Hi Guys, Today I set out to install a 56 F100 steering box in a 1932 Plymouth PB but I quickly realized that the original steering column sits an inch or so further inboard than the F100 box relative to the original mounting flanges. Since there is so little of the sector shaft sticking out of the Ford box, when I move it inboard far enough to get the column where it should be the sector shaft no longer protrudes through the frame. I know I'm not the first person to have this trouble so the question of the day is what dod you do to overcome the problem? I know some of you guys have already solved this problem, so how 'bout helping a brother out and post up some pictures! (or suggestions...) Thanks, Deron
it would help to post a pic..or introduce yourself first. sounds like you need a universal joint and a steering sector.
OK, My name is Deron, I live in Huntsville, AL and I'm building a 32 Plymouth PB roadster for fellow HAMBer EZDUSIT. We started with this: It now looks something like this: Now that we have the formal introductions out of the way, on to my problem. The following photo shows the two steering boxes side by side. The one on the left is the original 32 Plymouth box and the one on the right is the 56 F100 box. Note the difference in distance from the tube to the mounting flange on the two boxes. After temporarily mounting the F100 box in the chassis and shimming it to get the steering column in the proper location there is not enough of the sector shaft sticking through the frame to attach the pitman arm. The photos below show what I have to work with: So back to my original question, has anyone here run into this same problem and if so, what are my options? This car is being built to represent what the owner would have built in 1958, so I really want to stay with this style of steering if at all possible. Thanks in advance for any constructive advice! Deron
fab a bracket onto the top rail to mount the box to. don't bother coming through the frame. gusset it up good. there should be others on this site with pics. or go with a corvair box reversed. tilt the column back a tad when putting that mount on the top rail. welcome to hamb...good looking roadster.
I have more than 3/4" of shims in there because the column HAS to be in a certain place. The only way that can happen is to move the whole assembly inboard, hence the problem. If I move it back out against the frame, the column is right in front of the clutch pedal and the steering wheel hits the drivers door. I'm well aware of the fact that I can chop the column just above the box and use U-joints but I really don't want to go that route because they look like hell and are totally inappropriate for a late-1950's era build. Surely I'm not the only person in the world that has run across this problem..... Thanks nonetheless, Deron
Well, you kind of took the words out of my mouth with your last reply shady. Sounds like you know what your talking about and what to watch for. You didn't mention exhaust, but mounting the box on top of the framerail might interfere with your exhaust set-up....depending....but you probably already thought of that as well. Search some threads about cowl steering. Alot of them include home-made pitman arms that may give you some ideas of how to leave the box where it is in your pics. Of course you know that making a pitman arm is scary though, and shouldn't be done by you unless you're a real pro. Or you could go with a cowl steering set up.@?@?@? I wonder too if maybe some of the bigger ford steering boxes from the heavy duty trucks might be closer to the dimensions you need. You're smart...figure it out!! haha
You could also think about making a recess in the framerail from the top of the rail to the bottom....so you can get your pitman arm and nut on there, plus allow for your pitman arm movement. You'll have to bend the arm outward a bit to give you some more clearance there but I think that might be your best bet!! And don't forget that bending a pitman arm can be scary too and make sure you know what you're doing before you do it. I tried to get you a picture from the socal speed shop website but can't get it. www.socalspeedshop.com Scroll down on the main page and you'll see Tom Lieb's 29 Ford roadster. It's on a deuce frame and it looks like there is a recess in it...your's would have to be a little more deep but you get the idea.
Thanks Dubb, Like my Dad always says, if this stuff was easy everybody would be doing it...... This is a full fendered car to boot, so the top of the framerail setup is out of the question too. When I mocked up the motor this afternoon I did have to remove the header because it got into the top of the box, but a little jockeying around of the motor left me enough room above the box that I can build my own set and fix that. It may well come down to me having to use a more modern box and u-joints but my preference is something more period-correct. The original intent of this thread was to see if any HAMBers out there had lengthened a sector shaft successfully, or possibly modified a pitman arm with a female extension that could be slipped over the sector shaft and bolted inside the frame rail, or ????? Sometimes the simplest solutions are the ones you overlook, so I though it surely couldn't hurt to ask. Here's a photo from the front that shows the column in the correct location where it has to be. Thanks, Deron
Like I said, you gotta search cowl steering or home-made pitman arms and you'll see how guys are reworking pitman arms to essentially make the sector shaft longer. I really think the safest, trickest, and quickest deal would be to recess the frame where the box is mounted like in that Lieb car. Then you get to keep the set-up you got. It's your decision but you've got my vote.
ps. as a FNG, guys will work you over about the search option on here and the lack of using it. Why ask a question that you could answer yourself by spending a little time digging around what has already been said many times before by guys who know what they're talking about. If you can't find it here by searching, then ask.
