Welcome to the THE H.A.M.B. forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Go Back   THE H.A.M.B. > General Discussion > The Hokey Ass Message Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2011, 10:11 PM   #21
Boyd Wylie
Grenade Inspector
 
Boyd Wylie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Langley,BC,Canada
Posts: 392
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

If it's more octane you want,get racing gas or av-gas.Leave the moths alone.
I never tried it ,but did pour a litre of alcohol in with gas,,inconclusive
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 10:39 PM   #22
BURN OUT BOB
Alliance Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: eastern Oregon& western AZ
Posts: 635
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

I believe they have a cotton like material to hold their form. Better have a good filter.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 10:52 PM   #23
plym_46
Old School HAMBer
 
plym_46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: central NY
Posts: 3,155
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

but adding a couple ounces of acetone will raise your gas mileage by up to 20%. Put in one of those swirl inducing intake gizmos, a few magnets and an ionizer on the fuel line, and you will need to stop at the gas station to pump gas back into thier tanks.


And this story is so old that like the gasolie we use, the formulatio of moth balls has changed, not napthalene any more.

Why do you need more octane???
__________________
If yer running a flathead, how come yer plugs are slanted????
offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-12-2011, 11:07 PM   #24
32ratsass
Grenade Inspector
 
32ratsass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 258
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

I remember being told about using kerosene and mothballs in cars, during gas rationing days (WW2). What was that all about?
__________________
It's easy!!! ( If you know how to do it )
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 04:35 AM   #25
jimbo121
Grenade Inspector
 
jimbo121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 105
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Actually I believe Mobil used this technique back in the early thirties to raise the octane of the often poor quality fuels. Further to that , the very name Mo-Bil is a loose translation of MothBall. And yes, I am FU##king with you! Bahaaaaaaa!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 05:10 AM   #26
torino_Joe
Grenade Inspector
 
torino_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: nickle_nickle_9,CALIF
Posts: 131
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

I also thought this woulda been shut down bye now,I'm glad to see that it's not though. Come'on moth balls,P.E.T.A,sugar in the gas tank? This is hilarious,especially at 3:00am. Keep this madness up.Please lol
__________________
"make it 3 yards mutherf****r and we'll have ourselves an automobile race" Driver-2lanebt-1971
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 05:15 AM   #27
chopolds
Old School HAMBer
 
chopolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: howell, nj
Posts: 4,587
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Let's see....mothballs, swirl gadget under the carb, magnets in the fuel line, additives in the gas tank...pretty soon, by driving, I'll be PRODUCING gasoline, instead of using it!
__________________
Finished The Kart
Proud Member: Gold Chainers CC
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 05:52 AM   #28
iluvcarparts
Alliance Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: socal
Posts: 28
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

In the days of the Model T, mechanics used this trick get rid of built up carbon inside the motor. The mothballs would cause severe detonation,which would literally knock the carbon off the valves and pistons.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 05:53 AM   #29
zman
Alliance Member
 
zman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Garner, NC
Posts: 16,538
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazyjohn View Post
.......Just dont inhale the mothballs
and don't handle them with bare hands, don't let them come in contact with skin, they are HIGHLY POISONOUS.
__________________
I have gotten grief for pointing out that the white, speckled stuff on chicken shit is still chicken shit. I will continue to do so... Chili Phil
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 08:20 AM   #30
tommy
Old School HAMBer
 
tommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Davidsonville, Md.
Posts: 14,397
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

In the early 60s the BS story was to put some in an enemies gas tank. It was supposed to make the car run like a striped ass ape until the valves burned. The idea was to do it on a full tank so that after the heads were rebuilt, the moth balls were still in the tank and they would burn the new valves too.

It was such fun to be young and gullible. Alas I grew up and realized that not everyone in the world tells the truth.
__________________
Quote...You are hereby Knighted...'Sir Asseth of Hole' Tommy... 3W Larry.
Quote...It's called "HOT RODDING", not paint by numbers....Fab32
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 08:25 AM   #31
carcrazyjohn
Alliance Member
 
carcrazyjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: trevose pa
Posts: 4,878
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Wheres myth busters when you need them ......................
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 08:34 AM   #32
NumbNutz
Alliance Member
 
NumbNutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: gilbert,arizona
Posts: 344
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Make sure to use the larger moths. If there balls are too small they will plug up jets and injectors.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Interesting thread though.
__________________
LOS BOULEVARDOS
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 09:11 AM   #33
1971BB427
Old School HAMBer
 
