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Old 10-22-2010, 09:02 AM   #1
Ryan
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Default A Historic Track Roadster



I haven't featured a classified ad in a while and figured now was as good a time as any. Our good pals in Dallas that make up the Scorpion Racing Team lost a member not long ago - Bill Collins. Bill was one of the most recognizable faces on the team ...

To read the rest of this blog entry from The Jalopy Journal, click here.
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:44 AM   #2
Dan Hay
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

The engine bay is so long it makes me wonder what used to lurk under that hood... chevy 6? Buick straight 8? 2 V8 60's? It would be cool if anyone could dig up old pics of the car.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:12 AM   #3
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Cool car that has the look of being straight out of earlier times.

The good point of buying a car like that is that it does have some history. The bad is that quite often anything you change on it will most likely get someone's nose out of joint somewhere along the line.
it would be great with a wild flathead but I think that under the hood I'd just loose the "too streetroddy" items and make it look like it was done pre 60 but very nicely done. Maybe a chrome tube upper radiator hose replacement and a more traditional air cleaner.
The car needs bright paint though be it yellow, orange, red or ????? Solid color with no metallic.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:17 AM   #4
theHIGHLANDER
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

I think some cosmetics here and there and "fix" the engine like Mr48 says, it's a winner. In the case of this car I agree with Ryan's blog entry, history is in it already and it's now making it's own history as it moves on. No rules. For me it's a bucket list car but there's too much on top of that bucket's contents. I see it really dark green with a fresh set of rugs, tidy up the existing upholstery, new dash facing either in woodgrain or a real chunk of walnut, change the wheels to a nice period tan color or maybe even a real off white. Overall, I really like it.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:23 PM   #5
catdad49
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

I believe I saw this car at the 1st Hot Rod Reunion at Beech Bend. It had the "old timey" look to it and I thought it was pretty sweet (I still do). Got a pic somewhere!! Have a safe weekend,Cat
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

That thing is spot on!!
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Old 10-22-2010, 05:31 PM   #7
BrerHair
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Apologies in advance for muddying up your cool clear water, Ryan. A beautiful roadster, a tasteful "for sale" post for a friend, a great little car for a reasonable price. I'm sure you did not intend for this post to start a discussion about "period correct". But seeing the sbc in a beautiful '27 roadster, got me to thinking.

Ya'll will think I'm nuts, but I actually think that the sbc speaks volumes about this car's history. Good or bad, right or wrong, "traditional" or not, "period correct" or not, one has to appreciate where the needle pointed in the 70's. It did not point exactly where it does now.

The "rules" for traditional or "period correct" were much looser. Or put it this way, the closer you are to the date of origin (1927 or 1950's, when it was rodded, take your pick), the less restrictions there are as to what you can do to a car that will get folks upset.

Say the sbc was installed in 1975. That's 48 years since the car was rolled off the assembly line, and approx. 20 years since it was hot-rodded. Take a 48 year old car today . . . anything from 1962 . . . what is "traditional" ? A '62 Chevy II, or Catalina, or Galaxie, whatever, that was "rodded" in 1980 . . . wouldn't whatever was done to it in 1980 speak volumes about where the needle pointed in the '80's/late '70's? And likewise, wouldn't it be pretty wide open today as far as what you could do with it (without getting the gang upset)?

So, in 1975, the concept of dropping in a late model sbc into a '27 hot rod was different than it is today. A different paradigm. So what we really have before us is a 70's take on a 50's hot rod. One snapshot of the rodding world from circa 1975. And it includes a sbc. This snapshot is 35 years old. When does it become "history"?

I understand that the car would appeal to more hot rodders today (and have more value) with a period correct flathead. The period being the 50's when it was rodded. I often think that we get too hung up on "rules", the main rule being "whatever they did in the 40's and 50's".

I'm not trying to take a stand here, I agree that whatever they did in the 40's and 50's was about the coolest shit to ever come down the pike. I guess I'm just taking the long road to saying that while, at first, I did a double take on the sbc, after further consideration, it is actually kind of cool. It is certainly different, from a different time and place.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

I don't usually read other's comments until after I post mine,but after BrerHair's, I'm going to take a chance and add to my previous post. When I saw this car before, it was sitting as pictured. I had no idea what it was powered by and,honestly, I didn't care! Let's try to be a little more open-minded and appreciate some things for what they are, not what we want them to be. Hey, there are lots of mods. that could of been done to this car over the course of time, many far worse than an engine change. You all have a great weekend, Cat
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

OK, I'm old. But I remember a time when everyone would have killed to have a 265/283/327 in their rod. Sorry, but thats true-and traditional. Its the engine that showed the flathead ford the door.
You can call them "bellybuttons" or whatever, but that was the engine we all lusted for. Its a great car, and I'm not sure I'd change anything.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
OK, I'm old. But I remember a time when everyone would have killed to have a 265/283/327 in their rod. Sorry, but thats true-and traditional. Its the engine that showed the flathead ford the door.
You can call them "bellybuttons" or whatever, but that was the engine we all lusted for. Its a great car, and I'm not sure I'd change anything.
I am a little younger than you Chaz and doing the 265-283 thing in my Tudor! Dads 65 and doing the same in his 56 Chevy.

