Technical Engine, Early Olds Rocket tech summary.

Ok - here goes:

I've been looking for and summarizing what I can find so far on these engines. The vast majority of the info is from posts on the H.A.M.B. from Yorgatron, BlownOlds, and others, but the seeming authority on thses is Don_Wow. Any of those looking for info search for these three names and you should find some good stuff. Don REALLY seems to have some thorough knowledge with these engines...

Feel free to ad/correct me and I will revise. Just trying to get it all in one place - I have all this so far saved on an MS word file. I will try to edit and/or repost as I learn more.

So without further blabbing...

 

Custom Rodder had an article about early Olds motor (build-up) ‘a few years ago’ by Doc Fromhader

All heads bolt to all blocks, but port size and/or deck height may cause problems, as may valve to cylinder wall clearance (like 394 head on 303), but use appropriate head gasket for the head or you will have oiling problems.

324s were popular hot rodding engines, the 371s/394s were popular race motors through ’64 when the hemis took over.
.
Mopar BB rod bolts can be used for 303/324/371(but not 394?) (call ARP)

Later model Pontiac 400 rods may be able to be used on 303/324 after the sides are ground to make them narrower.

It is possible to use double roller timing chain from GMC 370, but probably more economical/easier to use one from a late BB Olds and have the center reamed/drilled to fit the early motor. See Ross Engines in OH.

56 324 have better flowing heads and bigger cam journals than previous 303/324.

Fewer parts interchange between 303/324/371/394 than the 65-76 engines.

HEAD ID:
#2 early 303
#7 1954
#8 1955
#10 1956

ENGINE PARTS:
http://www.egge.com/
http://www.kanter.com/

Best Gaskets (Tom Joyce distributes)

SPEED EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS (once upon a time)
Cragar – manifolds, adapters
Edelbrock - manifolds, valve covers
Gotha – manifolds, valve covers
Hilborn - duh
Moon – valve covers, valley trays, timing covers
Isky (iskenderian) - valvetrain
Engle - cams)
Offy - Intakes and valve covers
Weiand - intakes

Anything Don Wow says is to be archived.

Headers – two companies once, make your own now.

CID Bore Stroke
303 3.750 3.4375
324 3.875 3.4375
371 4.000 3.6875
394 4.125 3.6875

VALVETRAIN

•Must use adjustable rockers or pushrods with solid cam or roller cam
•Chevy lifters can be used but need shorter pushrods
•Aluminum retainers were available from Isky (maybe others?) – possibly for use with standard locks, but have the problem of pulling through…
•Cheap HP formula: swap early 1.5s to 1.8s, + 4 bbl + headers = 60 hp
•Studebaker rocker arms from 1951-1957 232-259 v8 can be adapted. They have a 1.8:1 ratio
•Stock ratio is 1.5:1 49-51, 1.8:1 for 52-64
•Rocker Arm Specialists in Redding, CA will make aluminum roller rocker setups for early olds engines. Prices vary depending on year.
•DRE, who makes Comp Cams shaft rocker setups, will custom make them for early Olds for big bucks.
•Crane is rumored to be producing early Olds rocker setups soon.
•Comp Cams new beehive springs and retainers may be usable on early Olds. Olds started using beehive springs in ’58.
•Split duration cam 5 degrees more on exhaust, for hot rod setup put lobe center 108-110, lift under .600, advertised duration 290-305.
*****Engle
•PN2711 – grind 134 flat. 288 dur, .460 lift, 3.42 rear. Pulled hard to 6800 rpm, but doggy down low.
•PN2712-grind 153 flat.296 dur, .500 lift, 3000 lb car, 4.56 gear, stick, drove nice & powerful but not good slower speeds
******ERSON
•302 dur, .585 lift. Cool idle, strong everywhere, pulled to 7600. 3.90 rear, 4000 lb car. Good combo.
****CLAY SMITH
•C-284-8-B. 284 dur, .530 lift. Good cam for 324 bored 346. 4000 lb car, 3.90 gears, 12s.
•J-2 cam = Isky E-2 – 270 dur. Made for automatic cars and for “public” (wuss) driveability.

