History Searching for 1948 Tucker photos

[Tucker Fan 48]

Originally Posted by gyronaut

The more I look at this photo, the more I think it was taken at the Tucker plant during one of the last sales meeting held there. If so, then I would think that the Miller race car would be one of the ones in Preston Tucker's collection that he stored at the plant. That's Alex and Chrissie Tremulis.

Whatever happened to Tucker's personal car collection? Was it auctioned off with the rest of the Tucker assets? Anyone have any idea???

I don't know if Preston had a very large collection of cars. There was nothing sold at the Plant auction that was his. He did own two Tuckers. #1029 and #1031. He sold #1029 in 1955 and Vera Tucker sold #1031 in 1962. In talking with people in Ypsilanti I did not get the idea that Preston had a lot of money at the end. The Tucker Special was still racing in 1950. I believe it had been renamed Chicago Special or something like that. It was no longer owned by Tucker.

[Tucker Fan 48]

Poof gone

Maybe now we can go back to some constructive discussions

[Kustom Komet]

Originally Posted by Tucker Fan 48

Maybe we should just ask the readers of this thread.

Do you want to hear more about the "CONvertible" or do we want to continue with the conversation we've had for 40+ pages now?

Here's my opinion. The thread was better without all the bickering. I'm a regular type HAMB member here. I know that the convertible isn't a factory produced car, and I think that by now, the whole world does too. But is IS nice, looks very proportionate and correct, and I don't think that anyone here would kick it out of his collection. Deriding it as a CONvertible or a pile of parts is petty and borderline spiteful, it's an interesting variation on an interesting car. As for whether I need to read more about it here, I don't mind that. It was made from parts of other Tuckers, and listing what came from where and when is part of the subject.

-KK

[Tucker Fan 48]

Here is a photo from about a year ago of Tucker #1046.

[Tucker Fan 48]

Originally Posted by Kustom Komet

Here's my opinion. The thread was better without all the bickering. I'm a regular type HAMB member here. I know that the convertible isn't a factory produced car, and I think that by now, the whole world does too. But is IS nice, looks very proportionate and correct, and I don't think that anyone here would kick it out of his collection. Deriding it as a CONvertible or a pile of parts is petty and borderline spiteful, it's an interesting variation on an interesting car. As for whether I need to read more about it here, I don't mind that. It was made from parts of other Tuckers, and listing what came from where and when is part of the subject.

-KK

Kustom Komet you make an excellent point. I apologize if I came across that way. I think that comes from past history with this particular poster the obcession that the car is somehow a factory convertible. Unfortunately there are a few in "the whole world" that still try to pawn it off as real. As a historian that usually gets me torked.

There have been several listings over the years of where each part came from. Those lists are usually attacked by this poster with off the wall accusations and statements.

As I mention before, there are hundreds of sites on the interent that discussed the convertible. There are even some on the HAMB. I'm just suggesting our friend move his posting over to one of those where I'm sure he'll get a much better audience.

As Rodney King said "can't we all get along?"

[bajones238]

Originally Posted by FC49

How is that a 1949? It looks like the 1948s.

Frank C.

You are correct, I didn't look at my own picture closely enough (the display sign says 1948), and I relied on the '49 tag. Sorry for the confusion.

[FC49]

Originally Posted by bajones238

You are correct, I didn't look at my own picture closely enough (the display sign says 1948), and I relied on the '49 tag. Sorry for the confusion.

It wasn't until I got hooked on this thread that I knew a '49 model, with significant differences from the '48, even existed. And I've been a student of Tuckerabilia since I was 7. Not a historian, mind you, but a consumer of the historian's work.

As for the ragtop, my feeling is, who cares? If the Tucker had gone into production, it wouldn't have been long before either the factory would have done a drop-top or a conversion house would have done them, the same way that '53 Studebaker Starlight convertibles, Volvo P1800 roadsters and several others have been created by small shops over the years. Maybe Studie and Volvo historians don't look kindly on them, but they exist and are interesting artifacts in their own right.

IMO, it only becomes a problem when someone attempts to create a false history of a cut car, which is tantamount to "cloning" a Tempest coupe into a GTO and not revealing its bogus provenance. And from what I can tell, no one now pretends the Tucker ragtop is anything other than a very well-made tribute car.

So it's all good.

Frank C.

[gyronaut]

So if the body of #57 was separated from its frame and firewall in 1957, then whatever became of the discarded body with the modified rear window?

