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Old 04-11-2010, 12:43 AM   #1
-Brent-
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Default 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

It's weird how you can have an old picture of a kick ass hot rod as a screen saver and the law of attraction provides you with all the crap... err pieces to create something like it yourself.

What is interesting is how much I've learned about pre-war hot rodding by doing my homework with this car.

Last Halloween I found this in a local online classified.







Soon after, I found good deals on other pieces to the puzzle.





The frame came with a TON of other parts for the project. My goal was to be frugal with a budget. When it's all said and done, I plan to be less than 4k into this car.

The car had an odd body modification. For some strange reason one of the PO's cut out this piece and the riveted it back in. Perhaps a door gone wrong? Don't know... but I scored a piece from a HAMBer to get it back into shape. Very little new metal or parts will be used with exception of rebuild parts for steering, brakes, wiring and such.



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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

After I accumulated an sh!t ton of parts I hauled them up to a buddy, Wendell's shop. I met him through buying some hot rod parts for my coupe. He's a good fabricator and I'm slowly convincing him that I am sane.

Although this photo doesn't support that claim.



Three frames on the trailer... the A roller, a T, and a TT frame. A banger and trans in the bed along with every other part to get it going. To be fair, the ground wasn't level... hahaha.

Anyhow, it made it to the shop and we dug in.



First, the patch piece off a touring car was used. The metal has not been finished. I'm looking for some metal finishing tools so that I can practice.



The frame choice was a TT (Model T Truck). I had a couple ideas about different frame designs and felt the TT would be a sharp choice and it would allow me a little larger canvas to attach my bones and all mechanical brake brackets to.

Yes, that's right I'm running mechanicals. And, I'm excited about it! First thing though was to find a way to get it low. From what I've seen in photos of late 30's and early 40's salt cars (which is what I'm aiming for) they didn't drop the bones. Instead, they raised the mounting point and modified springs.

I tore a page out of Bass's book with my front mount. Actually it's the rear TT spring mount narrowed a half of an inch. The spring has stock secondary leaves de-arched on top of a custom main leaf which is narrowed and has a 2.25 arch. I had to do my homework on figuring the spring. I could have spent a few hundred on a spring but having a main made with reversed eyes was less than $30.



Here's the front part of the front spring hanger where the spring mount will be set into. It was marked with soapstone and burned out.





We cut out the area for the frame and clamped the cross member together. Then we chose to zip the sides off after the cross member was tacked together.











Below is the degree gauge for the front spring place. It's one inch thick steel plate that will get softened edges when the metal gets finished after the initial mock-up. We slid it and tacked it, because without even a tap with a hammer it sat at 7 degrees. Sometimes things work out.



It's gussetted below (inside the crossmember). But with 1" steel, its not going to get bent like so many others of the pre-war cars I've seen in pics. It's overkill, I know this.
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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Last edited by -Brent-; 04-11-2010 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Moving onto the back.

I was really inspired to get the car low in the rear the same way Phil Remington got his low. I was lucky to talk to Dan Web whose recreating the Remington car and he gave me some good tips. Remington's car used a modified A spring, I went with a T spring. It's going to get narrowed further after getting the car rolling now and seeing that it's just a little too wide. It's trial and error, I love that part of the process.





In order to figure the kick-up and the wheelbase we set the body on. I'm a fairly mathematical person, but I'll be honest, this being my first kick-up, Wendell and I were going back and forth on how and what to do and I was confused. We leaned a wheel up to the body to estimate what would look best. It's not pretty, but squint and imagine.



The kick-up.



The T rear spring hanger and frame. It will be smoothly transitioned. As well, I made templates today to box the two transition areas, just need to get them cut.





Another shot of the spring... I chuckle when I look at it. Not much different than the "Multi" T or Remington's. I've learned a lot doing it the way they did.

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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

This is the beginning of what I consider to be the 10lbs of poo into the 2lb bag.





Cut out of a junked Model A frame I got from Deviator, here on the HAMB. Cool guy, he's got my dream shop.














What's the saying, measure once, cut twice? Yes we made a measuring boo boo.

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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Here's a couple miscellaneous detail shots:


Can't mount the axle until the steering arms are modified.





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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

So, putting a Model A banger into a T width frame has its challenges. One such challenge has to do with the motor mounts. These are based on stock mounts that Wendell cut down. The motor will have to be installed into the frame with the mounts on the frame. If you've worked on an A before you know that's not easy nor normal. We've got a few ideas on the best way to go about that... but that'll be in a later thread.











They've been drilled for four 3/8 -16 grade 8 bolts with castle nuts. There's still a rubber pad between the mount and frame and there'll be a pad on the outside of the frame, as well.
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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Here are more brake set-up photos.

The brackets that will be mounted to the outside of the frame will have some rivet heads for aesthetics (there'll be others throughout the frame as well). These brackets are to mount the lower brake rod.





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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread





The steering arm will clearly not fit beneath the frame.



Heated, dropped and now facing the correct direction. Still needs a little adjusting.
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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Mock up photos:





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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Specs:

103.5 WB
11.25" Frame Height

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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 01:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread



Posting so many times just to raise your post count, sneeky... too sneeky.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

He's actually making place holders so his thread will flow uninterrupted (or would have, had we not interrupted )
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Nice thread!!!
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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He's actually making place holders so his thread will flow uninterrupted (or would have, had we not interrupted )
Ha ha.. Oops, silly me. Well, your ride is pretty bitchen'.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Excellent!
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:50 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Well, that's it for now. I've got small stuff to do this week to prepare for the weekend. It's my hope to get the engine situated and go from there.
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Awesome!

A cool build with old parts!
I like it

TT frame is a good Idea!
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Awesome stuff Brent. I will be following the build.
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Inspirational build Brent.

looks like a great pit car in the rough.
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Awesome build Brent - reminds me of my one that I recently sold

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=374603
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:51 AM   #21
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

awesome build
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Too cool. This build definitely has my attention!!! Gotta love a banger with mechanicals. I know in mine they make every ride an adventure.
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Great thread! Doing a fine job...

I love my T and A! My "A" motor... screams! Love driving this car, people trip when I tell them its a engine from 28. I also love my 39 gear box, all the difference in the world!

Good luck, gonna watch this one.
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Good ole Mult!
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:20 AM   #25
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Thumbs up Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Very informative and entertaining build thread. You're doing an excellent job capturing the details for the benefit of us all. Looks like it will be a very cool result and I look forward to following your progress.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:22 AM   #26
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

DAM! how, where did you find that plaque????
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Good ole Mult!
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:25 AM   #27
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

brent, I love your build. very nice
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:45 AM   #28
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Cool build. I love the old T bodies.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by HotRodMicky View Post
Awesome!

A cool build with old parts!
I like it

TT frame is a good Idea!
Thanks! After seeing Royalshifter's Gow Job with the TT frame, I knew it'd suit me for what I was aiming for.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy B View Post
Awesome stuff Brent. I will be following the build.
Jimmy, you're partly responsible for this car, you know! I use a lot of your photos for reference. So, thank you!

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Inspirational build Brent.

looks like a great pit car in the rough.
You think we'll both fit in this when you come out to Bonny next?

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Originally Posted by ForEverFour View Post
Awesome build Brent - reminds me of my one that I recently sold

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=374603
Actually, a bunch of pics of your car are in my "reference file." I made things like fitting a fuel tank a little harder on me because I shortened the driveline length and made the car a bit lower. I wish you could have gotten to finish the car because I'd love to have seen the finished product.