For more see “Olds rocket cam”


Oil filter adapter:
http://webpages.charter.net/dhomstad/
Or grab one off a 394 – bolts right on (a 303 at least) – possibly all?
Get three bolt version, shim gasket, clean, paint alum paint both sides, bolt before dry.


Trans adapters:
Tanson (auto only?) http://www.forwhatyouneed.com/tansonp1.html
Wilcap http://www.wilcap.com/webdoc8.htm
No idea where to get a flywheel to use with a manual trans though…

Cool Olds Rocket threads:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44275&highlight=olds+rocket
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38351&highlight=rocket*

Don_Wow killer 303 recipe:
Any head will bolt on any block, even late 260-455 or Batten. Just try and get somebody to grind a cam to undo the valve tangle. Good Luck.

Safe bore on 303 is + .125,gets you out to 3.875. Any more better check as Nate says. Most will go to 3.9375 =334.86 cu in.Easy way to go is use 56 #10 head swap, bigger valves, better ports, no hassel.

1952 is first year for 1.8 rockers. Clean up combustion chamber and polish,use head gasket for pattern and unshoud around valves. Strighten port from opening to throat and open throat to inside diameter of valve seat.Weld up exhaust port flush on middle port and shape to increase flow.Block off or fill crossover and blend. Mill to get total cc's in neighbor hood of 72-75.

Grind at least 50 grams off rods saving 400+ grams of weight and rebalance.If you want to shoot the moon, stroke to 4.0625 for a.625 inch increase. Gives you a 395.7 incher with 3.9375 bore. Not too shabby for starting with a 303. Can you say torque? With a few other cheap tricks the pumpkin color motor boys are in for a shock.

 

Thanks!

 

looks like a start, I have a couple of scanned pages from the dude up at Rocket Science (ron Jolife ?)will email to you, makes interesting reading, in the I did this and then found you want to check that school....

 

some good info on 394's and other engines can be found on www.http://www.realoldspower.com and http://www.oldsclub.org/ also..just sign up and post some messages.if you go to real olds power there are some guys there that will tell you exactly what needs to be done for big powered 394s,and im sure they can do the same for other old olds engines

 

WOW - this is exactly what i have been looking for!!!

Thanks

 

Thanks that info is great

 

Here is a little info on my rocket started with a 200 hundred block from a flea market.its a 371 punched 40 over,12:1 pistons,polished and ported number 10 heads,1:8 intake 2:25 exhaust valves.crank re balanced, cam custom ground 312 duration,560 lift,109 lobe centre.toped of with a crager manifold,and 6 97 carbs.with a laselle tranny,olds rear 4:11 gears.in a 34 ford roadster.should be fun once i get off my ass and finish it. just need to find a pair of doors.heres a old pic from the sixties.

 

Not sure if this will work, but apparently Pontiac 400 rods have the same big & little end sizes, and the same center to center as a 303/324 rod. The thickness/side clearance is an issue, so the sides would have to be ground, but some patience and a surface plate w/ sand paper would probably do...

I have not confirmed all this, but seems like it would work...

If DON_WOW is out there seeing this, we'd love some pics/info on the head work you've done - combustion chambers and what you do to get/improve the swirl especially.

For those who don't know, he has successfully run over 12:1 compression on 92 octane (for quite a while?). If you search his older posts, there is some good preliminary info on combustion chamber polishing and creating "squish" to make it all work... Pretty damn intelligent if you ask me!

 

it appears realoldspower has gone down,which sucks..there was some good info one there that someone gave me on building up a 394 with bbc pistons and also on stroking it

 

There were 2 Olds builds by Doc Fromader,a "mild' one for Custom Rodder & a "wild" one for Street Rodder. There is Olds stuff from Doc being posted at Webrodder.

