Lakster or Dirt Track ???

[nsaylor]

looking forward to seeing some more mods on this car. hopefully it turns out as nice as the 33

[exStreamliner]

I'm getting some interesting info PM'd to me and I was hoping someone might have pictures of the car that is referred to in this message:

Were you aware that the Reggie Schlemmer built/owned '27 "T" that graced the cover of the very first Hot Rod Magazine was a dual purpose car? It spent more time on round tracks than it ever did on the dry lakes. By the time the magazine was published (months after the lakes event) the car had already been torn up in a circle track show and hsd hsd the neat "Kurtis" style nose replaced by a '32 DeSoto shell. The summer of '48 saw Schlemmer and Co. invade the Midwest with two cars (the other was the '23 "T" bodied car) and run in Hurricane and Mutual shows. Thr "cover: car was sold in Indiana and never returned to Cal. It seems to have dropped out of sight after the '48 season. Numerous inquiries have failed to turn it up. convent

I have seen the frontal shot but I can't remember if it had a turtledeck

I haven't picked up a copy of Rodder's Journal's reprint of Throttle Magazine but the covers shot shows a channeled/non-turtleback car that would have been built like mine (wrong year) and I've ran arcross several frontal shots that make it hard to see if a turtledeck was used?

[exStreamliner]

I've had a couple of PM's about the conditionon of the body when I got it... it was in primer and I haven't discovered any traces of a previous paint work... here are a couple of shots from the mock-up

[exStreamliner]

I was referred to a past thread that seemed relevant to the dirt track era:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ggie+schlemmer

Dale Fairfax "Trying to find a real track roadster in a barn has been a dream of mine for may years. I think the problem relates to the evolution of the breed. Their brief flirtation with fame expired in about '53 (at least in the Midwest). The reallywell built cars at that point became sprint cars; the rest put out to pasture while the "Hard top" and sportsman stock cars took over the scene. It wasn't long however before the cheaters in the stock ranks pushed the rules envelope so far that "modifieds" popped up. This gave a lot of guys an excuse to resurrect their old roadsters and turn them into Modifieds. So, the roadsters either returned to the wrecking yards they were born in or evolved into other forms of race cars. I believe that's the main reason track roadsters are seldom found. It's too bad you didn't develope this interest a little earlier-you could have visited the old Dick Frazier #32 while it was on display at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing at Latimore Valley-not far from you. Alas, the car is now back in the basement of the Smithsonian where it will probably remain out of view for the next 50 years."

I attached photo that has me wondering how may channeled roadsters were used on the circle track... imagine this ride with the body lowered 6" like mine was - the driver wouldn't have much protection... they placed the radius rods to the outside (mine were mounted through the door like the one on the Throttle cover shot) but you still had the torque tube through the center which didn't give a driver much space... and when I tried to mock mine up that way the trans and pedal positioning was uncomfortably high... plus I wanted a full three point suspension system and it was like fitting ten lb of stuff in a five lb bag as it was...

[Dale Fairfax]

Keep one thing in mind re severely lowered cars and early Ford drive line. With center steer and centered seat the driver's feet were down in the belly pan. His butt was just a few inches above the torque tube and he probably had only two pedals to be concerned with: stop and go and they were on opposite sides of the bell housing. If it was a track car there was no clutch-just an in/out box. If it was a lakes car with a three speed, the clutch could have been operated by a hand lrver.

[exStreamliner]

Dale... I can't tell you how much I've appreciated your input... you seldom ever see interior shots... I did every thing I could to keep mine low without splitting the bones... and I'm at 38" to the top of the body and a 6" channel would have put the car at least 4" lower... a wild ride even by todays standards... there are a couple exsamples in Muroc When Hot Rods Ran that they were bending down to push...

A lot of us younger guys didn't have the opportunity to witness this generation of cars and drivers... we can find limited first-hand info on the 40's and should all be thankful on the efforts of many to document the 50's but info from the 30's has a lot of voids... I hope everyone reading posts about the vintage race cars truly appreciate the contribution of input of the people who have been there - done that... I almost wish I could start over to get it right

[exStreamliner]

I have been fortunate to have so many PM's with comments or suggestions for additional sources... I thought I would post some of the feedback as well as a couple of additional pictures just take to help in the ID... keep in mind this body was channeled 6" first pic shows back panel that was cut out in relationship with the frame, second shows top of back with welded double tubes, and third the reversed bolt in firewall (this is a replacement)

Aprreciated comments:

I've been researching your original questions re the body you have. I've been thru 4 of Don Montgomery's books, Wallen's Road to Indy, and Al Drake'sand have not found a '26/'27 "T" with the radius rod mounted thru the door. Amongst the Track cars there was seldom a "deeply channeled" body unless it was mounted on a tube frame and then the radius rod was covered by the body. This was true as well with all the lakesters and modifieds I saw in the dry lakes shots. In the track car photos, there were several of the early style "T"s that had the lower rear portion of the bucket cut away to clear the radius rods but even then the mounts tended to be covered by the body. Interestinly enough, there were quite a few of the track cars that had nerf bars penetrating the body-thru the door, below the door, and thru the cowl. Dale Fairfax

