Register now to get rid of these ads!

The Fate of Fenton

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 49 Custom, Dec 29, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 49 Custom
    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
    Posts: 282

    49 Custom
    Member

    Hi everyone!

    At the risk of starting a soon to be closed thread, I wanted to let everyone know that after the discussion the past few days about Speedway Motors and Fenton parts, I contacted Patrick's Antique Cars and Trucks (http://www.patricksantiquecars.com) and asked them directly about what happened. I have not yet been given permission to reprint the response, but I can tell you that they are definitely not producing Fenton Ford headers, that they say Speedway has secured the only rights to do so, and that Patrick's is quite sore about the situation. I have no idea where "Fenton" Ford headers are produced (though there has been much speculation that it's overseas).

    So what's the point? I'm curious: how many of you would be prepared to put your money where your mouth is? If there was enough demand for "made in America" Flathead cast iron headers, would you put the money up in advance, potentially wait for manufacture, and pay more if they were made?

    I would.
     
  2. studhud
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,403

    studhud
    Member

    I would buy a pair as well.
    Dave Hitch
     
  3. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    Let the Fenton thing go. Just make the same thing, just call it something else. Make it in America and sell it under another name. Figure out a new name and be proud of it. Let Speedway have Fenton if they want. The new Fentons aren't vintage anyway. Make some new things, better than old, give it a new name and move on.

    People who want quality will buy them. And people who want cheap, fake 'vintage' will buy the Speedway copies.
     
  4. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    sorta like off shore designer clothing, except it will be made here on our shores, we could tweak the name, I can see it now....

    FENTEN!

    it sucks that this whole thing is going down, I bought 2 pair of the "old style" from Patricks about 2 years ago, traded a set to a bro in our club, he had a set of the new Speedway versions w/the TM casting on the name, the new ones look kinda lame.
    Speedy Rats gotta eat homies!

    Cheatercarl
     

  5. 49 Custom
    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
    Posts: 282

    49 Custom
    Member

    That's exactly what I'm suggesting. If Patrick's had enough support, I bet they could do it.
     
  6. OoltewahSpeedShop
    Joined: Oct 18, 2007
    Posts: 3,103

    OoltewahSpeedShop
    Member

    EXACTLY!!! Well put.


     
  7. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    How about just "Patrick's". I like simple and obvious. That way no question who makes them. If he hasn't trade marked that, I suggest he might look into it before he gets the rug pulled out again.

    edit, I am not in the market for flathead stuff myself, but yes, I would pay extra for good American stuff over cheap offshore fake vintage any day. In fact, I wouldn't buy fake vintage anything at any price. They could be $1 each and I would still never buy them. If needed, I would save up until I could afford and find real vintage items or whatever the cost would be to get new stuff of equal quality.
     
  8. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,207

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    The point is speedway is pushing out the little guy, which is not friendly, really people should know what is happening, and hopefully speedy bill reads stuff like this and realizes that he is loosing buisiness from people, After the stromberg thing i wont buy from speedway unless i NEED to

    I realize buisiness is buisiness, but then again i like to be able to get quality parts when i need to order them
     
  9. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,731

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    My understanding is Patrick's has the original molds. Bought them years ago.
     
  10. I think he needs to talk to a lawyer. If he was producing them withn the Fenton name and then Speedway came along and did the same and then registered the copyright he may be grandfathered in. I don't know shit about law, but it seems to me like he is getting screwed and needs help. The same thing has happened to me in business. Customer took my prints to China and now I don't see any sales. I for one now will NEVER purchase a thing from Speedway. I hope Speedy Bill is watching this board.
     
  11. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    So, just make the same thing and call it something else. I am not sure how that is pushing out the little guy. I am not defending Speedway. I have never bought anything from them and with stuff like this don't plan to either, that is for sure.

    But, even if Patrick's could still freely make new Fenton copies (don't care if it is from the orig. moulds or not), I would still rather have new Patrick's versions with "Patrick's" cast on them. I like my old stuff to be actually old and new stuff to be just as high quality at min. and expecting even better and clear and obvious as to what it is. It can look and be made exactly like the old Fentons, just call them Patrick's or whatever. I would rather have that anyway.