 

Looks like it is only down temporarily???

 

It goes down temporarily from time to time.

 

Just some further input.

When swapping heads to a different year, try to use the head gasket that goes with that year head. I know the gasket should also have a reasonable bore size for the block, but what I am thinking of here is that the '59-60 371/394 has a different approach to the passage from the oil hole in the block to the oil hole in the head than does '61-4. One of these carves a passage in the head, the other does it in the gasket. Be careful there.

Mopar rod bolts (I have forgotten if BB or SB) do not work in the 394's. But they do work in 324 (and presumably 303). Not sure about 371, but maybe. When in doubt, check with ARP to see what fasteners they might have (you need to be able to tell them the specs). They have two full-time guys that do nothing but match up custom application stuff with existing stock. Or so ARP told me 5 years ago. The 394 rod bolts do not seem to have a good aftermarket bolt interchangability factor. BUT '65-7 400/425 7" rods will fit right in and then ARP has a bolt for that.

Don't bother with the GMC timing chain. Use a late Olds 330-455 set, then ream the center hole out to the early Olds size (.750"???? will have to check) and drill the three bolt holes in the proper location. If this is too much trouble, for a price you can purchase a ready-done set from Ross Engines in OH. They use the best timing set there is on the market currently-- red-label Rollmaster. They will also modify your top gear for around $25 if you send it to them, so you can likely save some money by picking up a Rollmaster set (or other double-roller set) for late Olds someplace else. Try eBay for the best prices on the Rollmasters. Rollmaster also has undersizes in .002, .004, and I think .006-- this can be helpful if machinework has been done on the saddles/caps.

There were three different camshaft "blanks". Not going to go into specs here, but will just talk about what fits what physically. '49-55 uses a small-journal short cam. The '56-8 cam has the same length as '49-55, but has larger journals. The '59-64 has the same journal size as '56-8, but is 1/4" longer (usually spotted by the gap between the flange and the first journal).

There are some parts that either interchange with the late Olds engines, but they are indeed few. As mentioned above, the late Olds timing set can be used if you modify the top gear. The '61-4 394 uses the same pump as the late Olds, so no problem using a high-volume pump on those years. The late Olds distributor gear should also work in the '61-4 engines, though I don't know if the length of the gear has to be either shortened or shimmed up (I haven't gotten that far yet in trying to use a bronze gear). The late gear should then, logically, work in the '49-60 engines if you change from a D-shaped pump shaft to a hex-shaped pump shaft (custom). The '59-60 371 and '59-64 rod bearings are the same as late BBO 400/425/455.

To add to your head # list: I believe '49-50 did not have any marking on top. Correct me if I'm wrong. #2 seems to me to be '52. #14 and #16 was '57-8 371 (not sure what the difference is in these heads). I have heard of a #17 as being a heavy truck head (yep, some trucks had Olds engines). $18 is '59-60. #20 is '61 non-Starfire. I have heard of a #21 head, but can't confirm. If true, I would have to think it would be an industrial head. But again, I cannot confirm. #23 is '61 Starfire (hence the old-time nickname of "Starfire heads") and all '62-4.

The '61-4 heads have a different bolt pattern on the exhaust than on '59-60.

Engine parts can also be had from Terrill's and Jackson's, both are advertisers in Hemmings Motor News.

Speed equipment, that list is seriously lacking!!!! But for now, let's just add Edelbrock (valve covers, manifolds) to it. Will add more later.

Similarities between the '57-8 371 and '59-60 371's: Same crank FORGING NUMBER (but different journal sizes), same bore and stroke, same oil pump (I think), and same timing chain set. ALMOST everything else is different (there are still a couple other things that are the same). Think of a '59-60 371 as being a small-bore 394.