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Too cool. This build definitely has my attention!!! Gotta love a banger with mechanicals. I know in mine they make every ride an adventure.
Thanks! I like this train of thought. Most people upon hearing "mechanical brakes" think the car is going to explode when you press the pedal. Yes, I do get that the technology is old and it'd be easier to run some juice brakes. But, it doesn't fit the concept of this car and I've truly learned so much about an era doing it this way. I'll say that five hundred times more, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Dirtyest Devil View Post
Great thread! Doing a fine job...

I love my T and A! My "A" motor... screams! Love driving this car, people trip when I tell them its a engine from 28. I also love my 39 gear box, all the difference in the world!

Good luck, gonna watch this one.
I love yours, too. I didn't realize it has a 39 box. What did you do have for a driveline from that to the rear? Which rear?

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Originally Posted by Goober View Post
Very informative and entertaining build thread. You're doing an excellent job capturing the details for the benefit of us all. Looks like it will be a very cool result and I look forward to following your progress.
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Originally Posted by Angry Frenchman View Post
brent, I love your build. very nice
Thanks, fellas. I'll tell you, honestly, I had a few moments of trepidation because I'm showing so many areas of the car in an unfinished stage. And, it's no where near the finished product. I love threads that show amazing work with exceptional metal finishing throughout the build. However, I feel like the finish stuff can be done after it's all mocked. It's probably not how most do it, but it's how I'm going to do it.
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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 04-11-2010, 01:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

It really looks great Brent. I have been waiting for this for a while. My '26 roadster will be of similar construction.

Rock it Hotshot!
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Interesting build. You handled the lowering of the front a little different than me but to the same end. You actually started with more than than I had.
Keep posting.
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I don't understand...there aren't any deuce parts to this build. I thought all hot rods had to have deuce parts...
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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Interesting build. You handled the lowering of the front a little different than me but to the same end. You actually started with more than than I had.
Keep posting.
When I saw the TT rear crossmember, I knew it'd do the trick. I didn't want a visible gusset or something that looked out of place for pre war. Although I haven't seen anything exactly like it, it could have been.

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I don't understand...there aren't any deuce parts to this build. I thought all hot rods had to have deuce parts...
Hahaha... Larry, I said I wanted to keep it under $4,000.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Interesting build. I really want to do a 20's-30's modified next. I will watch this to get ideas.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Looking awesome Brent.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:42 PM   #36
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Thats gunna be a neato little car. im gunna subscribe
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:44 PM   #37
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Nice build! Thanks for posting all the photos. Hope some Hartford shocks are planned fror the front.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:02 AM   #38
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Nice build! Thanks for posting all the photos. Hope some Hartford shocks are planned fror the front.
I'd like to go with a vintage or self-made friction shock but I got these with the A rolling chassis. I did get a set of 36 arms (which are longer) to try as well. They aren't fancy but I think they'll do the trick.

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Old 04-12-2010, 12:12 AM   #39
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

The A shocks should work fine. You could get two 1932 Model B Ford engine vibration dampeners and make shocks out of them. That will make 3Window Larry happy.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:16 AM   #40
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Cute!

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Old 04-12-2010, 12:19 AM   #41
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The A shocks should work fine. You could get two 1932 Model B Ford engine vibration dampeners and make shocks out of them. That will make 3Window Larry happy.
Haha, yep Larry would be content with that. Got a pic of the dampeners? I'm intrigued.

Is using 32 parts the only way to be "Larry Approved"?
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:24 AM   #42
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Interesting project but I don't agree with your decision to run mechanical brakes. My first car was a stock Model A. We could not get those brakes to work worth a damn. I learned how to downshift that crashbox very quickly or I never would have been able to drive it. Converted to juicers asap. Remember, those cars weren't able to go more than about 40 MPH.

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I'd like to go with a vintage or self-made friction shock but I got these with the A rolling chassis. I did get a set of 36 arms (which are longer) to try as well. They aren't fancy but I think they'll do the trick.

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Old 04-12-2010, 12:36 AM   #43
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Interesting project but I don't agree with your decision to run mechanical brakes. My first car was a stock Model A. We could not get those brakes to work worth a damn. I learned how to downshift that crashbox very quickly or I never would have been able to drive it. Converted to juicers asap. Remember, those cars weren't able to go more than about 40 MPH.
This car will probably stop faster than it accelerates. Check FlatheadTed, you'll see what I mean.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:46 AM   #44
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Brent, I just want you to know, I SEE YOUR VISION, without squinting!!! I love the early "Gow-Job" style low-slung T's..... Whether they were actually low slung then or not, they sure look good that way, with wires and 21" tires!

James
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:00 AM   #45
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Brent, I just want you to know, I SEE YOUR VISION, without squinting!!! I love the early "Gow-Job" style low-slung T's..... Whether they were actually low slung then or not, they sure look good that way, with wires and 21" tires!

James
Thanks, James. I think a lot of the low slung cars of that vintage had a track-style noses.

I'm chasing these guys...







And the pic that gets me...

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Old 04-12-2010, 01:03 AM   #46
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Thanks, James. I think a lot of the low slung cars of that vintage had a track-style noses.

I'm chasing these guys...







And the pic that gets me...

Awesome!

Where have I seen that 2nd pic before?

James
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:43 AM   #47
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

great build!
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:42 AM   #48
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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I love yours, too. I didn't realize it has a 39 box. What did you do have for a driveline from that to the rear? Which rear?


My T doesn't have an A motor... my 32 roadster does. Couldn't find a B block, and had a nice A. Bored it a 100 over, touring cam, lightened flywheel, OHV, etc. Oh, and a 39 trans, 36 rear. Car boggies....

My T has it's T motor, Warford trans...



I dissagree with the gent that sez mechanicals don't work... they work too good when adjusted right!
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:45 AM   #49
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DAM! how, where did you find that plaque????

It came from Multi's house... after he passed.

He ran another #, believe it was 7... I forget now.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:39 AM   #50
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Love what your doing , Pre. war. Here is some inspiration.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:57 AM   #51
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Run the mechanicals, they will be fine, NOTGETTINGRICH, you must have had something screwed up in your brakes or they weren't adjusted properly because my coupe still runs them and the car stops great, really great in fact.
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:54 PM   #52
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QUOTE:


My T doesn't have an A motor... my 32 roadster does. Couldn't find a B block, and had a nice A. Bored it a 100 over, touring cam, lightened flywheel, OHV, etc. Oh, and a 39 trans, 36 rear. Car boggies....
I like your style.

Sounds a lot like what I'll be running in my 26/27 Roadster, which will be next on the chopping block.
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:06 PM   #53
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Run the mechanicals, they will be fine, NOTGETTINGRICH, you must have had something screwed up in your brakes or they weren't adjusted properly because my coupe still runs them and the car stops great, really great in fact.

Yeah, I don't mind people hating on mechanical brakes... it keeps the price down for me. Hell, I'll even tell people they're dangerous. It's one of those things (like Flatty over-heating issues) that will always be around. Granted, mechanical brakes can be a headache and juice brakes are an improvement, but like anything else, proper set-up and maintenance are key.
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:11 PM   #54
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Love what your doing , Pre. war. Here is some inspiration.
Is that you? That's a cool photo.
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:15 PM   #55
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cool little "T"
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:02 PM   #56
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Is that you? That's a cool photo.
No not me. I'm not quite that old. It could be you when you get finished if you could dig up some knickers and white bucks. It must have been taken in the '30s. He sure looks proud though. Found the photo at a second hand store.
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:33 AM   #57
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

any updates?
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:26 PM   #58
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

The frame is pretty much done. I added a boxed section with a few holes on the kick-up. Also, I had a new rear main leaf made and it's been a pain to install. I got a set of 36 rear radius rods to replace the stock A set since the frame is much narrower. To complete that I need to set the engine and trans. I’m waiting on a 32-34 B motor truck front mount (rather than fabbing something). I think the look will be more genuine.