    Yeah, check with a lawyer though before giving up. Sounds to me like they stole the gig one way or the other. If he legally has the original moulds and was clearly using them for a business purpose as it sounds like he obviously was, I say that sounds like a hell of a strong case that he had a de-facto copy-write on that and a pretty strong leg to argue with. If he wins, he could also get profits and damages out of Speedway.
     
  12. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,207

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    As for the people who say "buy originals", what happens to the value of your originals if speedway introduces a copy of your favorite "gofast gimmik", straight outa china for a 1/4 of the price and a 1/4 of the quality
     
  13. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    goes up in my book. I pay extra for original quality - nothing for cheap copies.
     
  14. 8-Track
    Joined: Jul 26, 2008
    Posts: 396

    8-Track
    Member

    Flathead jack told me that he has a new set from speedy, he said the diference is that they are much lighter and thinner walls than the ones patric makes. also patrics are marked left and right with a part number on the back side that is cast into the part. so if you are looking to buy some you just have to look for the part number on the back to tell which ones you are buying
     
  15. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755

    stude_trucks
    Member

    Well, there you go. If he casts "Patrick's" on them, people who care and know enough will know they are looking at the good stuff verses the cheap thin crap from Speedway.
     
  16. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,670

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    IIRC, back in the day, there were several examples of Flathead aluminum heads that were the same castings but with different names.

    Yeah, they need a lawyer, but Speedy Bill has the bucks to out do them in court, same as Walmart, Disney, McDonalds, etc. can stomp a small business out of competition if they feel the need.
     
  17. 49 Custom
    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
    Posts: 282

    49 Custom
    Member

    As I noted before, the response I got from Patrick's suggested that they had legal representation. Note that going to court = money. Sometimes you lose even if you win. But the point I was trying to make was that if there were enough demand, we might be able to convince this small company to go back to making a quality speed equipment part even without the original brand recognition.
     
  18. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    I have a very recent (less than 6 months old) Patricks Mailer that also advertises that they will soon be offering FENTON Flathead V8 Heads soon!, the ones they have in the ad are 8BA heads, what will come of this I wonder?
    I have a call into Patricks, but no response yet? Does anyone know if they have any Fenton Headers left?

    A question of your opinions...are vintage reproductions "o.k" if they are reproduced in America?
    I mean if something original is priced so out of this world (we see it more & more everyday w/antique auto/motorcycle parts) because it has been dubbed "rare" that I can no longer afford the going price, but someone makes a nice, respectable reproduction here in the good old US of A at a more affordable price, say for instance the 1932 Ford Grille Shell & insert, orginals are through the roof, repros, still "affordable", I gotta go that route.

    Cheatercarl
     
  19. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    Your beating a dead horse to death. Patricks knew how the game was played and failed to cover his butt. Everytime you send a dollar to the Big Guy you enable him to do the same to another company. I been there and all you can do to fight him is produce a better product. Quality will eventually triumph over a cheap knockoff. I answer the phone several times a week and hear the same thing (I bought mine from Speedway, can you help me) I don't have the money to fight him. I just keep doing the best I can to be a competitor with the products I produce.
     
  20. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    A possible helpful note to identify the Speedway Fentons...

    The Speedway casting has the name "FentonTM", the name is followed by the trade mark symbol, Patricks do not & Patricks come in the unpainted cast color & have part numbers cast into them, (like a Ford part would), Speedways are lighter in weight & are painted a dark battleship gray. I just had versions of BOTH sets in my hands today, The Speedway are shaped slightly diffferent as well.

    Sincerely,
    Cheatercarl
     
  21. 49 Custom
    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
    Posts: 282

    49 Custom
    Member

    Cheatercarl, Patrick's said that they have permission from Speedway to produce "Fenton" heads as well as several other non-Ford "Fenton" products. As for "do they have any of their "Fenton" Ford headers"? I wouldn't be surprised, but I betcha they can't sell them.