Chevy lifters cannot be used in '57-64 without re-sleeving the lifter bores back down. The '57-64 engines use a .921 diameter. But for hydraulics, the '65-7 .921 hydraulic lifters can be used. But don't try to use a '57-64 lifter in a '65-7 engine! Late Olds/Pontiac roller lifters are a drop-in for the '49-56 blocks, if building an early race engine with a solid roller cam. That is from Gene Adams who built Ken Bate's engine. For that matter, there is a hydraulic roller retrofit lifter for late Olds/Pontiac as well that I imagine would also work.

Use titanium retainers rather than aluminum retainers, if you think you must have a lightweight retainer. There is a reason they stopped making aluminum retainers.

'59-64 rocker arms are unique-- they are offset (jogged over to the sides).

Will post more if I can reach those dusty areas of my head.

 

many thanks

 

From an old magazine article:

49-55 intakes should all interchange. 56 324s had taller intake ports, bigger valves, but same deck height. The 57 371 had taller deck height, but same intake ports, 59 & up had taller deck than 57-58, but again, same size intake ports as 56 324.

Soooooooo, all 49-55 intakes are created equal. 56 324s sound like they’re a lone wolf, but I seem to see a lot of them… the later engines are alone too – although the port sizes are the same, the deck height will cause intake width problems that will need custom spacers or machine work to swap. This does NOT include all the log style (2 part) manifolds, which should fit either early (short port) 49-55 engines, or late (56-64) engines, depending on which port size they were made for.

Thanks to 55rocket88 for the info!

Also of interest from his articles:

•Early Rocket engines were more durable than the hemis at the time according to fuel racers of the day.
•1hp/ci was difficult but achievable on unblown engines
•Large blown (6-71) engines would make 750hp@6000rpm on pump gas, 1000hp on fuel
•The larger rocket motors were taken out as far as 460 cubes.

As I said before, this is all hearsay, so please let me know/post it if you know different.

BlownOlds - I love you man!

 

Does anyone know if beehive springs and retainers from Comp Cams will fit early olds heads?

I've found adapters, but is there anywhere to get flywheels/pressure plates, etc for rocket motors?

 

I've found adapters, but is there anywhere to get flywheels/pressure plates, etc for rocket motors?[/QUOTE]
I believe tha Suedesled is looking into making the flywheel. Also keep a eye on ebay the flywheels show up from time ti time.
Eric

 

I believe tha Suedesled is looking into making the flywheel. Also keep a eye on ebay the flywheels show up from time ti time.
Eric[/QUOTE]


The larger 394's, with a 5/8 stroker crank and a 4.250 bore (not sure that I recommend that) would be larger than 460".

 

Got some '56 324 (#10) heads today. They appear pretty heavily ported - the center divider on the intake side is thin enough to make me nervous... Weird setup - intakes and exhausts had different stem lengths and diameters, and aluminum retainers. Is this something anyone's seen before or just someone trying to be cheap? Valve job looked fairly fresh, had stiff springs, and aluminum retainers.

FWIW my 6x2 Offy with tall(er) ports matches fairly well. The corners in the head would need to be ground out further and the center built back up a little.

Anyone know of good epoxy for this?

Just wanted to let everyone know what I ran into more than anything. Still learning. I love this place!

I should have a set of #10 stockers to compare them to in a few weeks. After I get them cleaned up I am planning on flowing them both. I'll post the numbers when I get it done if anyone's interested.

 

Early Tech? How about the valvetrain in action?

..the 54 that I got two years ago. Been in storage since 1966. Started it yesterday for the first time...

http://home.att.net/~oldsranch5/movies/HPIM0022.MPG

took a while with me oiling the rockers until it finally started doing it itself.

39 years is too long for an engine to sit, but thankfully it did with the points closed..... all went well until I realized the thermostat was stuck shut, it boiled over, and the fan threw the shit all over me.

 

bttt one more time,

this thread will be moved to the Tech OMatic soon,

if anyone wants to add tech info, please do so now.

thanks.