As for this cool little roadster............I am torn. I do not know what I would do other than drive it.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Its good as is.Send it to me and I'll leave it alone
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

sad to see what someone has done to it.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny bondo View Post
sad to see what someone has done to it.
Why is it sad? BrerHair nailed it. Sad would be it rolled out under a damp tree 45 years ago and let to rot.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

I like '27 roadsters. I like this car. When I look at it I see a car built a long time ago when hood shapes, track noses nerf bars were created in your own garage out of your own sense of style. This gave cars their own personality, which mirrored the personality of the owner. Fast forward a few decades. Stuff has become readily available from retail stores. Its easier/cheaper to buy that glass track nose and hood than beat one out of aluminium. Styles change. this car looks like it was rebuilt on the '70/'80s. We tend to look back with distain at times at that era. Disco, polyester suits, death of the muscle car etc etc.
Compare this car with the green '27 roadster Pete Chapouris built for his dad back in the '70s. It had a V6, disc brakes, and billet windshield posts and a billet rear view mirror. I love that car. To me it is the benchmark for all '27 roadsters.
So lets embrace what is great about this roadster and lets change the stuff that dates it to the '70s.
1. Change the tyres to blackwall bias ply.
2. Take out the dash. Paint the orange surround yellow to match the body. Engine-turn the dash. Reinstall the dash.
3. Replace the steering wheel with a Bell 4 spoke or a '40 Ford wheel.
4. Remove the SBC. paint it orange to match the wheels. Change air filter to a Hellings style, or even go to a tri-power!! Reinstall motor.
5. Replace the radiator hoses with rubber.
6. Add some subtle pinstriping.
7. Replace the rear view mirror with something chrome, more period looking.

At this point we have a car built in the '40/'50s that was updated in the '50/'60s when the overheads took over. It still has the personality of its unique hood, nose and grille, but with the updates we can live with better.
My ramblings, sorry.
Cheers,
Stewart.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Do you have any idea where that car came from? It looks very similar to one that Pat Ganahl wrote about in an early issue of Rodders Journal. It had been built in the late forties with a Dodge or Chrysler six for power, as the owners father was a Mopar dealer. It languished for many years partially complete, until the late eighties when it was sent to a painter who was told to paint it one color, and painted it yellow anyway.
I don't have time right now to do the research, but it is in one of the lower number Rodders Journals, like #15 or less. # 7 rings a subconscious bell, but like I said, I don't have time this morning to check. Anybody have a complete set to check me?
To hell with it, I checked!!! so much for being a responsible business man!!! That's it! I even nailed the issue too! The article is call '27 times two and it also talks about the best late fifties early sixties '27, the Andrade - Crvalho car. Gives the full story on this one.
Sorry, I thought I had entered number 11 in my initial post. # number 11 is the proper issue, so I didn't nail it!
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:11 AM   #16
Tman
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Cool Chip, sucks that I auctioned off that issue tho! DOH!
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

Other than driving it just like it is (after putting in one of the smaller repo '40 Ford steering wheels) the only change I'd make is reinstalling a flathead. If I were bucks up it would be a Motor City Flathead w/Ardun heads and a 5 speed.

Frank
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

I'll jump in her to give you guys some details on this roadster...
The car was built in the50s,by MarkMunzell.Dallas,Texas,flathead/
39 top loader.std banjo rear.Painted brite Red...The car sat in Marks garage for many years.After Bill acquired it he had Mike Minette,build a new frame for it.Bill used all the original sheet metal for his rebuild..Installed a V-8 Chev and a Columbia rear
painted it the yellow you see.Bill brought the car to me and I did the top and interior..When Bill passed away 3-4 years ago,The car went to his daughter Kelly,who owns it now..The car has been in many magazines and the cover of one."Roadsters and Ragtops"
articles were all by Calvin Mauldin.Bill Collins and I were both members of the original Scorpion 1 dragster of Bobby Langley.
We were in attendence at the CHHR and Bowling Green with Bobby,Ruth and Don Ross..also the Roundup.
Who ever buys this care should LEAVE IT ALONE...it is genuine 50s roadster...
Bill Collins was a big H.A.M.B.fan

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Old 10-23-2010, 02:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

wbrw32, I am humbled - you are right! I forgot all about that car. I pulled my copy of Roadsters and Rag tops and did a comparo. Other than the nose the two cars are eerily similar. Not too many '26 '27 T s running around that somebody took the time to shrink the rear fender well bumps out of. Should have looked a little closer at hairpins verses split bones too. Makes me wonder what happened to the other one though. That article is about fifteen years old now.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: A Historic Track Roadster

The only change I'd make on it is ditch the Grant wheel. Other than that, I like the car as-is. It is cool, plus with the verifiable history, helps a ton!
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