FLATCAD RACING Bonneville 2011 Build

[sodas38]

Man that 38 looks mean. Love the way it looks with the motor in there, and yes I would have guessed it would stick out alot further than that. Great looking car.

[pops29]

I Want to give it a Hug !!!

[Bored&Stroked]

Thursday Evening Update: Magical Mushrooms . . . Psychedelic Man

I've just finished the work on the 'magical mushroom' lifters. We've replaced the stock hydraulic mushroom lifters with some flathead Chrysler mushroom lifters. I got the idea from Barney Navarro about 25 years ago - to put them in flathead Fords . . . but they actually work really nice in the FlatCad. The bigger the lifter base diameter, the faster the cam opening ramp can be (which is good on a flathead - no rocker arms to multiple anything!).

1) The length is just about perfect.
2) The body diameter is smaller than the FlatCad valve lifter blocks, so Buddy had the lifter blocks bronze bushed for me.
3) We have about .0015 clearance

The cam pattern was designed for a 1.260 lifter diameter, so I had to turn the bases of all of them down on the lathe - about .023 reduction in the diameter. The second reason I turned them is so the foot doesn't hit the cam lobes of the adjacent valve. The FlatCad is a funny beast out of ALL the lifters, there are two that come close to the cam lobes - why only two ??? . . . who the hell knows, just isn't symmetrical.

As you can imagine, they're harder than hell, but good ole' carbide was able to cut them . . . just took a long time.

We have 20 lifters (4 spares) . . . glad this job is over . . . boring as all hell.

Tomorrow I'll be fitting the lifter blocks, lifter block girdle supports and hopefully finishing the valves by sometime Saturday.

Chris is coming over on Sunday to help with the plumbing - probably while I'm working on the dry-sump mount (which is a real PITA).

Here are the lifters . . .

[neverdun]

Great looking powerplant. How far off the ground is the oil pan?

[38FLATTIE]

neverdun, it's about 3-1/2".

Haha! Great story, Dale! The engine is coming along great!

Actually, we've been exploring the use of the lifters, with bushings, on this engine for a couple of years:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...332457&page=13

On another note, Pete1 has been busy designing new square roller lifters, that should work great!

I've been looking for what I thought was the 'perfect' front wheel fairing design. I've settled on a modified variation of what the old Lockhart car ran.

Garry is making great progress on his Flatcad porting work, achieving 200 CFM on the #5 and ##6 intake ports. Now, he just has to match the other 6 intakes with them!

Garry added a second intake gasket, .050" thick, and flowed our design again. The flow went from 166 CFM to 173 CFM- looks like it may be a transfer area issue. Garry is making some mods to the design, and will flow it again next Thursday.

Also, I have some very big, and important announcements coming up, so stay tuned!

[neverdun]

One of my favorite threads. I saw you running last summer on the salt but i couldn't get over to say hi. Keep it up!

[fenderless]

Looking great guys

I know it's early, but what's the racing shedule for 2012?
looks like it's gona be difficult to make speed week for us,
but we really what to see the flatcad fly!

Br
Norwegian Fan's
Sidewinder with crew

..............................
Taildragger&fenderless

[Bored&Stroked]

Sunday Evening Update - The Valve Setup is done -- Whew Hoo!

Chris and I completed all the valve and lifter block assembly process today - even managed to set the lash on all the valves.

Setting lash is one big PITA - as you can't get to the lifter to hold it and adjust the tops unless you have the lifter on the nose of the cam (so it pops out of the bushing). This means you rotate the crank/cam until a valve is up, adjust it and guess a bit, then rotate it back down to measure . . . rinse and repeat . . . takes a few hours with two guys working together! Chris got a workout today on the breaker bar.

The specs for the valve lash are .010 exhaust and .012 intake - hot. Given that is sure as hell isn't hot, I added .002 to both for a cold lash setting. This is a good scwag . . . hopefully we don't have to adjust them again - as it will be a big bitch once the engine is in the car. The whole top of the motor has to come off!

Here is a picture in the valve/valley - without the oil pressure lines or girdle plates installed (they will go in later this week!). Sure is a funky looking part of the FlatCad - just sort of weird all the way around.

Lots to do . . . have to keep cranking away!

[roseville carl]

Congrats Dale....one foot in front of the other...........

[idocadd]

Originally Posted by 38FLATTIE

neverdun, it's about 3-1/2".

Haha! Great story, Dale! The engine is coming along great!

Actually, we've been exploring the use of the lifters, with bushings, on this engine for a couple of years:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...332457&page=13

On another note, Pete1 has been busy designing new square roller lifters, that should work great!

I've been looking for what I thought was the 'perfect' front wheel fairing design. I've settled on a modified variation of what the old Lockhart car ran.

Garry is making great progress on his Flatcad porting work, achieving 200 CFM on the #5 and ##6 intake ports. Now, he just has to match the other 6 intakes with them!

Garry added a second intake gasket, .050" thick, and flowed our design again. The flow went from 166 CFM to 173 CFM- looks like it may be a transfer area issue. Garry is making some mods to the design, and will flow it again next Thursday.

Also, I have some very big, and important announcements coming up, so stay tuned!

This is my first post so do not know if this is the right way to contact you. I am a friend of Pete Samuelson and just spoke with him as how to contact you. Also a friend of Joe at RotoFaze and live in CA. I would like to meet up with you during the dyno run. Could I take some pictures? When and where?

[38FLATTIE]

Ummmm, no- you sound like an industrial spy! I think you're trying to steal our 70+ year old technology!

The mere mention of those two dubious fellows, in the same sentence as a camera, make your motives suspect.

Seriously though, welcome to the board! I PM'd my contact info, so that we can make the arraignments to meet up.