 

OK here goes;most of you will be building a street engine,like my 324.i recommend stock parts for most of it,you can get stuff from www.kanter.com or www.egge.com or Terrill Machine in Texas 254-893-2610 (no website,but they do have ads in Hemmings Motor News www.hemmings.com )
the machine work from the factory is excellent,the blocks are VERY hard .my machinist fried the motor on his boring bar because he didn't take it slow,i warned him ahead of time and he did it anyway.line boring/honing the mains usually isn't necessary,neither is decking the block unless you just want a .010 cleanup cut.

the crankshaft and rods are both forged,cranks usually only need .010 under grind.i used BB Mopar ARP rod bolts,then had the big ends resized.IMPORTANT!!! install the new rod bolts BEFORE resizing!!! the expensive part is having the small ends rebushed,but what the hell,all the racers use full floating pins,so be glad the Rocket has'em from the factory.

before assembly of the lower end,i like to scrub out the block AT LEAST 3 (three) different times,to make sure all the honing grit is gone.make sure and go through all the oil passages with rifle brushes,remove the two plugs from the lifter oil galleys AND (very important) the plug from the rear of the drivers side oil galley.this plug is accessed from a core plug in the back of the block,and needs an allen wrench to remove it.when you get this plug out,run a wire through it to make sure oil will flow through,that is how the distributor drive gear is oiled.

a good double roller timing chain and gear set is made for the GMC 370 V-8,it will bolt right onto an Olds rocket.

as far as heads,follow DON_WOW's advice above on porting.#10 heads from a '56 Olds are nice to have,but not necessary.#7 or #8 will work fine for the street,especially in heavier cars.a .040 cut on #8 heads will get you about 72cc chambers,and net 9.5:1 compression.#7 heads might need .050,and #10 might only need .030.if you decked your block .010 SUBTRACT .010 from these figures.the intake side of the head will need to be cut also so the intake manifold lines up correctly,i forget the ratio,but will look for it if you send me a PM.


if you want to run a solid lifter cam,you will need adjustable rocker arms.these are made from a rare metal called UNOBTAINIUM.expect to pay a LOT for them,or make your own for a lot less.find a set of Studebaker V-8 rocker arms.you don't need the shafts or rocker stands.use '62 Cadillac rocker shafts,they are the right diameter AND the right length for Olds,the Stude shafts are too short.bore out the Olds rocker stands to the diameter of the Cadillac shafts.also less likely to break than those expensive McGurk rockers you were drooling over on ebay

'49-55 you can use a '56 distributor,it is the GM window style.Crane cams makes an adjustable vacuum advance unit for these,there's also a Pertronix kit for this unit.i like being able to get a cap and rotor at just about any parts store,they're all the same for GM V-8 up to '73 or whenever they got the HEI.

automatic transmissions;i like the dual-range hydra-matic.adjust the bands INTERNALLY (drop the pan) for best results.adjust the kickdown linkage according to the factory manual,keep clean fluid and Trans-X in it,and you will be hard pressed to ever break this mutha somebody makes an adaptor for later transmissions,but they are expensive,and you might have to make a crossmember/mounts etc.
check out http://www.rodnkustom.com/rocketeers/hydramatic/index.html for more info from back in the day.

manual transmission;factory parts are out there,but usually expensive.Northwest Speed is going to come out with some new parts soon,they are good people from what i hear,so check with them.

headers:headers by ed and/or red's headers have flanges,or make friends with someone who's got a plasma cutter.the rest you have to make yourself.you MIGHT find a set of Fenton cast iron headers,or Belond tube type headers,but they are RARE and EXPENSIVE and usually only fit '49-53 round port heads.

well,that's about it from me.try to find the articles that Doc Fromhader wrote for Custom Rodder (324 traditional build) and Street Rodder (394 stroker with modern parts) i have them somewhere,but haven't scanned them yet.

i will be building a 394 for my brother's hudson soon,the crank/rods/pistons are at the balancers right now,so there should be an update soon,alond with an EASY shift improvement modification for hydros.maybe some pictures too!

my Rocket mentor will be building a full tilt 394 soon,he will be using a 455 crank in a 394 block with a .125 overbore for a total of 490 (!) cid

have fun!