Speaking of looking more genuine, we put some headlight mounts up front but they don’t fit the look and I’m not pleased with them, although they’d work just fine. “T” Nut donated a set of stock headlight mounts which will be perfect, that stuff doesn’t happen often and I think it’s pretty cool. Thanks “T” Nut!

My camera battery died and I haven’t replaced it yet, so no extra pics (that’s fun update stuff, right? ).
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:51 AM   #59
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Cool build!! Keep the updates flowing.
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:57 AM   #60
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Love it!!!!!!
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:22 AM   #61
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Awesome stuff. I love T's, and I love budget builds. I'm liking what I'm seeing.

I'd be afraid to run mechanicals, though.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:34 AM   #62
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I need pics man! I love where this thing is going... I'm not giong to argue that mechanical brakes work b/c I had them & youll never not have anyone question your sanity. lol. But I don't understand the comment above about model A's only going 45mph.... my little stock banger modified would do 65-68 all day long without over heating. So in a little stripped down car such as this you should be fine. Anyways more pics!!!!
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Old 05-16-2010, 10:05 PM   #63
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

The engine is in! It's only 66% though as the front mount has yet to be fabricated. The front mount will be based on a 32-34 B motor big truck. Were they considered BB trucks? Not sure.

Anyhow, the mounts were fabbed up and based on T mounts. It's really the only way an engine is getting between those rails.



Below is the T pan with mounts.



Here's what we came up with...



A shot from the rear. The headlight mounts will be stock T. A different main leaf has to be made. The first main was too long, this is too short. The car would be extremely stiff had we somehow gotten the leaf in. There's not a lot of room to stretch this one out.



The radiator will be mounted to the lower portion of the rails and also shortened to fit the T shell. It's the little things that'll make the difference.
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Old 05-16-2010, 10:06 PM   #64
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

This is pretty much the height the engine will be from the ground.



Closer view.



The split bones are now going to get "kicked-up" ala the Phil Remington streamliner. However, these will have Model A rod ends on them which will be set back to parallel so that there'll be some adjustment. Very little, but, adjustment none-the-less. Placing the ball-end in the "right" spot is an important part of the "to do" list.
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Old 05-16-2010, 10:06 PM   #65
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread





The brake mounts have been welded in. The only thing left is putting some rivet-heads in for aesthetics.



I had some boxing plates plasma cut for the kick-up. There'll be something put in the top end of the kick up as well. Probably over-kill but I'm a newb and it was something cool to design and also some piece of mind.

That's it for now. Next is bones and radius rods. Then putting the body on and figuring out the clutch pedal since the T pedals were set up different area than the A's and having the engine mount like T's has added a hurdle.

Then onto steering, another hurdle... then body mounts, brake rods, shocks (got a few cool ideas for those), etc., etc., etc.
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Old 05-16-2010, 11:06 PM   #66
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I want that.
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Old 05-16-2010, 11:10 PM   #67
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread



Here's a sad shot of the front end with the headlights sitting unbolted. If you look closely you can see the steering arm against the wishbone end. Just stuff that's got to be sorted out.
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Old 05-16-2010, 11:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Oh, I almost forgot too... I got a VERY decent set of 21" A wire wheels to go with the set of black-walls I've got sitting in storage. I got the wheels yesterday at the UVU swap for $50. 2 have some cracks and need the center hubs prepped and welded. I'd like to go with a stock color (most likely paint). I want black-walls to fit the pre-war period.
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:34 AM   #69
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Wow, wow, wow. Great build. I didn't realize you were this far along.

I'm definitely bookmarking this one for future reference. I hadn't realized what a challenge getting an A engine into a T frame was gonna be.

-Dave
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:56 AM   #70
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I like your build ethic on this one,keep the budget down etc.Nice quality work too.Looking forward to more up dates.
Mark.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:53 AM   #71
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Wow, wow, wow. Great build. I didn't realize you were this far along.

I'm definitely bookmarking this one for future reference. I hadn't realized what a challenge getting an A engine into a T frame was gonna be.

-Dave
Thanks, Mark and Dave.

The A banger certainly wasn't going in with the first set of mounts that were made (the narrowed A mounts). There's no wiggle room between the T-width rails compared to A's.

As far as keeping the quality up, that's important to me (with everything I do) but all the welding is done by Wendell. He's got skills with welding.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:08 AM   #72
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Dang nice build and got to hand it to you,the welding is badass.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:31 AM   #73
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

FYI, Your not helping my Hot Rod Regression.
60's.......50's.........40's........30's.......... 20's......

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Old 05-17-2010, 10:02 AM   #74
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FYI, Your not helping my Hot Rod Regression.
60's.......50's.........40's........30's.......... 20's......

Jeff
At least there's not much left regressing for you to do.

I do get what you're saying though... I have a late 50's early sixties period Model A project... then this came along and I really started researching salt flat history, which led me to this. Then, wouldn't you know, a 1927 Roadster falls in my lap, so only naturally I need a post-war car too. I'm NOT regressing, I'm all over the place!
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:55 AM   #75
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

This is fun to follow. You are going to have some of the "real old timers" thinking that this one was built back when and they saw it run somewhere in the past when it's done.
This the way vintage style hot rod builds should be done. Pay high honors and homage to the way it was done but not be a clone of anything.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:13 AM   #76
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This is fun to follow. You are going to have some of the "real old timers" thinking that this one was built back when and they saw it run somewhere in the past when it's done.
This the way vintage style hot rod builds should be done. Pay high honors and homage to the way it was done but not be a clone of anything.
Thank you and very well said. I've tried to explain it without success to some others. I think that's how I'll describe it now.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:16 PM   #77
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread





I picked up a 33/34 Ford banjo axle at a swap meet for the drive shaft for my next project and was pleasantly surprised when seeing the attached bones. Although these aren't as heavy as the 35/36 bones I had planned on running, I like the weight and size of them.



Here's a set of brackets I had plasma cut to match the originals. They'll get mounted up this weekend. As well, I stole the mounting piece welded to the torque tube from the swap meet axle. Everything will look stock...



I had been on the search for headlight mounts and a HAMBer "T"Nut sent me a PM donating the set above. All that is needed is to grind off the fender brackets and pretty them up. Thanks "T"Nut, it's appreciated!

And, here's the last thing for the day that has me scratching my head. I had a new main leaf made and told the fellas at the shop that the last shackle bushing they had used the previous main was too tight and made putting the shackle in difficult (I had to press it in). This is what I got back today. The hole is about an 1/8" too BIG. The shackle in the pic is what I gave them to use as a reference. I'm not sure what they expect me to do with that.



I'm assuming that I can buy a set from Mac's or Snyder's but I haven't looked it up yet. I just shook my head when the fella said, "we made the bushing bigger for you" and rattled the shackle like a cow bell.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:41 PM   #78
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And, here's the last thing for the day that has me scratching my head. I had a new main leaf made and told the fellas at the shop that the last shackle bushing they had used the previous main was too tight and made putting the shackle in difficult (I had to press it in). This is what I got back today. The hole is about an 1/8" too BIG. The shackle in the pic is what I gave them to use as a reference. I'm not sure what they expect me to do with that.



I'm assuming that I can buy a set from Mac's or Snyder's but I haven't looked it up yet. I just shook my head when the fella said, "we made the bushing bigger for you" and rattled the shackle like a cow bell.
You're not going to pay for that are you?
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:16 PM   #79
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You're not going to pay for that are you?
You know, these guys are usually good and I take into consideration that I bring in some things they never see or work on being that they concentrate on truck and trailer springs, etc., and I'm working on 80+ year old cars. So for this one, I gave them a pass. I ordered the bushings from Mac's for $6.

