History Oldsmobile Jetfire Turbo Rocket V8

[1950ChevySuburban]

Just re-read Ryan's post again, yes it was aluminum. That engine supposedly found it's way into the Triumph TR-8 afterwards.

[KrisKustomPaint]

Originally Posted by 1950ChevySuburban

Just re-read Ryan's post again, yes it was aluminum. That engine supposedly found it's way into the Triumph TR-8 afterwards.

I believe that was the Buick version. The Olds was used for the repco motors. The buicks got bought by the rover group. Rover used them up until just recently. TVR's used that version as well.

[JEM]

Originally Posted by 1950ChevySuburban

Just re-read Ryan's post again, yes it was aluminum. That engine supposedly found it's way into the Triumph TR-8 afterwards.

GM sold the tooling to Rover, who used it in a lot of different vehicles - the Land Rover and Range Rover SUVs, the P6-series Rover 3500S and the swoopy Rover SD1 (sold in the US as the Rover 3500), it was also used in a lot of specialty Brit products like TVRs and has long been a favorite of the Brit kit-car and engine-swap community.

The Olds and Buick versions had some absurdly trivial differences.

The crank and heads from the later iron-block 300ci Buick will fit the US 215 Buicks with a little work.

In production, the Rover version went to 4.0, 4.6, then a major design revision to get the 4.2 and 5.0L versions.

Last I read the tooling had been sold to some Chinese outfit about five years ago.

[olds215]

I have a '29 Model A CCPU that I put an Olds 215 in with an S-10 5 speed. (for sale BTW) Not a turbo - I'm using a Holley 390. A great combo in a light vehicle. The whole thing only weighs about 320# fully dressed.
I learned a lot about "the little engine that could" in the process. Just about everything posted so far is true, and I found out that the engine was even used in a few Tempests in those years. Anyone who wants to learn more should visit www.aluminumv8.com That's the site for D&D Fabrications in MI, and IMO they are the single best source for anything you want to know about the 215. They also sell a lot of parts, both new and used.

[CutawayAl]

Originally Posted by coilover

The former president of the OCOA has a 62 that just pressurizes the carb which is the later version I'm sure.

The bell housing and transmissions, both auto and standard, were unique to the all aluminum 215 engine.

It's rumored GM tried to buy it back but Rover said no.

All the Jetfires(both years) were draw through, no blow throughs.

The cast iron V-6 of the same era is related and had the same flywheel housing pattern.

When GM asked about buying the engine back, Rover gave them an offer they could refuse.

[1950coronet600hp]

they got the 215 turbo right... wtf happened when they designed the 301 turbo?

[ThunderRocket]

That engine became the SBC of the UK.
Buick and Olds had their own heads but the same basic block.
Pontiac also used the Buick, as well as Rover.

links:
http://www.aluminumv8.com/
http://www.britishv8.org/
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/

[CutawayAl]

Originally Posted by 1950coronet600hp

they got the 215 turbo right... wtf happened when they designed the 301 turbo?

That engine came near the peak of GM's, we are GM so we can get away with anything design and engineering approach.

[DeucePhaeton]

That was a time because of emissions and carburetors, the output of our engines sucked across the boards. It wasn't until years later and the advancement of EFI did we start seeing performance gains.
It was a SAD time in automotive performance history esp. if you lived thru the 60s and aspired to own a factory muscle car.

[CutawayAl]

Originally Posted by DeucePhaeton

That was a time because of emissions and carburetors, the output of our engines sucked across the boards. It wasn't until years later and the advancement of EFI did we start seeing performance gains.
It was a SAD time in automotive performance history esp. if you lived thru the 60s and aspired to own a factory muscle car.

True, but 301 engined sucked mechanically as well.

[JEM]

The 215 turbo was not really done right, 11:1 compression with a turbo in the pre-EFI, pre-variable-cam-timing days was not a good idea.

It was an era when GM was trying everything, though. Some worked, some didn't. Much of what worked was thrown out anyway, usually because it was relatively expensive and GM was unwilling to take the time to work the costs down.

So you entered this giant funnel, started in the '50s but accelerated in the middle '60s where all the innovation went in the garbage and every division had its own set of more-alike-than-different iron pushrod V8s with Quadrajets stuck on top, all the divisions moved downmarket to chase volume and cannibalized one another with products more alike than different and a little bigger and a little more ponderous every year, they handed the top of the market to the Germans on a velvet pillow while the Japanese took away the bottom, eventually the divisions were pretty much squeezed down to doing grilles and stripes and the occasional nonsense like the Buick Reatta.

