably have my answer. But why don't they meet at the Broiler if it's on a Wednesday night? Let me know the next time they're there and time.
     
  16. Johnny, first Weds of the month. I'll remind you next time, because I need to go also.
     
  17. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,588

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I know of some 56s that are in a couple junkyards,do you want me to see if any still have the steering boxes.
     
  18. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Thank you for the offer Jeff. However I don't want you going out of your way. There are some details to be sorted and if we go 605 your time would be wasted.
     
  19. Rckt98
    Joined: Jun 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,132

    Rckt98
    Member

    For what its worth the power steer box uses a different column to the manual steer box, it has a rag joint to connect. i have several of them here (bit far to deliver) but if you need a measurement taken let me know. I would have thought it wouldn't be difficult to find a complete setup in the States (all mine came from there).
    Russell
     
  20. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Russell, yes the power unit uses a rag joint and the manual unit is a 1 pc shaft and box. In the start of this thread all I'm really asking is what makes a 56 power steering box differant than the 57 and 58 power steering box. The mounting bolt pattern is the same for all 3 years but the 56 is a 1 year only app. So what makes the 56 differant than the 57 58. Hope this helps everyone understand me better.
     
  21. uncledon529@bellsouth.net
    Joined: Mar 7, 2009
    Posts: 31

    [email protected]
    Member
    from florida

    JG, try this man, he helped me with my 605 unit. Don Shigekawa. Email [email protected]. He sells on ebay and is in Texas. Don
     
  22. buds56
    Joined: Dec 9, 2004
    Posts: 205

    buds56
    Member

    I'm not sure about Olds, but in search of ps parts for my 56 pont I've learned that in 56 the pump and box were upgraded and run at different pressures from 55 eliminating the interchanging of the parts.

    That may be the issues with the Olds, the factory was upgrading a little every year.

    hope this helps, Bud
     
  23. 1954 rocket 98
    Joined: Apr 18, 2011
    Posts: 225

    1954 rocket 98
    Member

    my hollander book says the same thing you said about 57 & 58 bolting up but it also says to "watch the length" so I take that to mean that the distance from the mounting bolts to the rag joint is different on the 57 & 8 boxes. it does not say weather it is shorter or longer. it also looks like the pitman arm is unique to that year also. i converted my 56 olds and changed out the steeering column, steering box and all the linkage. hope that helps you out some.
     
  24. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Thank you 1954 Rocket 98. That's the best answer so far that proofs there is a differance. I have a hunch it's the output shaft as well, which would relate to the pitman arm as well.
     
  25. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,223

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor


    Chili,
    Why don't you have them meet at the Broiler with their cars, Are they mostly 442's or the like? Everything and one's welcome at the Broiler!
    Send em on in ;).

    Back to JG's box ? He just want to know what makes this a one year application,how and why?
    We need ta bring A's Holiday there to the Broiler as well hence the P/S steering box, her manual steering "Popeye Muscles" are gone. So JG and i are attempting to make this look a "From The Factory" app.

    Thx,
    CK
     
  26. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Kevin we are almost there. Thanks to all the help here on the HAMB the shopping list is almost complete. Got a line up on the last few parts just an hours drive away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  27. jaymann
    Joined: Nov 29, 2010
    Posts: 54

    jaymann
    Member

    I don't know what makes the 56 a one year only part, but I'm looking at swapping my power steering box in my '56 Olds to a 605 and any info you could pass on would be greatly appreciated!
     
  28. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    jayman, let me jump start you. Making this your first post by HAMB rules is not the way to start. That's why no replies possibly. Moving on, from all that I have read up on the 605 box is a simple swap. The three things you will need is a differant rag joint or flex couple and the pitman arm from a manual steering box and hose's. There is a guy on that e something site that sells 605's and also can help with the other iteams needed.
    Before doing another thing, go back and do and intro where it say's introduce yourself. Things will start running then :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
  29. jaymann
    Joined: Nov 29, 2010
    Posts: 54

    jaymann
    Member

    Thanks for setting me right Johnny Gee.
    I've actually been lurking here so long that I forgot I never introduced myself.
    My apologies.
    Thanks for the info.

    (I went back before posting this and posted and introduction, but for some reason it never made it thru. Glad I went back and checked or I'd look like a goof posting here and still not introducing myself!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  30. 48 Chubby
    Joined: Apr 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,014

    48 Chubby
    Member Emeritus

    My memory is not so sharp as it once was but, it seems to me that some where along in the mid 50's GM went to a rag joint on PS cars and then the next year went to a different design on the line fittings. The new fittings were supposed to be for the higher pressure from the new pump design. This left one year an orphan with an early fitting and a late shaft. There may be more to it, but a check of part numbers on the pressure hose could be informative.
     

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