If it were the norm with them, I'd bring my business elsewhere. I do agree that they should know better because a shackle is a shackle regardless of era but it's too easy to solve myself and keep moving on.
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Old 05-21-2010, 03:10 PM   #80
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You know, these guys are usually good and I take into consideration that I bring in some things they never see or work on being that they concentrate on truck and trailer springs, etc., and I'm working on 80+ year old cars. So for this one, I gave them a pass. I ordered the bushings from Mac's for $6.

If it were the norm with them, I'd bring my business elsewhere. I do agree that they should know better because a shackle is a shackle regardless of era but it's too easy to solve myself and keep moving on.
Brent;
I like your attitude and solution.
Have enjoyed and learned from your build.
Bill.
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Old 05-21-2010, 03:50 PM   #81
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Here's my 1921 TT framed Modified with a 27 cowl, 25 doors, custom sail panels and 1919 rear panel. It is suicided at both ends and has a rear spring hanger arrangement similiar to yours - but because it's curved doesn't need to be 25mm thick.

Engine is a 347 Pontiac from a 1957 GMC truck. Not so many authentic parts - but this is the UK and I'm lucky that I can find anything....

I decided to fit a Fordson Major petrol tank and because I needed to get it lower in relation to the body I cut the hump off the rear cross member.











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Old 05-23-2010, 12:33 AM   #82
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Here's a little project for the day... nothing major. I cut off the fender brackets (donated by "T"Nut) and smoothed out the mounts. Although they'll go to the blasters with the rest of the stuff I wanted to shape them up so that they didn't look like I just lopped them off with the cutting wheel.







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Old 05-23-2010, 07:08 AM   #83
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Nice work, glad I checked in the see how things are moving along.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:38 PM   #84
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Brent, This thread has me all inspired on my T framed/"A" powered /fron half/Dodge(narrowed to fit one) touring with "A" mechanical brakes . . . Don't know where I can find all the pieces for "A" mechanical brakes ?
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:00 PM   #85
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Love what your doing. Maybe next year we can meet in Pomone on Fathersday. I hope to be there next month. I have one more header to finish. Not sure if I like them enough to chrome them though.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:55 PM   #86
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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Nice work, glad I checked in the see how things are moving along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 41 Dave View Post
Brent, This thread has me all inspired on my T framed/"A" powered /fron half/Dodge(narrowed to fit one) touring with "A" mechanical brakes . . . Don't know where I can find all the pieces for "A" mechanical brakes ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steel rebel View Post
Love what your doing. Maybe next year we can meet in Pomone on Fathersday. I hope to be there next month. I have one more header to finish. Not sure if I like them enough to chrome them though.
Thanks for the kind words, fellas. Dave, send me a PM with what you're looking for. I may be able to get you everything from a 28/29 coupe.

Steel Rebel, I'd love to get back to the Roadster Show in 2011. We'll have to coordinate something, for sure.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:37 AM   #87
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More progress.

Wendell and I discussed what we liked best for front mounts. Simplicity and function won out over fancy (or even welded) mounts. I've got to tell you I am pleased with how simplicity and function allowed for a very cool-looking set of mounts that fit right in with the era. Plus, this engine went from being something that was going to be difficult to drop in between the rails to a simple 4-6 bolt drop in / pull out. Easy-cheesy, I like that.



This is a NOS mount from a B model truck (32-34). I am not sure how this mount was connected to the frame in it's original intention.



Wendell bent a wire as a pattern we bent the steel to match. It took a couple times of fitting and making the two match. Here's the first one, close to the desired shape and the beginning of the other.



Test fit.



Ready to mock (after they cool).



Sitting in place, now they've got to be drilled.



Drilled with bolts setting in place (mocked only) and edges cleaned up softened.



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Old 05-29-2010, 11:04 AM   #88
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Next is the front bones. I took a page out of Brian Bass's book on this one. I always admired the set-up on his car.

Wendell made a bung in the lathe to fit the threaded Model A rod end. Then the end was welded to the inside of the bung and tapped into place into the end of the bone. Then, the welder that he is... he welded it up nice and neat and the finished product is below.





I had originally measured and planned for straight (unbent) bones but at some point it looked like they needed to be cut which is why there's welds 1/3 from the back. We were going to kick it up like Phil Remington's car but it was not needed. My front mount and spring mods were enough to allow straight bones. (I had actually planned right the first time, hahaha ) These things happen.



Here's what it'll look like installed.



Here's a veiw from the inside. Obviously no prep or weld has happened at this point. This is actually a pretty tight area and for finish welding the engine will have to be pulled. It's cleaned up and tacked (1/2 welded actually) but no pics of that area... I'll snap some Sunday.







Passenger side.



There's more to come but I'm going on a day trip with the wife. I'll post more tonight.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:06 AM   #89
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Here's the teaser I gave the Hot Rod Model T Group guys...

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Old 05-29-2010, 11:13 AM   #90
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Looks great Brent!
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:42 AM   #91
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I know I said I was going on a day trip but she's drying her hair and doing her make-up, etc.... I figured I'd sneak in a few areas that need addressing.

Below the steering arm hits the front of the bone. Now I know why they flip and reweld them. This will be dealt with when the steering box finds a location. Right now that's as far right as it turns.





This is an area that'll be a simple fix. These A pedal arms are going to be cut away in favor of something straighter. Then there'll be no clearance issues with the motor mounts, firewall, and I can set them to fit my feet too.



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Old 05-29-2010, 12:03 PM   #92
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Looking good,Brent!
Will you be adding any support to the area around the top of the new motor mount?Looks like a lot of weight for the top of an un-boxed frame rail.
Keep up the great work,
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:12 PM   #93
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Brent

I love the radius rod setup. really neat.

May I offer you an alternative to the way the engine has been mounted?

Why not turn the "B" mount upside down, and run the strap from rail to rail, with the "B" mount sitting on TOP of the strap. In the present setup you are relying solely on the bolts to hold that 4-pot-of-power in place. These mounts originally had donuts under them, and they sat in top of the "B" cross-member.

Just my 2c worth about an otherwise bitchin car.
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:29 PM   #94
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Looking good,Brent!
Will you be adding any support to the area around the top of the new motor mount?Looks like a lot of weight for the top of an un-boxed frame rail.
Keep up the great work,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stovebolt View Post
Brent

I love the radius rod setup. really neat.

May I offer you an alternative to the way the engine has been mounted?

Why not turn the "B" mount upside down, and run the strap from rail to rail, with the "B" mount sitting on TOP of the strap. In the present setup you are relying solely on the bolts to hold that 4-pot-of-power in place. These mounts originally had donuts under them, and they sat in top of the "B" cross-member.

Just my 2c worth about an otherwise bitchin car.

Thanks fellas. I hear both of you on this mount set up. There's not as much weight as you'd think these mounts. The bulk of weight is handled by the two rear mounts. I was surprised when I noticed the very little weight on the blocks in the front.

Mark, these rails are pretty stout and the mount holes are positioned closer to the inside of the rail near the bend (keeping what you've mentioned in mind). TT rails are quite possibly the thickest Ford rails of the era. Stock, the T and TT mounted the engines on the top of the rails. They're just too narrow to do otherwise.

My concern lies more with what Stovebolt mention, having the engine side mount below the tie-in piece. I picked up some grade 8 hardware today for all the mounting points. The distance the tie-ins span is about 6 inches each. Each one is very sturdy. More sturdy than the 32 B car motor mounts. If it's not right when the car's running, I'll change it. For now, we'll see.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:06 PM   #95
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I could deal with this ride height but I've decided to reverse the eyes back on both sets of main leafs to bring the car up an inch. It'll help out the rear leaf which I've been having issues with and it's been a big experiment. I understand now why Phil Remington ran his the way he did.