Where the Japanese won wasn't in innovation, it was in production engineering - taking what everyone else figured was too expensive and making it work at the price point they needed.

GM had the 215 and 300 Buick V8s and the '65 Corvair IRS and could have wrapped them up in a Chevelle/Buick Special-sized package by '67 or so but the bean-counters would never have permitted it, the '75 Seville was forgivable as a first attempt (though it was reacting to Merc and BMW models introduced seven years earlier) but the FWD '81 thing was a joke, GM had enough trouble in the '70s but they fell off a cliff product-wise in the early '80s.

[flamingokid]

And let's not forget the wonderful diesel engines that damn near tanked the diesel market for everybody.

[ThunderRocket]

Originally Posted by JEM

GM had the 215 and 300 Buick V8s and the '65 Corvair IRS and could have wrapped them up in a Chevelle/Buick Special-sized package by '67 or so but the bean-counters would never have permitted it,

They did, it was called the Tempest, and eventually got the 326ci in '63.

[5window]

My dad had one as I was just starting to get into cars. He paid $300 more for it over the straight carbed model and it was in the shop a lot-Olds mechanics couldn't quite keep the turbo in order. It was worth $300 less than a carb model when he traded it in in '65. Wish I had it now-that thing would flat out scoot! I saw one at Hershey for $15K-too rich that day.

[dodored]

I always liked the all aluminum design, so recently I am building one for my model A roadster. I used the 4.6 liter Range Rover long block and bolted all the 215 Buick stuff the the outside of it. Check out the reinforced webbing in the block along with cross drilled main caps. Pretty beefy design. With a 4 speed and a quick change should be a potent lightweight package.

[Ebbsspeed]

Difference between Olds and Buick versions were primarily the heads and valve angles. The Olds has 6 head bolts around the circumference of each cylinder, the Buick only 5, because the 6th one would get in the way of some valvetrain. The blocks run down the Buick line had the boss for the 6th headbolt, but it wasn't drilled and tapped. You can run Buick heads on an Olds block and Vice Versa, and use whatever bolt pattern happens to match. The Buicks had valve covers that were "flat", so they looked like a small nailhead, where the Olds head configuration is such that the valve covers are slanted.

The Pontiac Tempest has also been mentioned. GM did some pretty cool stuff with the early 60's Tempests as well. One half of a 389 V8 (slant four) with "rope drive" to a transaxle IRS in the rear, resulting in pretty close to a 50/50 weight distribution and excellent road course manners.

[wingnutz]

That engine was small enough to run in the "Midget Class" however they weren't allowed to run the turbo!

There are a couple of vintage Midgets running at "Angel Park" with the Buick Pin Head motors... and I heard there is an "Olds" version in the restoration process.

[JEM]

Originally Posted by ThunderRocket

They did, it was called the Tempest, and eventually got the 326ci in '63.

Close, but the flexi-whip driveshaft was one of those GM ideas that didn't work, and GM gave up on the whole concept before the good '65 IRS came out.

[TurboShadow]

That is just flat awesome. I cut my automotive teeth with turbo/efi bangers and have a NASTY boost addiction. At one time I owned 5 cars, and only one of them didn't have a hair dryer . This is neat, because it does prove a turbocharged car could be traditional. WITH a wastegate and WITH water injection! While not popular, it was a option! I find it really funny about how mechanics couldn't figure these things out. A turbo system like these cars have had to be rather simple (by today's standards) but the turbos where ALWAYS the problem. Same thing happened in the 80s when turbos made a reappearance in common cars, often the turbo was blamed, because no one knew, or wanted to learn the new technology. Just like it did in the 60's!

[RidgeRunner]

Lady in our commute car pool bought one when they first came out. Cool gal, had swaped a hi-po something for it. After the turbo lag the power came on like another passing gear, what a rush. Had all kinds of intermitant trouble with it, starting, missing, quiting, etc. Being new tech at the time the turbo system got all the initial blame, dealer even got the factory reps involved. After spending the better part of a year verifying the turbo system then replacing various wiring harnesses they finally found the problem was a defective from new ignition switch. Replaced it and no more problems driving it like she stole it. But by then she had lost confidence in the car's reliability and swapped it in a little sooner than her usual every 2 years.

Always thought there was too much potential there for GM to give up on so soon and wonderd on how many other cars did the turbos take the rap for other problems?

Ed