1971BB427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,129
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

It's actually not moth balls, but butterfly balls. I don't know how these stories get so mixed up?
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 09:14 AM   #34
Tom S. in Tn.
Senior Member
 
Tom S. in Tn.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Middle Tenn.
Posts: 1,091
Talking Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

[QUOTE=propwash;6645668]No moths were injured in the effort to raise the octane level of the featured gasoline product.[/QUOTE

: ))))))
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 09:16 AM   #35
porknbeaner
Alliance Member
 
porknbeaner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Raytown, MO
Posts: 25,294
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditions Racing View Post
It was just MY version of a lame joke, just like everyone else, O.K. Did you really think I was serious?
Hey I've eaten animal testicles before. But I am sure that it would take a lot of moths to make a good sandwich.

I have heard of people using mothballs for an octain boost. I asked my chemisrty tracher about it a couple of year back, he said it was not the chemical that the mothballs are made of but the reaction that it made with the gasoline that would make a vehicle run better. Then he told me to resaerch the chemical reacion. But alas I am lazy so I can't give you an answer on the reaction.

tgis is what an old timer told me. he said if you do it you don't just domp the moth balls in the tank they will gum stuff up, he said to take a pair of panties and put the oth balls in them then stick them in the tank. When the moth balls disolve they panites will keep all the crap out of your fuel.

I actually have better idea than that, but it is an entirely different subject.

Here is something to think about when wondering if it will work. Nitrous oxide doesn't burn, but it promotes combustion. I doubt that the moth balls actually raise your octain it just makes your engine use your fuel more efficiently. It may not work at all without the lead.
__________________
If it don't make ya dirty it ain't yours

No man crosses a chasm in two jumps

Last edited by porknbeaner; 06-13-2011 at 09:31 AM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 09:24 AM   #36
sololobo
Old School HAMBer
 
sololobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Omaha, NE
Posts: 6,870
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Maybe some 104 octane boost would be safer. Old wives tale for sure. The thread was good for some laughs anyway. ~sololobo~
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 12:26 PM   #37
carbking
Senior Member
 
carbking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eldon, Missouri
Posts: 1,737
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

I think you won't like the results of mothballs in the tank BUT; all of you are invited to participate in the Testicle Festival held in Olean, Missouri annually. Last year's was the last weekend in May, this years should be coming up. And if you don't believe me, Google it!

As far as increased octane is concerned: unless you are a chemist, racing fuel and mix as needed is the cheapest way to go. Some of those chemicals can be hazardous to your health!

Jon.
__________________
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The Carburetor Shop of Missouri 573-392-7378 (9-4 M-Tues CT)

Last edited by carbking; 06-13-2011 at 12:31 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 01:52 PM   #38
mart3406
Old School HAMBer
 
mart3406's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,110
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32ratsass View Post
"I remember being told about using kerosene
and mothballs in cars, during gas rationing days
(WW2). What was that all about?
"
-----------------------
Probably a 'back woods, home-brew' way
of extending gasoline which was rationed
and hard to come by. Kerosene, besides
having almost no knock resistance, is, by
itself also not volatile enough to vaporize
and work in a normal carburetor. But adding
some highly volatile naphthalene to a mix of
gasoline and kerosene would probably allow
the engine to run - after a fashion at least
- on a gasoline/kerosene blend. It might
marginally work in a pinch, in a low hp and
relatively slow turning, sub-5 to 1 compression,
cast iron piston - 1920's or early-30's vintage
engine, but even then, it wouldn't be very
good.

Mart3406
==================
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 02:22 PM   #39
carbking
Senior Member
 
carbking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eldon, Missouri
Posts: 1,737
Default Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mart3406 View Post
-----------------------
Probably a 'back woods, home-brew' way
of extending gasoline which was rationed
and hard to come by. Kerosene, besides
having almost no knock resistance, is, by
itself also not volatile enough to vaporize
and work in a normal carburetor. But adding
some highly volatile naphthalene to a mix of
gasoline and kerosene would probably allow
the engine to run - after a fashion at least
- on a gasoline/kerosene blend. It might
marginally work in a pinch, in a low hp and
relatively slow turning, sub-5 to 1 compression,
cast iron piston - 1920's or early-30's vintage
engine, but even then, it wouldn't be very
good.