Mocking the body:









This is where I wanted the turtle deck in relation to the rear wheels. I was curious how my measurements would work out in planning since I only had diagrams, pictures, guestimations and measurements from HAMBers. However, I did my homework and it paid off.





Tomorrow the exhaust will get fabbed, as well as the torque tube, body mounts, and the headlight mounts (gotta cut off what's existing). Depending on how we're rolling maybe we'll get to the windshield and some miscellaneous odds and ends.

The steering box will get set up once the body is where it's supposed to be. I'm sure there'll be some head-scratching about that tomorrow too. Narrow rails and the A axle certainly makes and odd pair where steering is concerned.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:18 PM   #96
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Really liking what your doing a real '30s Gow!
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:21 PM   #97
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Looking great -Brent-
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:45 AM   #98
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Thanks fellas. I hear both of you on this mount set up. There's not as much weight as you'd think these mounts. The bulk of weight is handled by the two rear mounts. I was surprised when I noticed the very little weight on the blocks in the front.

Mark, these rails are pretty stout and the mount holes are positioned closer to the inside of the rail near the bend (keeping what you've mentioned in mind). TT rails are quite possibly the thickest Ford rails of the era. Stock, the T and TT mounted the engines on the top of the rails. They're just too narrow to do otherwise.

My concern lies more with what Stovebolt mention, having the engine side mount below the tie-in piece. I picked up some grade 8 hardware today for all the mounting points. The distance the tie-ins span is about 6 inches each. Each one is very sturdy. More sturdy than the 32 B car motor mounts. If it's not right when the car's running, I'll change it. For now, we'll see.
That's cool.It's hard to get the full picture from....erm....a picture,if you know what I mean.
The car sits real nice in your latest pics.
Cheers,
Mark.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:55 AM   #99
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Not too much to report today. We got a couple hours in. I spent the better part of the morning chasing nuts and bolts and other parts for the car. Here are some pics from today...

Here's one of the mounts. A few taps with the hammer straightened it out.



All the mounts were welded on... but like Ionia and Bass have done in the past, they'll get some rivets for aesthetics.



After straightening it out, I put a level on it so you can see how we flushed them with the top of the rail.



From above you can see all four mounts. They're all at the same height rather than how Henry's boys knocked them in.



As well, I put some hardware on the front mounts. It's tightened up and very solid.



Here, for the first time in a VERY long time, the body is now bolted to a frame.



Still needs more cleaning up... the holes for the headlight stands were there all along. I put some in place but the lights hit the ball for the shock on the spring perch. So I didn't mount them up.



That's about it, for now, other than a couple little odds and ends.
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Old 05-31-2010, 05:36 PM   #100
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Got a couple requests for other (better) pics of how it's sitting since it is now mounted... but this is all I've got at the moment .

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Old 05-31-2010, 05:40 PM   #101
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Looks good Dooooooooooood
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:42 PM   #102
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Looking Good Brent, keep up the good work
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:59 PM   #103
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Looks good Dooooooooooood
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Looking Good Brent, keep up the good work
Thanks, fellas. It means a lot to hear that.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:33 PM   #104
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You are haulin ass on this project! Looks great man I dig your choice of parts
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:21 AM   #105
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I hear what you're saying about how thick and sturdy the TT rails are - the rear crossmember on my car is 12mm thick in places and the rails are mostly around 10mm thick. Useful for mounting minor brackets and pipe clips etc - I can just drill and tap the frame directly.

I boxed mine because I'm running a 347 Pontiac but it probably would have been OK to leave it open.
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:19 AM   #106
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I hear what you're saying about how thick and sturdy the TT rails are - the rear crossmember on my car is 12mm thick in places and the rails are mostly around 10mm thick. Useful for mounting minor brackets and pipe clips etc - I can just drill and tap the frame directly.

I boxed mine because I'm running a 347 Pontiac but it probably would have been OK to leave it open.
Just went back for another look at the frame pics.I didn't realise how thick they are!
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:32 AM   #107
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looking sharp, keep it up!
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:34 PM   #108
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Busy Busy.

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Old 06-01-2010, 05:21 PM   #109
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very inspiring!
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #110
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Closer and closer.

I stopped over Wendell's yesterday and saw he buttoned up a few key things. Chassis-wise it's pretty much set, minus the steering debacle. There'll be more on that in a moment.

Steering wheel profile:







Most likely I will NOT be running an A box unless I can find a few RHD parts to get my pitman arm to face up. I'm thinking a side steer box out of a mid to late 30's Ford may do the trick as it's been done in the past. The A box is much less cumbersome, though.









I've got a side steer box I'm going to use for comparison... I had not expected to run the pitman facing up but it'll avoid a lot more issues by doing it this way. Cramming so much into tight proximities has been a learning lesson. I give credit to the belly-tank guys... who've got more issues and less space.
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #111
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The rear section of the kick-up, boxed. I'm going to make it match the lower section by matching the angles of the plates. I'll pop a hole or two into the plate as well.





The firewall now mounted securely to the frame.

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Old 06-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #112
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Here are the rear radius rods mounted. They needed minor shortening, however, now they bolt into the stock Model A location. After cleaning and painting they'll look stock (minus some welds).

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Wendell put a few stitch welds on the top seam where there were none stock. Would it be a good idea to weld the whole seam?

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We fit all the Model A stuff into the T frame.

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The spring is for mock only. I'm going back to the drawing board on it once the car is more complete.

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Here's another issue we ran into with the e-brake. Not sure the remedy yet.

Click on the photos for the larger image...

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Old 06-20-2010, 04:46 PM   #113
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The torque tube ended up being shortened about 9 inches. The shaft will get sent to Hot Rod Works in Idaho to be shortened.



Pieces were cut from the front and rear of the tube, due to the taper.

That's about it for the moment...
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:28 PM   #114
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Nice progress Brent.Might be worth asking if anyone can help source your RHD steering parts on the 'Limeys of the HAMB' social group.Don't know if the Aussies have one but worth asking there too if they do.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:49 PM   #115
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Looking good mate
What sort of RHD stuff are you looking for?

Looking at your T makes me think I REALLY shoulda kept mine!!!!!
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:24 PM   #116
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Nice progress Brent.Might be worth asking if anyone can help source your RHD steering parts on the 'Limeys of the HAMB' social group.Don't know if the Aussies have one but worth asking there too if they do.
Thanks, I'll look up that group and see what we can do.

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Originally Posted by ForEverFour View Post
Looking good mate
What sort of RHD stuff are you looking for?

Looking at your T makes me think I REALLY shoulda kept mine!!!!!
I read somewhere that the box could be converted by swapping internals from a RHD box. That would allow me to run my LHD box with the pitman pointing up.

I'm thinking Mac's may have the parts... but have heard conflicting things on quality of the reproduced steering internals.

If anyone knows specifically if it's possible it'd be very helpful to hear it.
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:11 AM   #117
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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Originally Posted by -Brent- View Post
Thanks, I'll look up that group and see what we can do.



I read somewhere that the box could be converted by swapping internals from a RHD box. That would allow me to run my LHD box with the pitman pointing up.

I'm thinking Mac's may have the parts... but have heard conflicting things on quality of the reproduced steering internals.

If anyone knows specifically if it's possible it'd be very helpful to hear it.
Are you able to run the RHD pitman arm on your LHD box to achieve what you want to do? If so I will get one for you?
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:14 AM   #118
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

It's not the pitman I need... I need the screw gear and perhaps some of the other innerds. I'm not sure yet... I'm still looking for that article I had read.