I think the y-block looks great in the car. They are a stylish looking engine, although it sounds as though that one could lay quick waste to the tranny you're using. Sane useage will be the order of the day...hummm, trouble brewing. Charlie Chops 1940

There was a tomato soup red 27 here (AZ) in the fiftieswith a Dodge turtle deck and a race car nose. The only other 27 I remember was the famous dragster "old noisy" run by the Lords car club. I think the red T was somehow connected to an old dragster driver/builder named Red Hensley. Hazy on that, Bill Van Dyke

I don't know anything about it's history, but it is shaping up to be a really a nice little T. I agree with some of the comments that it probably served multiple duty- lakes, drags, etc. The dirt track scenario seems unlikely to me, because most of those cars were considered disposable. Yours just has too much quality work into the body mods. Jay Jive-Bomber

could be either a lakes car or a dirt track, or just an old hot rod body. most likely a dirt track car, as most lakes cars would have provisions for a tonneau cover. alot of the dirt track cars also had easily removable turtle deck/ beds that weren't bolted to the body, just 4 bolts/ pins to the frame/rollbar for fast access to the rear end or gas tank. Justin B

I apreciate any or all feedback... I was around back then and wouldn't have considered mounting the turtle deck separate or a common practice of nerf bars through the door... I'm just looking at parts and making assumptions - I could be wrong and therfore looking for the wrong things... so any idea helps

[exStreamliner]

Channeled 27's

[Richard D]

Got me thinking about an early turtledeck...

[exStreamliner]

the rear body panel was cut out 6" for the frame but someone questioned if that may have been part of the kick-up... I dug out the front body mounts that came with the car... the rear mounts were the bottom of the subrail and the fronts bolted on top of the subrail and into the reversed firewall... the three angles give show the relationship and mounting... anyways the combined drop (mount to the bottom of the subrail) is 6" too

[pasadenahotrod]

That is a nice piece you've got there.

I'm surprised nobody noticed that 35-36 Ford Touring Sedan decklid you're using as a seat platform/driveshaft tunnel. How's it sit?

Before some folks heads explode, the Touring Sedans are the ones some call "Humpback" sedans, not some form of open car.

[-Brent-]

Originally Posted by pasadenahotrod

I'm surprised nobody noticed that 35-36 Ford Touring Sedan decklid you're using as a seat platform/driveshaft tunnel. How's it sit?

Before some folks heads explode, the Touring Sedans are the ones some call "Humpback" sedans, not some form of open car.

No, kidding, that's where that pan is from? I have to get one of those!

[breeder]

WHATEVER you wanna call it....ill just call it badass!!!!!!

[exStreamliner]

My first hot rod I spent all the time checking angles and taking pictures because the camera can pick up on visual impact and overall effect that when you're building it you're to close to see... being chopped and channeled I gave myself plenty of room but the interior was my last concern... well after the seat was in and I was behind the wheel I wasn't as pleased with the comfort as I was the look... it drives fine but minor adjustments and positioning could have improved the feel... so lesson learned - I sat in the car often and everthing is designed around the best placement for the driver... the seat was an early choice... first the whole intent was to keep the race car feel and if you look at any of the vintage shots they were leaning forward (not belted-in upright seating)... the roadster back is comforatable so the plan call for a removable bolster behind the seat and a thin pad... the curve of the reversed decklid sits nice with just bare metal (the pading will just be old age insurance)... I'm six foot and I have plenty of room and my body positioning fells better than the 33 but I didn't leave the passenger as much space...

I found a channed T with a reversed firewall - to my disappointment it was't a banger with a Whippet shell... but the bright side of the less than gracefull grill was it was giving the V8 a tough go of it... the need for speed before racing was a spectator sport meant the goal was to win and looking good doing it was an afterthought

[exStreamliner]

Originally Posted by pasadenahotrod

That is a nice piece you've got there.

I'm surprised nobody noticed that 35-36 Ford Touring Sedan decklid you're using as a seat platform/driveshaft tunnel.

Early fabrication shots - Hated to remove the original panel but I needed the room

[exStreamliner]

Jim Miller from AHRF (The American Hot Rod Foundation) commented;

Sorry to say there isn't enough info left of the original car to figure it out. No original paint, no number on the side, not much to go on. They didn't use tubeing till after WWII for inside body supports and that was used mostly in track roadster.

What was the earliest date you can remember tubing being used?

Do you remember tubing being used on salt cars?

And I'm going to add more pixs just to keep it interesting

[exStreamliner]

More pix by request

[exStreamliner]

More pixs

[kurtis]

Love your little car. The body mods are very intriguing and considering the amount of work that has been performed, it's something that's not traditionally found on a lakes car let alone a track car. You have something quite unique so please add more pics. I'll never get bored.

I've had this photo for a while now but i haven't been able to learn anything about it. Seeing your car reminded me of it.
Sorry for the size.

[exStreamliner]

The only non-traditional item is the shortened turtle deck... and the Y Block... but when you have three 312's and a 292 logic tends to rule