[38FLATTIE]

We have sent support tee shirts all over the world- Canada, Japan, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, New Zealand, Australia, The U.K, and of course, the good 'ol U.S.A -I hope I haven't forgotten anyone!

I'd like to say THANK YOU for all the support!

SportSedan, from Finland, sent me this- he was going to post it, but had problems doing so. This REALLY made my day!

Originally Posted by SportSedan

Buddy,

Did have today quit hard day in work(Blumber), but when i did came home and went to the Mailbox it came.
And even betterwhen i openit and those shirts look awesome,very nice.

Thanks a lot for saving my day!!,and all the best for you!

Johan

[fenderless]

Does Norway count!?

[38FLATTIE]

Originally Posted by fenderless

Does Norway count!?

Damn! I knew I'd forget one!

Of course Norway counts! We're lucky that you follow us like you do, especially since you're own build is so cool!

Thanks again, Kjell!

[Bored&Stroked]

Thursday Night Update: Welcome to the 'Valley of the Dolls' . . . She's a Strange One Now Aint She?

Just came in from the shop - was waiting on some final bolts, fittings and hardware to complete the whole valley area. Took one of the lifter blocks back out and swapped out two lifters - the adjusters were a bit loose, and it worried me a bit. Hopefully these 'Turkish' made lifters will hold up and we won't have adjuster issues -- will probably buy some 'jamb nuts' to bring to BVille!.

1) Oil Lines and Lifter Blocks: The FlatCad was one of the first V8s with hydraulic lifters - so they needed to pressurize them. BUT - the lifter blocks are removable . . . so they needed special oil lines to deliver pressurized oil to each block. Part of the reason I'm showing you guys this is that I'd never seen anything quite like it until Buddy lassoed me into the FlatCad project. Strange setup, but kind of cool as well!

I installed the oil fittings in the center of the block (they are fed from the outside - middle of the valley - separate exterior oil line). Then I mounted the special FlatCad oil lines . . . DAMN I'm glad Buddy saved these and gave them to me! The alternative would have been about $80 of AN fitting bullshit.



2) Lifter Block Stud Girdle Setup: The stock lifter block setup just used some regular old hardware grade 7/16 bolts to hold each lifter block down (remember, they come out and are not cast into the block).

There are two cast-iron bosses in the engine block (about 1" diameter) that stick out from the valley sides that these the two lifter block bolts go into (total of 8 bolts).

What worried me is that with a MUCH larger cam and much faster opening ramps, combined with a lot more spring pressure, it seems to me that there can be a lot more side-load and overall stress on the lifter blocks, bolts and bosses. With only two 7/16 bolts (sticking way up in the air) . . . just imagine if those cast-iron bosses break off the block! Holy crap, the lifter block/lifters would probably fall into the cam, and the engine would turn into a 'Parts Blender' in a hurry.

So, we decided to use ARP studs instead of bolts - they're much stronger and give consistent torque readings (as we're tightening on the fine threaded end). I torqued them to 70 ft lbs - on the low end of the scale, but I don't want to stress this old block too much!

Then I got the bright (or maybe stupid - you judge!) idea of making 1/4" steel girdle plates to tie the lifter blocks together side-to-side. To me, this makes the whole thing a lot stronger (acts like a integral unit) - and might reduce any tendency for stud flex, boss breakage, etc..

Now - do I know this is even an issue to worry about . . . nope . . . this is just the way I always think. Sometimes it drives Buddy nuts, but heck . . . he puts up with me and my approach to engineering! We're actually a good team - kind of a check and balance system.



After that, I got to thinking about what else is needed to complete the valley . . . as once the intake girdle, blower manifold and blower are on - we don't want to forget about something and have to tear it all down.

Hmmmmm - valley covers (where the hell did I put them???). Found them in a box and then got to thinking about crankcase pressure and breathers. Decided to bore holes in them (they were designed for this) and put 1/2" NPT threads in the holes. This gives us some options to remove crankcase pressure (which is a good thing - especially with a dry sump . . . it needs AIR!).



Here is the valley . . . need to buy more hardware to fasten things down.



We're making really good final progress - still a lot to do, but if no really strange issues show up, hope to get all of this done for Buddy to pick it up next week. Wish me luck gang!

B&S

[38FLATTIE]

I really like the idea of the lifter block girdle setup!

It has come to my attention, though, that we have yet to incorporate duct tape or bailing wire, into this build. I can probably find something on the chassis to use bailing wire on, if you can handle the duct tape!

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by 38FLATTIE

I really like the idea of the lifter block girdle setup!

It has come to my attention, though, that we have yet to incorporate duct tape or bailing wire, into this build. I can probably find something on the chassis to use bailing wire on, if you can handle the duct tape!

Yeah, we can put a duct tape chassis girdle on it --- maybe so our big rears won't "flop around" and break something!

[mctim64]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Now - do I know this is even an issue to worry about . . . nope . . . this is just the way I always think. Sometimes it drives Buddy nuts, but heck . . . he puts up with me and my approach to engineering! We're actually a good team - kind of a check and balance system.

I think you did good Dale. Just reading through the latest posts I was wondering myself if this would be an issue. As you said before it is a bit of a funky set-up and with all the forces added up I would be slightly worried to say the least. I think what you have done covers it well. If it does become a "blender" at least you know you tried.

You guys are doing one Hellava job! Can't wait to see you all at Elmo in May.

[roseville carl]

Wow Dale once again you are thinking out of the box this has and is a great read for anyone trying to do something that hasn't been done, use your head for something besides a hat rack.......... great job and can't wait to hear her run!!!!!!!!

[38FLATTIE]

Originally Posted by roseville carl

.......... great job and can't wait to hear her run!!!!!!!!

Well Carl, the dyno is only about 90 miles from you....