Thanks ForEverFour... your car was a big help and inspiration on my build.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:56 AM   #119
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I LOVE it! i have so much other shit i need to be doing now, but i really had to read through this whole thread! this is hot rodding in its purrest form right here, taking what you have or can get for cheap, same stuff they used back in the day, and making it work. GREAT car, inspires me to cut up the frame for my t project haha im following this now...
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:00 PM   #120
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

you are definately a motovator.... think i'm gonna go out to the shop today and tinker on my 50'..
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Old 06-21-2010, 12:06 PM   #121
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Great stuff Brent!
Good detailed pictures of the work!
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Old 06-21-2010, 03:12 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by VanHorton View Post
I LOVE it! i have so much other shit i need to be doing now, but i really had to read through this whole thread! this is hot rodding in its purrest form right here, taking what you have or can get for cheap, same stuff they used back in the day, and making it work. GREAT car, inspires me to cut up the frame for my t project haha im following this now...
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Originally Posted by gsport View Post
you are definately a motovator.... think i'm gonna go out to the shop today and tinker on my 50'..
Thanks fellas. Wendell is the man when it comes to welding, I couldn't have gotten anywhere without him.

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Originally Posted by Nitro-Flattie1 View Post
Great stuff Brent!
Good detailed pictures of the work!
I admire good build-threads and often refer back for references. I try to emulate that since I've gotten so much from them. My photo skills could use some work since it seems like I get one of 3 photos I take to be useable. Maybe they'll get better with the next build? Thank god for digital cameras!
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:29 PM   #123
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Click on the photos to see them larger.

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This is the plate fabbed to mount the steering box. We decided to go with an A steering box with a RHD sector shaft and worm gear. The pitman will face up. I've never heard or seen of anyone to have ever do this, so, I'll let you know how it works out.

Below are photos of the current state of the brake rods. The fronts were extended by about 8 inches.

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These bends were put in for several reasons. It keep the rods more straight and closer to the frame/body. These are NOT done. There will be steel rod (the same sized used) as gussets at the bends so that when brake pressure is applies the rod "thinks" it is straight.

No steel to finish that today. We went on to some other projects. See some more details below of the rods.

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Old 07-05-2010, 08:30 PM   #124
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Next was the chopping and leaning back of the windshield. Or as Wendell put it, "Fabbing 101." I had a bunch of parts from a few different years to combine to make what I wanted.

Those that aren't familiar with Model T differences wouldn't notice the changes, or that is, how things are mixed and matched. When it's all painted up it'll look like a chopped and leaned wind screen. Mission accomplished!

Here's what we did.

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We took 23-25 stanchions and a great 23-25 lower frame (still has the channel for the glass) and zipped off the stanchions at the top of the lower frame.

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Next, after some measuring. We cut off more than half of the upper frame from a late teens (to 20s?) frame. Inside this space a new threaded piece will be installed, rather than fumbling with the old pieces which were a little worse for wear.

Although they could have been used, it'll be nice to be able to take the screws out at a later date to make repairs and such.

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Here it is, the new top windscreen frame. A little more than 3" of glass on the top.

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Once the upper frame was set we could figure how much to chop off the "other" stanchions. Once cut, we plopped them up there for a photo.

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The stanchions (both sets) taper toward the top. So some pie cuts needed to be made.

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Then another test.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:30 PM   #125
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Both sides got the same treatment. Then, a bunch of eying and using the artistic thumb and such until we felt like things were where they should be. We did some measuring too but the "thumb" thing worked so well.

Wendell tacked them up while I asked a ton of welding questions. Below are a some welded pics (before being ground down).

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Next came leaning the windscreen back. Which, to me, was the icing on the cake. It was a little tricky since the door side measure differently then the driver's on these T's. But that's where the "squinting" technique comes into play.

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After cuts and re-cuts we got the stanchions leaned back to where I wanted them. There's enough room between the glass and the wheel, if I were to have my hand up there.

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We took apart and assembled the windshield at least a 8 or 9 times to get the fit correct.

One of my favorite comparisons. Meet Wendell.

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After all the welding some grinding took place. The combination of the two stanchions isn't noticeable other than the top one is slightly wider. It will get softened up and be unnoticeable once painted.

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Below are a couple other shots for perspective.

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Old 07-05-2010, 08:49 PM   #126
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

ahh man that car is the nuts! a pre war T gow job is deffinatly on the cards after my A gow is done!
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:11 PM   #127
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

sweet work..keep it up
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:19 PM   #128
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Update, update, update..... Now, Now, Now!!!!

Haha

Awesome build Brent it has inspired me.... I went and bought a '25 T cowl top and firewall to build a roadster I may ask for measurements so I can fab the rest. (another late 40s lakes roadster build )

keep up the great work, you'll have this done before I finish my '25 Chev
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:24 PM   #129
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

im thinking a Gow Job HAMB Group is in order as there so many cool rides coming out the woodwork lately
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:33 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by -Brent- View Post

These bends were put in for several reasons. It keep the rods more straight and closer to the frame/body. These are NOT done. There will be steel rod (the same sized used) as gussets at the bends so that when brake pressure is applies the rod thinks its straight.
The rod "will think" that the force is in a straight line from clevis to clevis, because it is - no matter how many bends or straight sections are in between....
.

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Old 07-05-2010, 11:06 PM   #131
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Also, the exhaust was buttoned up.

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A few weeks ago, I had a muffler shop make a new down-pipe because the original was too thin to weld to. The 36 torque tube was trimmed and welded and below is the result.

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The last thing to get done was to open up the hole in the firewall to accommodate the Model A column.

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The column mount is going to be made from a radius rod mount on a torque tube. For now, it's floating.

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That's all for this update!
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:19 PM   #132
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy B View Post
Update, update, update..... Now, Now, Now!!!!

Haha

Awesome build Brent it has inspired me.... I went and bought a '25 T cowl top and firewall to build a roadster I may ask for measurements so I can fab the rest. (another late 40s lakes roadster build )

keep up the great work, you'll have this done before I finish my '25 Chev
I don't know, Jimmy. I've got a lot more to do. This is only the mock-up. Then I'll be breaking it down and prepping it for paint, some extra body work will be in order, sandblast the frame and reassemble, new wood, wiring... etc., etc., etc.

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Originally Posted by Vonmerkin View Post
ahh man that car is the nuts! a pre war T gow job is deffinatly on the cards after my A gow is done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorodz View Post
sweet work..keep it up
Thanks a bunch, fellas!

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Originally Posted by Vonmerkin View Post
im thinking a Gow Job HAMB Group is in order as there so many cool rides coming out the woodwork lately
There is! Check out the Model T Hot Rod Social Group. There are a bunch of members and some cool cars, as well.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:31 AM   #133
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A shot from each side of the front. Rear brake rods are tucked in well.

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Old 07-06-2010, 01:22 AM   #134
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Brent and Jimmy
you two guys should try to meet up In August when Jimmy
is over for bonneville!
Jimmy is one of the most knowledgeable dry lakes guy on the HAMB, and you Brent are one of the nicest hosts out there.
And you know that if I could be there I'd be over in a flash especially to be able to go for a fang in what is turning out to be a great gow job
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:11 AM   #135
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Brent and Jimmy
you two guys should try to meet up In August when Jimmy
is over for bonneville!
Jimmy is one of the most knowledgeable dry lakes guy on the HAMB, and you Brent are one of the nicest hosts out there.
And you know that if I could be there I'd be over in a flash especially to be able to go for a fang in what is turning out to be a great gow job
Hey thanks... and yes, Jimmy and I will have to meet up. However, my goal to have the car ready for Bonneville is not going to be met. There's just too much to do and not enough time with all the other stuff I have going on. Plus, I am really happy with the quality of the car and don't want to cut any corners by rushing.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:00 AM   #136
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Neat little roadster man!
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:02 AM   #137
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Neat little roadster man!