 

Awesome thread...

 

Here is a little more info I got from a Paul Smith on here back in 2002......


I lifted this off Dale Wilch's site a couple years ago.
I will try to type it exactly as written.
I don't think he'd mind
and I hope someone finds it useful.


Information Early Oldsmobile

Here's something for everybody that has an interest in the early Oldsmobile V8
OHV engines (1949-1964). This is how it came about. A year ago I got a phone
call from a guy in Wisconsin or where ever he lives and he tells me I'm all
washed up on this old Edelbrock intake manifold I'm trying to sell for this
1956 Oldsmobile. He starts going into port widths, years, and changes ( I was
lost not writing anything down any how) and told him if you think you know so
much why don't you write a book or something to help guys like me out. He said
believe it or not he had documented some good information and would send it to
me. Well it took him some time to get it to me. But I got it now and if you
know how those guys talk in Wisconsin you'll have to read it with the Wisconsin
accent to really get it. I wanted to publish his email and phone number so he
could face the heat if he's wrong or if you want to argue about it, but he made
me use my email if you have some problems or additions or just good BS to ad to
it, be gentle. I do think he's on to something and wish I had this kind of
information on the Buick, Cadillac, Studebaker, Chrysler, Desoto, Dodge and any
other early Detroit engines and iron. Early Olds OHV V8 information from Dennis
Choinski. He's unlisted his phone number and now answers the door with a gun
incase you disagree, so don't try to contact him. Bare Blocks The 1949-1953
same. 1954-1955 larger bore. 1956 larger cam. 1957-1958 larger bore again,
larger mains and lifters, deck height +1/8. 1959-1960 larger bore. (394 engine)
and mains again, oil pump drive changed to hex shaft, deck +1/4 more, cam
longer. 1961-1962 oil pump changed, 1963-1964 front cover changed. Cams +
Lifters The 1949-1955 then the 1956-1958 then the 1959-1964 are the same. In 56
the cam bearings got longer, in 57 the lifters got larger and in 59 the cam got
longer. You can get stock lifters many places, but with the solid lifter cam I
used in my 54 engine only COMP CAMS has lifters. The link bars from the 65 up
engines (330,400,425,455). The lifters are the small block Chevy units for a
high lift or large base circle cam or the 65and up units for the low lift or
small base circle cam. Oil sent up the push rods is not needed but is there
with either of these lifters.Cranks+Rods The 1949-1956 almost same ( different
bolt size for flywheel and damper). 1957-1958 ¼ inch stroke, larger mains, rods
narrower on crank, external balance. 1959-1964 larger mains and rods longer.
The 57 crank (mains turned down) with 57 rods will fit 49-56 engine for ¼
stroke. Can do the same with 59-64 crank with offset grind of rod area for more
stroke and put into 57 engine. Pontiac rods and bearings can fit 1949-1956.
Buick 455 rod bearings fit 1957-1958 grind oil squirt hole. Rods 49-58 6.625"
center to center, 59-64 7.00" center to center. 59-64 rods look like 65 up
Olds, bearing also, some Cadillac bearings will work. Distributors + Oil Pumps
The factor lists only three replacement distributors, 1949-1955, 1956-1958, and
1959-1964. The 49-55 had no window to adjust the points and the advance weights
are below the points. The 56-58 has a window to adjust the points and the
advance weights are under the rotor. The 59-64 has a different gear at the cam
end, a hex shaft goes to the oil pump, instead of a "D" shaped shaft that the
49-58 has. There are different advance curves thru the years and the early
units have timing marks on the distributor. Mallory says all (49-64) are the
same except for the cam end gear. To put a 64 unit in a 49 you would have to
change the gear or change the oil pump to a 59-60 pump which fits the 49-60
engines. To out a 49 unit in a 64 you have to change the gear you cannot use
the earlier oil pump in the 61-64 engines. The gears from 1965 and up
(330,400,425,455) fit and are the hex drive only, they might have different
roll pin or shaft size (.5 or .49) Oil pumps, 1949-1958 all the same. 1959-1960
can be used in 49-58 if you change the gear on the distributor and the shaft
driving the pump. 1961- last of Olds engines, just get the right pickup for
your pan. Flywheels, Starters, Starter housings (lower bell housings) You can
get a manual trans 1949-1964, a Hydro 49-part of 56, a jetaway 56-60 and a Slim
LIM (Roto Hydro) 61-64. 49-53 145 coarse tooth flywheel. 54-60 had a 176 finer
tooth flywheel. 61-64 166 tooth smaller flywheel. Starters 49-53 a 6 volt, 9
tooth course gear, 54-56 a 12 volt, 9 tooth gear, 57-64 new starter bolt