Mart3406
==================
Lots of tractors DID run on kerosene. Some of the carburetors are quite interesting (at least to me). Many of the carburetors designed for kerosene burning engines had two bowls (one for gasoline, one for kerosene), one on either side of the carburetor throat. Each bowl had its own fuel valve and float. The engine was started on gasoline, and allowed to warm; then switched over to kerosene. These engines would have massive preheaters around the manifold to vaporize the fuel after the engine warmed. Octane of kerosene (memory, sometimes faulty) is about 40 or so.

Later tractors had two tanks, but a single bowl carburetor. The same general principal, but one switched tanks rather than carburetor bowls. Woe to the farm hand who killed the engine on kerosene without first switching back to gasoline.

Here is a link to an original drawing that we digitally restored:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kingston_1_clean.JPG

Jon.
__________________
Good carburetion is fuelish hot air!

The Carburetor Shop of Missouri 573-392-7378 (9-4 M-Tues CT)

Last edited by carbking; 06-13-2011 at 02:31 PM.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2011, 06:10 PM   #40
mart3406
Old School HAMBer
 
mart3406's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,110
Lightbulb Re: mothballs in gas for higher octane?

I didn't mean to imply that straight kerosene
couldn't be vaporized by a carburetor.- just
not by regular automobile-type carburetor
designed for gasoline. Kerosene was used
as a fuel in a lot of early spark-ignition engines.
particularly on tractors and stationary engines,
but to carburete and vaporize the fuel, the
carburetors had to use an outside source of
heat - usually from the engine's exhaust system
- to vaporize the fuel.

Here's some cutaway pictures and a description
of the unique Secor-Higgens carburetor used on
Rumely 'Oil Pull' tractors from the early 1900's
to the late 1920's that used a combination of
direct exhaust heat and exhaust-heated water,
mixed with the fuel and flashed into steam, to
vaporize the kerosene and then homogenize
and cool the mixture in order to control
detonation caused by the inherent low-octane
of kerosene. Pretty slick and very high-tech for
neatly a 100 years ago! (And all without even
one single mothball required! [GRIN!] )