Thanks, Tman!
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:44 PM   #138
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wicked! looks like you will be tearing up the salt soon!
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:01 PM   #139
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

A thought on the steering: the stock Model A is a press on- could you rotate it 90 degrees or flip it up side down or both or?????
To much for me to figure out- help!
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:25 PM   #140
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A thought on the steering: the stock Model A is a press on- could you rotate it 90 degrees or flip it up side down or both or?????
To much for me to figure out- help!
I assume you're talking about the pitman arm? Yes it can be switched and, at the moment, it is. However, switching the pitman from the down position to the up postion reverses the action of the box. Meaning, when the pitman faces up and I turn the steering wheel to the right, the car will turn to the left.

The RHD (Right Hand Drive) steering parts "should" take care of the above-referenced issues.
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Old 07-06-2010, 03:42 PM   #141
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Great work,as usual!
Like what you did with the windshield,very cool.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:39 PM   #142
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

This roadster is fuckin sweeeeeet. I read this one like my grampa reads the paper.....everyday.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:33 PM   #143
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Great work,as usual!
Like what you did with the windshield,very cool.
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Originally Posted by Kevs56 View Post
This roadster is fuckin sweeeeeet. I read this one like my grampa reads the paper.....everyday.
Thanks Mark. And Kev, thanks for the compliment, I'm sorry I can't update it often so you're not reading old news...hahaha. By the time this one is finished... this fall, hopefully, I'll have ALL the parts for the next roadster project and that one will go faster.

I like this budget building stuff!
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:07 AM   #144
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Excellent project from top to bottom, front to back.

Where is the source of the RHD steering parts? England, Oz, NZ, or?
And what it takes to do the conversion?
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:21 AM   #145
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Looks good, I believe I to taught you well... even though we have never met... and I never really taught you anything... I just feel that it tied the post together well because I already posted...

But in all seriousness, it is really coming together nicely and I cannot wait to see it finished. Your rode has influenced me so that one day, a long time from now (when I have the money) I will rod a early 20's roadster. The only bad thing I have to say is that you go too slow for us impatient people who can't wait to see this bad boy done. Way, WAY too slow.
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:37 AM   #146
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Looks good, I believe I to taught you well... even though we have never met... and I never really taught you anything... I just feel that it tied the post together well because I already posted...

But in all seriousness, it is really coming together nicely and I cannot wait to see it finished. Your rode has influenced me so that one day, a long time from now (when I have the money) I will rod a early 20's roadster. The only bad thing I have to say is that you go too slow for us impatient people who can't wait to see this bad boy done. Way, WAY too slow.
Hahaha... thanks for the timeless lessons!

Don't worry about the money, seriously. This car is more about history lessons and passion than money. A lot of these parts are parts people wouldn't want these days. They just happen to fit a time period when combined made something faster than what was available to farm boys and such.

Thanks for the compliment... and for the kick in the pants. Just know that you're not the only one, I've been getting prodding from around the globe, hahaha. Although it's meticulous work, I know the next stage will progress a lot faster.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:21 AM   #147
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Excellent project from top to bottom, front to back.

Where is the source of the RHD steering parts? England, Oz, NZ, or?
And what it takes to do the conversion?
Snyders has the sector shaft and steering gear. I did find a place in Oz for the parts but don't have the link handy at the moment. I don't have the parts in hand yet, so I am not sure if the parts are comparable yet. When I find out, I'll be sure to bring that info here.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:41 AM   #148
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Brent,

Excellent work my friend! A very impressive build that I have been following with much enjoyment. You have built a unique and impressive car with allot of ingenious design work....and it is so nice to see someone else building a T in this early period besides me!

Keep up the great work!

Clayton - MrModelT
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:43 AM   #149
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Hey all...

This weekend, the mock-up should be mostly finished. I've got some NOS Chevy oil tube shocks for the rear and a box from Mac's with all my RHD steering parts.

Progress pics in the next update!
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:05 PM   #150
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Brent, The "T" is really getting close. Hope you get it on the road. I have had Bonneville on my"Bucket List" for a while. I should be there. Only reason I don't make it is if my wife's left hip gets worse. She is in so much pain. The physical therapy just seems to irritate it.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:37 PM   #151
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This is going to be a sweatheart of a car.
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:32 AM   #152
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Brent,

Excellent work my friend! A very impressive build that I have been following with much enjoyment. You have built a unique and impressive car with allot of ingenious design work....and it is so nice to see someone else building a T in this early period besides me!

Keep up the great work!

Clayton - MrModelT
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Brent, The "T" is really getting close. Hope you get it on the road. I have had Bonneville on my "Bucket List" for a while. I should be there. Only reason I don't make it is if my wife's left hip gets worse. She is in so much pain. The physical therapy just seems to irritate it.
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This is going to be a sweatheart of a car.

Thanks a lot, fellas. It is getting there, which is exciting.

Here's todays update: A lot of heating, bending, adjusting, welding and fitting the car to my big self.

First up was finishing the rear brake rods. Wendell put gussets made from a scrapped brake rod and zapped them in.

(Click photos for larger images)

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We could have run them on an angle, like an A would have. However, like mentioned somewhere previously, we chose to keep them closer to the body side/frame rails. The gussets get rid of any "stretch" that'd be allowed by ungusseted bends.
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:33 AM   #153
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A few more overall brake rod shots.

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Next up, brake pedals.

The stock A pedals needed to be changed. In stock form they'd hit the firewall and the motor mount.

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Above are the stock pedals. We decided to heat and bend the the pedals and the cut off the excess steel behind the pedal.

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One bent, one to go.

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Next, the foot pads need to be cut off.

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Old 07-25-2010, 01:36 AM   #154
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Once the foot pads were cut off, everything was cleaned, prepped and welded. They need to be cleaned up and will get any additional attention when the car is broken down to be finished.

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Measuring so that each pedal is symmetrical.

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Torch.

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This is how much we removed from each pedal.

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Ready to be prepped for the pedals.

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They look like they came that way.
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:36 AM   #155
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Next was tackling some of the steering issues.

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The stock A pitman arm needed to be modified to fit a narrower frame and changed steering angle. As well, it came close to a rivet hear as the pitman moved back toward the firewall.

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The two next photos chow how we heated and moved the steering arms in the front. They were not workable after our first bend and needed some attention. Now there is plenty of clearance for everything to function appropriately.

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Below you can see the angle between the pitman and steering arm.

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Old 07-25-2010, 02:11 AM   #156
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Nice i like it great job...
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:36 AM   #157
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Brakes?

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Wendell's guard dogs.

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The new column mount that ties into the firewall. There'll also be a light-weight mount on the dash. The mount is going to get shaped up to look less conspicuous as a fabricated part.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:45 AM   #158
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the shifter had been heated and bent and is now out of the way of my knees and the steering wheel. Also, it shouldn't be terrible for a passenger either. I can't wait to put my Lucky knob that I got from Kirk!

Anyhow... here are some overall shots of the car. Mock-up is almost complete.

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Old 07-25-2010, 07:52 AM   #159
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Awesome Brent! It really looks neato!
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:44 AM   #160
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Awesome Brent! It really looks neato!
Thanks, man. It's great to see it come along and to evolve into what was planned.

When we adjusted the steering arms, it raised the ball ends up slightly. There is only about 5/8" space between the top of the rod and the frame. The plan is to notch it and put tubing in for aesthetics. The red outline shows what we're going to do.

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Also, sorry for the pic quality. I've got a new camera and it's finicky, to say the least. I've got to learn how to use it... and the directions just don't cut it.
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Old 07-25-2010, 11:04 AM   #161
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Next up, brake pedals.

The stock A pedals needed to be changed. In stock form they'd hit the firewall and the motor mount.
You know.....you could of left them as they were and added a new dimension to the phrase "Pedal to the metal".