Trust me, I've worn out the search function and haven't found anything that really helped. Not saying that its not here, just that I haven't found it..... As for the recess, I had thought about that this morning but it would have to be nearly the entire thickness of the frame rail and I couldn't figure out any way to restore the rigidity if I cut that much out. But yeah, its starting to look like an option. Thanks again, Deron
Quite a few take this challenge on by cutting the flange off the steering box and rewelding it on a slight angle. By mounting the box at a slight angle you can get the box to mount in the correct position for steering alignment and get the steering wheel in a comfortable position. This will put the wheel at a slight angle, not square to the driver, but that can be overlooked. Second approach is to make an extension to the shaft that will require some additional welding and bearing support to prevent the box and pitman arm from being overloaded and fail. Why not rebuild the PB box? Nice looking roadster.
What about using a 42-48 Ford passenger box? Set it up as a cross steer. You can fill the hole in the frame. May have to make a new steering arm off the passenger spindle, but you can get the column to sit in a comfortable position with out compromising the steering functionality or safety.
here is a good thing to remember about search. put the word you are searching for in quotations or parenthesis "roadster" or (roadster) sometimes that helps.
As I see it, you need length added to your '56 box. Here is my solution. Use a TIG welder. This is a labor intensive way to go, but it will be worth it and will work. If you V-cut the sector shaft on both ends, weld it up square and then chuck it in a lathe to clean it up, you'll have a longer sector shaft again.
Actually I believe Ford used a cross steer from '35 all the way through '48. Definately would be considered traditional. I dig the look of a fore/aft steer, but you are fighting an up hill battle with this one. Early Ford bodies/frames seem more conducive to this set up with an F1/F100 box than yours does. Your car is very cool by the way. Good luck. Mike
As was just mentioned, why not just rebuild the original plymouth box? Seems to me that would be the easiest option. As you mentioned, sometimes the obvious is right in front of you... :~)
Thanks, but that would move the box right back out to the edge of the frame where it doesn't need to be and the column right back into the clutch pedal, and the steering wheel right back into the door, and then I'd have a drag link going through a hole in the fender.... I do appreciate the photos though, great looking project. Tomorrow I think I'm going to look into some of my cross-steer options and I'm probably going to crack open the original Plymouth box and see what shape it's in. Thanks, Deron
you could do a mini cowl steering, without putting it through the cowl. Just extend the pitman arm! Look up some of the "Cowl Steering" threads, and you'll see how they extend the PA then you could just build a small bracket to hold the box in the stock location. Basically the only different in your steering boxes, is the length of the shaft for the PA's.
i would keep doing what your doing and not have a ugly braket or anything and try and keep thinkin it should work
What did you end up doing with the steering? Oddly enough, I am in a similar situation. I guess, exact same situation. I had thought of just using the same box/column and rebuild. Sourcing parts may be a challenge.
Hey Kookee, I spent a lot of time and energy trying to get the F100 box to work with the originial fixed steering column, more than anything because it looked correct for the era that we are trying to replicate and I know it will steer better than the original PB box. In order to get the column centered between the pedals (which in turn puts the steering wheel itself in the proper location) I ended up having to space the box inward nearly 1 1/2" from the framerail. This left just a stub of the sector shaft sticking out through the frame, as pictured in my original post. At that point I figured it would be wise to go ahead and mock up the engine and transmission to see how it would all lay outbecause I didn't want to spend any more time on the steering if it was still going to be a problem. Once I got the motor in and mocked up it became obvious that leaving the steering box there was going to involve not only lengthening the sector shaft but making a custom header and buying a new adapter plate to move the starter to the passenger side. EZdusit and I studied our options and decided that the traditional look of a fixed steering column just wasn't worth all the associated costs, so I chopped off the column and we're going to go with U-joints instead. I figure if I put my mind to it I can find some way to disguise the U-joints so that they don't stick out like a sore thumb. As a side note, after all that it turns out that the F100 box with the high mounted column still interferes with the header. To get it clear of the header it would have to be dropped nearly all the way to the bottom of the framerail which would put the drag link running uphill, and more than likely cause bumpsteer. So the final plan is to use an earlier F1 steering box with the low mount column, mount it up high on the rail (in the stock location) and use U-joints. At least that's the plan for today, or until some other problem rears its ugly head..... Deron
The Jalopy Journal