Did the person who witnessed the cutting also see what happened to the body after it was removed?

And exactly what condition was the body in when it was removed from the frame?

Did the decision to make it into a convertible happen in 1957? Or was that decision made before or after the separation?

It's just that #57 happens to be one of the most important Tuckers along with the Tin Goose, and these questions about its history never did get put to rest on the other site. I know it was 55 years ago, but a first-hand eyewitness account of the events goes a long way over hearsay...

[Tucker Fan 48]

Originally Posted by gyronaut

So if the body of #57 was separated from its frame and firewall in 1957, then whatever became of the discarded body with the modified rear window?

Did the person who witnessed the cutting also see what happened to the body after it was removed?

And exactly what condition was the body in when it was removed from the frame?

Did the decision to make it into a convertible happen in 1957? Or was that decision made before or after the separation?

It's just that #57 happens to be one of the most important Tuckers along with the Tin Goose, and these questions about its history never did get put to rest on the other site. I know it was 55 years ago, but a first-hand eyewitness account of the events goes a long way over hearsay...

These are all good questions. Let me try to answer them.

Body #1057 sat in a farm field from October 1950 until 1957. It was just a steel body with no paint or primer. After seven years of Illinois weather there was not much left.

The reason the body was cut off was to make the car into to a "cutaway" display for the Fabulous Tucker show. They wanted to show what the inner workings of the car looked like. Since there was not much left of the body cutting it away really didn't take much thought. After all, who knew in 1957 that a Tucker would be worth 2.9 million someday? The old rusty scrap metal was simply tossed out. There was never any thought of making it into a convertible. It was simply a prop for a show.

Once the body was cut away they discovered one problem. The frame without the body was not strong enough and the frame sagged in the middle. Putting an engine in it was out of the question. To solve the problem they reinforced the frame. This solved the sagging in the frame.

The car was stored with the rest of the Fabulous Tucker cars under the Michigan State Fairgrounds Grandstand. One by one the cars were sold off and in 1967 the "cutaway" frame and firewall were sold.

Fast forward 40+ years and a story starts to take hold about a mystery car. Soon the "out the back door" story is born. It begins to take a life of its own. Documents start to show up that are a bit fuzzy but are said to somehow prove the car is real.

What wasn't counted upon was Life Magazine releasing photos from 1950 clearly showing Body #1057 exactly where Alex Tremulis said it was left when the plant closed. The "story" about the car starts to unravel. Then an expert comes forward with a signed statement saying he saw the car under the Michigan State Fairgrounds Grandstand in 1966. The story unravels more because how could the car be in Michigan in 1966 when it was said to be in a garage at 61st and Halstad in Chicago at that time?
Soon afterward more people come forward that saw the car and know its complete history. A letter is uncovered dated 1954 from the man that bought the bodies at the Plant auction. In the letter he talks of having one body that has a large back window unlike any other body. At that point the story falls apart completely.

What I find interesting about the entire thing is that a story was made up to make the car more valuable. Once the story was told the only way to retract it would be to admit it was not true. What is funny is they had one of the most valuable bodies all along and never knew it. By the time the truth was finally uncovered the car was completed as a convertible. Maybe if the story had not been told many years earlier the real origin would have been uncovered sooner.

The car could still be restored. Many rare cars have been restored using much less to work with. There are several photos that show the big back window. With the capabilities we have today someone could figure out the exact size and location of the window. I would not be surprised if drawings even exist. I suspect one day someone will restore it. Maybe not soon but someday.

I'll post a photo of Body #1054 showing what it looked like after years outdoors. I suspect #1057 looked a lot like it. Also I'll post the Life Magazine photo that shows #1057 at the plant. If you look closely in front of the car you'll see the floor is stained. That is from the clay when the Tin Goose was designed.

[mgtstumpy]

Fascinating reading

[gyronaut]

Originally Posted by Tucker Fan 48

What is funny is they had one of the most valuable bodies all along and never knew it. By the time the truth was finally uncovered the car was completed as a convertible.

The irony of it would even impress the master storyteller himself, Rod Serling, and rank right up there with the best in the 'Zone...

[cmyhtrod]

There is an article in the current issue of Hemmings Collector Car about the Tucker that raced in NASCAR

[Still_Crazy]

Originally Posted by Tucker Fan 48

Tucker #1043 sold today for $2,650,000 or $2,915,000 with the buyer premium.