This is great stuff Brent. I'm really enjoying your build.
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Old 07-25-2010, 11:16 AM   #162
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You know.....you could of left them as they were and added a new dimension to the phrase "Pedal to the metal".
Hahaha, there'd be no stopping or shifting with that set-up!

Thanks for the complement, it's appreciated.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:50 PM   #163
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I like the exhaust, the mechanical brakes, the stance, the body style. Hell I like the whole damn thing.

Not sure how I've been missing this one.
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:26 PM   #164
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I like the exhaust, the mechanical brakes, the stance, the body style. Hell I like the whole damn thing.

Not sure how I've been missing this one.

Thanks a bunch for the compliment. Your car has become a fixture on my work computer screensaver. I'd actually love a few detail pics of how you set up your throttle pedal & linkage.

The set of wheels I'll be running are 21" (which I think is what you're running). I just need to get them blasted so they can be painted and fitted with my tires. Unsure if I want to run them black or another color.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:34 PM   #165
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Looks awesome Brent. Keep up the good work. I have always been a Model T fan.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:44 PM   #166
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WAY cool!
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:22 PM   #167
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Too cool! I'm starting on a speedster for a client of mine right now that will end up "A" powered. Good to see what you went through to get it all mounted and in. I'll be keeping an eye on your thread from here on out.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:00 AM   #168
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Looks awesome Brent. Keep up the good work. I have always been a Model T fan.
Thanks... I've come to realize that if you like hot rod Model Ts then you pretty much like Model T bodies because everything else gets upgraded. Unless you're Clayton (Mr. ModelT) who seems to pull off a HOT T without doing so.

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WAY cool!
Know what's cooler? I got this sick Legion Lucky knob to go on it! I do want a Legion Sticker if they're ever produced... it'd completely fit in on the passenger side of the windshield.

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Too cool! I'm starting on a speedster for a client of mine right now that will end up "A" powered. Good to see what you went through to get it all mounted and in. I'll be keeping an eye on your thread from here on out.
Thanks man! Wendell and I bounced a lot of ideas on things (like the way to mount the engine in a narrow frame) but the simplest idea always prevailed. Unfortunately, we didn't always come up with easiest idea first... luckily we were patient enough to think things through.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:21 AM   #169
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Man, that's lookin real good! T's are so solid. I totally dig the style.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:38 AM   #170
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Man, that's lookin real good! T's are so solid. I totally dig the style.
Thank you.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:08 AM   #171
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Brent, Looks like you are getting a lot done on your "T". Hope you are able to get it done for Bonneville. I hope to be there to check one off of my Bucket List ! Won't have the Hot Rod but I'll be there.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:15 AM   #172
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Brent, Looks like you are getting a lot done on your "T". Hope you are able to get it done for Bonneville. I hope to be there to check one off of my Bucket List ! Won't have the Hot Rod but I'll be there.

The only way the car could be there would be if it were trailered. I don't see that happening. It would have been great... but there's A LOT more to do.

I am picking it up this weekend to bring it back down to Salt Lake. I'm eager to dive into all the finish stuff but, realistically, there's no way that I'd be able to get it done... and certainly not to the standard I'd like this car to be.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:43 PM   #173
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Brent, You are right on about your car. Don't be hasty trying to get it done for Bonneville. Next year it will be finished and makin' them drool as you tool on by. Looking forward to the finished product.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:21 AM   #174
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Brent, You are right on about your car. Don't be hasty trying to get it done for Bonneville. Next year it will be finished and makin' them drool as you tool on by. Looking forward to the finished product.
We'll have to exchange information before you head out to Bonneville, so we can meet up.

I skipped the LA Roadsters show this year but I'm planning on going back in 2011 with a car, either this or the 26 Roadster. I think that'd be a fun place to bring the car and see what people think, as well it'd be cool to meet up with a bunch of Cali folk I've met through this car and the H.A.M.B.

On another note, this morning I checked the Photoshop thread, where I had put in a request to see my car in a 1938 Ford color. I was certain the car would be black, but now seeing what James D. has done, man, I don't know?

Let me know what you think!



AND Thanks James D. You are a ruler, buddy! It is really appreciated!
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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 07-29-2010, 12:20 PM   #175
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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Let me know what you think!

Oh yeah. I'd been periodically checking the Photoshop thread to see what you got, but I encountered it here first. That looks great. It would look even greater with the engine painted the same straw yellow as the wheels.

Is that Washington Blue?

-Dave
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:09 PM   #176
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I would second the engine same color as the wheels. The blue and straw looks good, but maybe a bit tame. How about black with apple green wheels and engine block?
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:57 PM   #177
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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Oh yeah. I'd been periodically checking the Photoshop thread to see what you got, but I encountered it here first. That looks great. It would look even greater with the engine painted the same straw yellow as the wheels.

Is that Washington Blue?

-Dave
Not sure what it'd be considered in Photoshop terms but it's something close to that sample I provided on the thread, which was a washington blue color chip.

As far as the wheels and engine being the same, I don't think I could pull that off and keep the "salt car" vibe. Too "tame" as Need Louvers termed it.

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I would second the engine same color as the wheels. The blue and straw looks good, but maybe a bit tame. How about black with apple green wheels and engine block?
Apple Green, I didn't know that was the name of the engine color. I do plan on putting the engine back to that stock color. As for the 21" wheels, they have no color on them yet. I'm pretty plain and would most likely go with black but "straw" is an option too. I don't think the three colors would all work together so if I go with "Straw" wheels the engine would have to be black... and if I went with "Apple" on the banger then the wheels have to be black.

Did that green ever come on the wheels? I can't recall it.
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #178
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I think this is the color scheme Need Louvers is proposing:



I don't care for it myself. It's too '60s-does-'20s for me.

Triple black would look great on your car - especially with a tomato-red engine block. If you want to stick with the stock Model A engine block color, I'd be inclined toward a stock Model A body-and-wheels paint scheme. Black with straw wheels would look good.

-Dave
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:44 PM   #179
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

That's apple green, got it. That color doesn't fit my pre-war 1938-42 build concept. I agree it's a later build-style color, well on that car it is anyway. Anything other than black is a pretty big departure for me so suggesting bright colors is foreign... and intimidating too.

I do like the idea of a dark blue. I'm going to look at some cars/colors of the era maybe that'll give me a better idea.
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Pre-war 1920 Model T build Reassembly has begun!

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Old 07-29-2010, 03:01 PM   #180
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Maroon with black wheels and blackwalls is an iconic late-1930s look to me. A black engine would look good in such a combination, or perhaps an off-white/cream (to better show oil leaks).

-Dave
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:15 PM   #181
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

I'm running 19 inchers. Would be happy to run 21s. They both have there own look. I tried some solid 16"ers with ribbed up front and 6.50" in back. They looked way too small.

I'll get caught up with the previous posts later, thought I saw some some stuff about B'ville. I'll be there without the T.

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Old 07-29-2010, 06:03 PM   #182
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

Here's a couple shots.
The gas pedal pivots on a couple collars with bushings pressed in 'em. Where the set screws would go on the collars is where the bolts that attach it all to the firewall go.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:08 PM   #183
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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Here's a couple shots.
The gas pedal pivots on a couple collars with bushings pressed in 'em. Where the set screws would go on the collars is where the bolts that attach it all to the firewall go.
Excellent idea... thanks.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:52 PM   #184
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

It's from earlier today, but just so you know, Apple green was a factory wheel and trim color for model A Fords. So it is definitely twenties.
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:02 PM   #185
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Default Re: 1920 T Roadster Build Thread

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It's from earlier today, but just so you know, Apple green was a factory wheel and trim color for model A Fords. So it is definitely twe