pattern. Housings 49-56 about the same all staters from same years fit. 57-60
ha sdual bolt patterns you can drill and tap for older or newer starters. 61-64
housing is shorter with one bolt pattern for new starter. All housings fit all
engines but watch flywheel size and starter fit. Watch flywheel balance engines
went to external balance in 57. Caddy flywheels can fit but look at balance,
tooth count, size, and some years one bolt moved a bit. Heads + Intakes All
heads bolt to all blocks but, water holes moved so watch head gasket, deck
height changed twice so intakes will not fit without going custom. Thru the
years valves, intake port size, exhaust port size all got larger. Rocker arms
and shafts changed. Rocker ratio changed (1.5-1.8). Log intakes help the deck
height problem. How good can you weld? Mopar (383 or 440) have been made to
fit. I had a chance to buy a 394 with a Mopar aluminum single 4 barrel on it. I
do not own one engine from every year, I only have four so some of this
information comes from books or others and some I have the parts or bought and
know first hand that it is correct. In 1949 and part way into 1950 the rods
were rifle drilled ( had a hole from the crank to piston pin) so a different
bearing was used. Also the distributor had timing marks on it because no damper
was used on the crankshaft only a pulley. Different size bolts were used on the
flywheel and crank pulley than later years, different size push rods were used,
and last the the front of the block had a bolt on cam thrust plate that later
years did not. You can replace these parts and make the 1949 the same as them.
1956-1958 cams can interchange but original 56 cams had lobes that were not as
wide to go with the smaller lifters. Replacement cams were all the same wide
lobes. The 400 Pontiac rod bearings have the same part number as Olds in my
bearing book. I bought a 400 rod. It has the same 6.625 center same rod bearing
and same piston pin and the same width as the 49-56 Olds rod but is very heavy
duty. The rod bearings from Olds 400,425,455 have the same number as the 59-64
Olds. The rods from old 400, the 425 look much like rods from 59-64 394's. The
rod bearings from 455 Buicks will work in 57-58 Olds rods. Big block Chevy main
bearings except #5 have same inside and outside diameter but are wider than
57-58 Olds mains. Can a bearing be cut down? JULY 1957 HOT ROD MAGAZINE told
how you could put 57 engine parts in 54 engine (49-56). You can use pistons,
rods, heads, ect. NOVEMBER 1963 HOT ROD MAGAZINE told how you could use factory
cranks to stroke engines. 59 crank offset ground into a 57. JUNE 1964 HOT ROD
MAGAZINE told how you can swap factory parts. NOVEMBER 1964 HOT ROD MAGAZINE
compared old OLDS to newer OLDS engines. JANUARY 1966 HIGH PERFORMANCE MAGAZINE
talked about OLDS in street rods and dragsters. THE COMPLETE BOOK OF ENGINES
compared old OLDS to new and told what parts would swap on the old OLDS.
ULTIMATE AMERICAN V-8 DATA BOOK has the specs and part numbers on OLDS. Many
people and a magazine writer also have said that the 1959-1964 engines were
longer so you could not use those parts say in a 57. I can see how they might
think this. 1959-1964 cams are longer about .3 inch longer at the engine flange
area. In 1961 main bearing #1 got longer so the crank looks longer. But they
were sort of wrong. I have had a 59-64 head on my 54. Head gaskets come two
ways, one made just for that engine with just enough holes in just the right
spots for that engine, and a gasket that looks like swiss cheese with holes
everywhere that can be used on many years. I have a 59 371 engine and that
crank looks like a twin to my 57 crank except for bearing sizes. You can turn
down the mains and offset grind the rods for more stroke and it does fit in the
57. A 57 could take .125 bore (394 size) and with that 59 crank .250 offset
ground stroke its over 400 cubes. The 394 piston could be used. A .250 stroke
is .125 up and .125 down so a piston with .125 less compression height would
work and the 394 pistons have .125 less than 57 371 piston so everything fits.
The 59 oil pump, distributor, front cover, water pump, and heads would fit
also. This brings up the next item. A magazine now is running a 394 engine
series and says that the front cover and water pump changed in 1959 and was the
same till 1964. I don't think so! My GM parts book all my gasket books and my
59 engine front cover says no!!! It changed in 1963 not 1959. Ca anyone prove
me wrong? Don't say you know of a car because any engine can be put in any car
like the 57 with a 64 at BACK TO THE 50's show I saw. Last minute add on. At a
salvage yard with 100 or so 1949-1964 OLDS that I went to the front cover and
water pump changed in 63 not 59 or a lot of cars had the wrong engines.