Mart3406
-----------------
http://www.rustyiron.com/rumely/secor.html


Secor - Higgins
Kerosene Carburetor
As found on Model B, E & F Oilpull Tractors

The fuel supply system of the Rumely Oilpull tractors is arranged so that kerosene, distillate and other low grade oils may be burned successfully. This, the Secor system, so named after its inventor, does not involve specially designed engines as any motor intended for operation on gasoline can be used successfully with kerosene if fitted with a Secor-Higgins carburetor. This is not a new system, by any means, because it was developed over fourteen years ago and has received practical application in thousands of power plants used for agricultural purposes during this period. The following matter, reproduced from the Scientific American Supplement, clearly outlines the essential features of the Secor system and also of the vaporizer used in connection with it:
Stated in brief terms, the system covers: (1) An automatic variation in the quantity of fuel mixture in accordance with the slightest variation in speed and load; (2) A degree of compression dependent upon the quantity of the mixture inhaled; (3) A correct proportioning of the mixture under all conditions, involving relatively weaker mixtures for higher compressions; (4) A temperature of combustion exactly adapted to the quality of fuel used and the compression; (5) Automatic control of the internal temperature through the admission of water as part of the fuel mixture; (6) Thorough and uniform mixture of fuel, water and air charge by mechanical means and without the application of additional heat; (7) Automatic variation in the time of firing in response to variations in speed and power; (8) Means for changing the limits of speed within which all factors are simultaneously controlled; (9) And means for starting on a limited supply of volatile fuel, all of which factors are vital to the control of internal heat, the transformation of heat into power and power production. The adaptability of the system described to the lower grade oils is secured through its providing a co-ordination of all factors at all times, this being considered necessary owing to the more difficult vaporization and combination of less volatile oils. The throttling governor, taking a different quantity of fuel mixtures for each cycle as the load varies, naturally produces a varying compression within the cylinder. It is well known that at higher compression leaner fuel mixtures may be, and should be used, and vice versa. One great factor in the success of the system is that through the mechanism of the special carburetor, the propertions of fuel, air and water are automatically varied in relation to each other as the comresssion changes. By this means the conditions within the cylinder, whether the engine is run at heavy load or light, are constant so far as they affect the completeness of combustion. Complete combustion eliminates the deposit of carbon which has been regarded as an insurmountable objection to the use of heavy fuels, and the unified automatic control results in the securing of splendid regulation.
The automatic control of the quantity of water is an original feature of the system, and is advantageous for several reasons. In the first place it makes for clean combustion by controlling the temperature of vaporization and combustion so that there is practically no cracking of the low-grade oil with its attendant carbon deposit. The water allows the use of higher compression, consequently greater power from the same bore, stroke and speed. The effect of the water in producing a slower-burning mixture is seen in a lower explosion pressure and a flatter indicator card. This results in as high a mean effective pressure as is found in gasoline engines of similar proportions, without the strain and instability produced by a violent initial shock. There is further, undoubtedly, a dissociation of water into nascent hydrogen and oxygen. The latter, being much more active than the diluted oxygen of the atmosphere, has naturally a greater affinity for any free carbon that may have been deposited at the moment of explosion. The hydrogen set free probably burns with the oxygen of the air as the temperature falls toward the end of the stroke, but it is doubtful whether enough steam is thus formed to exert any considerable expansive effect upon the piston. The process does, however, effectively scour the cylinder. The explosion is converted into a long, steady push instead of a short, sharp blow, and the water apparently gives an increase of power of at least 15 per cent over a similar engine without it.
The water is not only controlled as to amount, but is brought into play automatically. As the load increases, the throttle opens and more air is sucked through the carburetor. Not until about half load is reached does the suction become strong enough to lift the water, hence it is not present to hinder ignition at light loads, nor to allow preignition at any time, being neither too heavy for ignition at heavy loads nor too light to control the temperature of vaporization.
Crankshaft, cam shaft, governor, magneto, carburetor, valves and piston act as a positively controlled unit in engines equipped with the new system, hence no one mechanical factor deserves to be set apart from the others in importance. However, the special carburetor, which makes possible the application of the new system, is of sufficient novelty to warrant special attention. A fly-ball governor, through a first-class lever and a link coupling, operates a sliding brass valve which is clearly shown in the the accompanying picture. The carburetor sits above the cylinders, with the short inlet manifold presenting little opportunity for the mixture to stratify before it is completely vaporized. It contains constant-level chambers for kerosene and water, an overflow being provided for each. It has also, for starting purposes, a chamber for gasoline which is filled by hand pump. This chamber, which holds about a pint, is connected by a siphon with the mixing chamber. Turning the engine over creates suction enough to draw upon the contents of this chamber, but a vent is provided so that if a start is not made immediately the siphon will not continue to act and drain the chamber.
This image shows the position of the valve plate at light load. Two air inlets are then open, providing a large ratio of admission to outlet area and thus greatly reducing the relative vacuum in the mixing chamber. As the load increases, the governor throws the sliding valve forward, increasing the area of the outlet to the cylinder, increasing the air inlet in the middle, and decreasing or entirely closing the air opening at the right. Thus the ratio of admission to outlet area decreases, the relative vacuum becomes greater, and more fuel in quantity, though not in proportion, is picked up by the incoming air and carried to the cylinder.
A sectional view from the side shows the arrangement of the kerosene and water needle valves, the overflow, etc. It will be noted that the water level is lower than the kerosene level. The suction therefore is not great enough, until the engine reaches about half load, to lift the water to the point where it can flow down the tube surrounding the needle valve. From half to full load, the ratio of water to fuel increases rapidly until the amounts of fuel and water used are practically equal. The carburetor is so designed that the fuel needle-valve should be adjusted at the full-load position, when the plate is farthest to the right. This order of procedure is important, since at this position the adjustable plate has no effect upon the area of the air inlet openings. The adjustment of the air should be made at the "no-load" position and after once made, need never be changed, unless the engine enters a very different altitude. This adjustable plate allows each carburetor to be adjusted to the engine it is to serve, hence the slight variatoins in manufacturing are fully taken care of. The sliding plate is the only moving part in the carburetor, and that is positively controlled. There are no springs, floats or check valves. the device is simple, the parts are large and there is no possibility of the device getting out of order of failing to supply a correctly proportioned mixture as long as the pumps supplying fuel and water are functioning properly and the fuel and water containers are kept full.
This passage is from "The Modern Gas Tractor,"
by Victor W. Pagé, ©1914


================================
offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 AM.