    I think the distinction between good and bad reproductions does center around the quality of the products. For example, Edelbrock continues to produce their parts here in the US, but I'd be shocked if they are using the exact same casts, dies, and processes they did when they started. The problem surfaces when new parts surface bearing the same name (and expected quality) as vintage parts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  22. buickvalvenut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2008
    Posts: 660

    buickvalvenut
    Member
    from Rialto

    i would..in a heart beat!
     
  23. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    It costs around 4 K for a patent, not so much for just a copyright, but still not cheap. ( Based upon my own OT stuff.) This story reminds me of the vulture who redid the Ramcharger copyright renewal in his own name. No history or work on his part, just being a vulture. Same type of stuff these creeps seem to be doing. Just aquire rights, and send a part over to your new pal in China, who will make you one , and not even know what it is. Guess it's buyer beware.
     
  24. Bass
    Joined: Jul 9, 2001
    Posts: 3,354

    Bass
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    I've been on the waiting list for a set of the Small Block Chevrolet (Black Widow) Fenton headers that Patrick's was supposed to be making since February or March of this year. I've called to check on the status of the new headers several times since, and their response has always been "another 4 to 6 weeks." Sounds like I may now be waiting indefinitely.

    I do distinctly remember Patrick's son telling me that they had gotten their prototype back for the SBC Fenton headers, and had shipped it directly to Speedway for them to look over. This seemed odd to me at the time, and now I'm wondering if Speedway is going to be selling their own version of these now as well?
     
  25. CheaterCarl
    Joined: Jul 15, 2002
    Posts: 639

    CheaterCarl
    Member

    The Edelbrock comparrison is a good one, they recently "reproduced" their early block letter 59AB flathead heads, but they are NOTHING like the original block letter heads, I have had a chance to compare them, not even close! I wonder if the new ones perform better? They sure don't look as cool as the old ones, but unless you are a early Ford V8 nerd (such as myself) you might not catch the differences or even care I suppose.
    If they have headers still, I will beg & plead to purchase a set.
    This is a double edged sword huh? I mean Speedway sure does make it easy for a lot of people to make their dreams come true of building, owning, maintaining a hot rod or old machine & still staying somewhat affordable, but then you have this side of the coin.
    That's it, I'm gonna start collecting Beanie Babies! I heard the pink turtle is rare!
    Sincerely,
    Cheatercarl
     
  26. neonloverrob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2009
    Posts: 560

    neonloverrob
    Member
    from newton, ks

    I'm not a flathead guy (yet?) But this whole deal pisses me off! I will be sending my money anywhere other than speedway! That's a chicken shit thing for them to do. Buncha cornfed husker fucks. (yeah I said that) Just because you can, don't mean you should. What they done is wrong, plain and simple! Watch out everyone, they might back door you next!
     
  27. onedge
    Joined: May 25, 2006
    Posts: 999

    onedge
    Member

    & the beat goes on. parts are crap shoot fellas, you will sleep better once you realize this!
     
  28. Hooligan63
    Joined: Mar 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,343

    Hooligan63
    Member

    Here's the thing,Speedway secured the right to reproduce,but they didn't secure the patent,and anyone can cast a similar design. Speedway should be renamed Shadeway for the shady shit they are doing by putting hard working Americans out of work by outsourcing overseas. Anyone wanna guess why the economy is shit? Because of outsourcing taking jobs away from people in our own country. Take away these jobs,and those people don't have the money to put back in to the economy. It's a repeating process. We're making ourselves poorer while making other countries richer. Anyways,tell Patrick to alter the mold and take the Fenton name out,and he can produce his own headers because he owns the molds and Speedway doesn't,end of story. Speedway can't tell him he can't produce his own headers,he just can;t produce headers with the Fenton name.
     
  29. dieselc
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,315

    dieselc
    Member
    from ohio

    Call them Phentin.
     
  30. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,505

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    What I don't get is if Patrick has the original molds ,,how can speedway offer "true" Fentons ?? or is just the use of the name that is teh real issue

    If its a name thing sounds just like teh BS Harley pulled way bag when with TM words
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.