So there you have it, print it save it, use it..

This is probably nothing new to some but there is some good info in there I
think- like the bit about flywheels and starters..

 

the 394 flywheel I sold you I had Mcleod make using a Scheifer ring gear and an off the shelf (their) steel face.
the Scheifer pressure plate uses a Ford bolt pattern and a Chevy throwout bearing, so you should be able to find some else that would fit.

 

edelbrock intake casting numbers

OL-396 Oldsmobile Rocket, low deck 3 × 2 bbl. Stromberg 48/97; 180° 1949-56 303, 324

OL-496 4 × 2 bbl. Stromberg 48/97; 180° 1949-56 303, 324


O263 Oldsmobile Rocket, tall deck 2 × 4 bbl. Holley; 180° 1959-64 394


O96 ML 6 × 2 bbl. Stromberg 48/97; 360°; log 1959-64 394

i used to have the offy numbers,but have lost them.i am working on geting them back again.rumor has it,offy still has them? i will post them when i get them

 

parts suppliers

www.usapartssupply.com
www.fusick.com (has a good selection of stock and nos engine parts)
www.mondellotwister.com (has told me they have parts for 394)
www.camcraftcams.com (cams for early olds 371/394 and buick also)
www.autotran.us/rhmkits1.html (slim jim tranny parts)

websites

www.oldsclub.org
www.442.com/oldsfaq (olds faq)
www.realoldspower.com (back up from being hacked)
www.tocmp.com/tOCMP/wiring/5765wiring diagrams/oldsindex.htm (early olds car wiring diagrams)
64oldstrans.bravepages.com/index.htm (1964 Oldsmobile Service Manual, No. 2:
Hydramatic & Jetaway, Syncromesh & Clutch)

 

the motors themselves are out there,
and they are where you find them.

here are two I just picked up at a 4x4 swap meet last weekend.

sometimes it may make more sense to find a good runner and hop it up
than to buy a core and go all the way though it.

the 394 is fresh and the 303 is a good runner with 70,000 miles on it,
they were $400.00 apiece,
a fraction of the cost of a good rebuild.

 

Great tech thread!

Paul, what is that tranny hanging off the 303?
I'm going to be making a road trip real soon to pick up a mint 53 303 and hydro.