A new record for a Tucker.

Top sale of the auction. What has vaulted Tucker to fame after being an also ran for so many years?

[Dakota]

Im sorry but it may hve real tucker parts on it, but the truth is they never made one and this is a phantom car. to think that it would be worth MOre than an Original is absolutely insane.

Im not saying its worthless, it is a very nice car, and has some history, even though the builders tried to lie about it.

But it comes down to the fact that its a modified original.

You compare it to a Ferrari Daytona convert and a real spyder, How about comparing it to a Modifed non numbers matching ZL1 Camaro? how does that affect the value....

it will never be worth what an original is.

[VirgilHilts]

ibtl

[gyronaut]

Just one last observation, Tucker Fan 48, if you will…


The way I see it is that #57’s body was cut off to SAVE the car for future generations to enjoy. Had it not been rescued and repaired by reinforcing the frame, it most likely would have ended up as scrap to help fund the efforts of the other Fabulous Tuckers. I’d bet that it wasn’t scrapped due to its owner’s reverence for the marque.


The anger that the convertible Tucker generates isn’t directed at the car itself, but rather at the SOB that created the fake story of the secret convertible project. The convertible story was created solely in an attempt to deceive and bilk an unsuspecting buyer of the car out of their cash. To desecrate the memories of Preston and Vera Tucker, Joe Lencki, Alex Tremulis and all the former Tucker employees solely for the seller’s financial gain is irreprehensible. Any and all statements the seller made about this car, any other car, or anything else, cannot and should not be relied upon.

As far as actual and/or punitive damages the current owner may claim against the sellers, that’s a tough one. Although probably fraudulently sold, the buyer eventually ended up with a truly unique frame and cowl that’s probably worth more than the recreation that sits on top of it. And there’s the irony: In an attempt to defraud and deceive, the seller let go a truly unique piece of history. And in the process, he actually devalued the car and left money on the table. Had he just researched a bit deeper, he could have been a hero to the profession rather than someone who is reviled as a liar and a cheat due only to his own selfish greed. The criminal genius was so proud of his gold medal that he had it bronzed!

So the sad part is that the convertible, although pretty, is a grim reminder of the worst of human behavior by its former owner inflicted upon the public. I’d say rescue #57 out from under its tarnished skin.


'Nuff said...

[HuskyV8]

A few years ago I saw the yellow Tucker owned by Bev in San Francisco. It was cruising down 19th Avenue. A wonderful sight.

[Tucker Fan 48]

Originally Posted by HuskyV8

A few years ago I saw the yellow Tucker owned by Bev in San Francisco. It was cruising down 19th Avenue. A wonderful sight.

#1041 is one of my favorites. It is the most photographed Tucker. The yellow color somehow just looks great on the car even though it was not a factory color. Bev was a great mechanic so it is one of the more roadworthy Tuckers although #1008 runs like a champ.

The ride and comfort of any Tucker is amazing. Way ahead of their time.

[Pro Stock John]

I greatly appreciate threads like this, so much information is shared.

I am interested in the efforts to build how should i phrase it, cars from the spare parts. Is there one or two builds going on, and do any of them use frames from the first cars and so how are they perceived?

[Tucker Fan 48]

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

I greatly appreciate threads like this, so much information is shared.

I am interested in the efforts to build how should i phrase it, cars from the spare parts. Is there one or two builds going on, and do any of them use frames from the first cars and so how are they perceived?

There is one build from spare parts going on. Another person that hopes to start one. One car that was converted to a front engine has been restored and is nearly completed. Another car that was converted to a front engine is just about to start restoration.

Two other Tuckers have begun full restorations on them.

The "parts car" that is under contruction is using a "test frame" that was used by the Tucker Corporation during testing of the drivetrain. It is much heavier than a standard frame but is simular. The car is what it is, a car from parts. The owner does not try to fool anyone. He is using the firewall from body #1052 so some do refer to it as #1052. It will consist of about 80% Tucker parts. They have to fabricate part of the roof and one door. The front and rear clips are 100% Tucker as are most of the doors. The frame was made by Tucker but is slightly different than most cars. The owner has an interior from a Tucker. Suspension and other parts are also Tucker. When completed I doubt most people will be able to tell the difference between it and the first 50 cars. I'd expect it will always be worth somewhat less than the others. If the car comes up for sale down the road it will be interesting to see how collectors treat it.