History Auto racing 1894-1944

[T-Head]

I found a little more information to ad to the Allen-Kingston, Houpt-Rockwell story. I finally found a photo of an Allen-Kingston on the track during a 24Hr grind that was won by the Renault that is passing it, the caption is below.

Renault driver Louis Raffolovitch passes the Allen Kingston car on his way to win the 24 hour race in Morris Park New York, September 1909

In the summer of 1906 Walter Allen began building three experimental four-cylinder cars, the year following he put two of them to the test of New York City streets, the third he took racing. The few 1907 cars marketed were built by the New York Car & Truck Company of Kingston and were called New York's. That firm had failed by March of 1908, however, at which time Walter Allen moved his Allen-Kingston Motor Car Company into its factory and the former New York became the new Allen-Kingston. By year's end, Allen had produced 100 cars to sell in the $4000 range and had put up an admirable competition record on the East Coast.

[noboD]

All these drivers look like Snidley Whiplash to me, remember him?. How about some more pics of this super charged six cylinder almost-an-Offy.

[T-Head]

In 1907 and 1909 in New York, on the horse racing tracks of Brighton Beach and Morris Park, Renault had two wins. They took victories at the Twenty-Four Hours New York Race at Morris Park, first in September 1907, with Paul Lecroix and Maurice Bernin at the wheel of a Renault 35/45 CV, and again in September 1909, at Brighton Beach, with a schoolmate of Louis Renault, Russian born mechanic Louis Raffolovitch, taking Lacroix's place, and the mechanic Basles taking Bernin's place

The prize was $1000 and a diamond tie pin in the shape of a horse. When the overjoyed Raffolovitch cabled his friend Louis Renault with the good news, he received the following reply: We are not amused. [We remain] behind the Michelin-Renault official ban on racing.

Photos from September 1909:

Written on the first photo, “I play the cavalier, alone.”

Caption on the second photo. Raffolovitch leaves the pits after refreshments.

The third photo is a photo of the grandstands and track.

Caption on the forth photo is “Refreshments–water, air, oil.”

[Vitesse]

Originally Posted by Michael Ferner

Ahh, see what ya mean! You're right, that grandstand looks like Vanderbilt Cup in the Thorne picture, which leaves me puzzled. Only explanation I can offer is that he may have run the car as #22 (his favourite number, as I said) in the events leading up to Roosevelt, and the picture may be from an early practice session.

I had just arrived at the same conclusion, Michael! The stand is indeed identical: in the Smith Hempstone Oliver book there is a race day picture of Thorne pushing the car (numbered 23) off the course after retiring. He looks to have the same helmet but a different pair of goggles and is dressed in overalls rather than the T-shirt (although the latter is no proof of course).

However, another indication that it's an early practice picture is that the car does not yet bear the "USA" shield on the side. Rather than a riding mechanic, I'd have thought any passenger would most likely be a journalist.

[Mac the Yankee]

Originally Posted by T-Head

Here is Haugadahl in yet another car at Jacksonville on the track and the second photo identified as Daytona.

The car behind him in the first photo I have seen before with him involved with it.

T-Head- I've been searching the net for more pictures of Mabel Cody's Fronty... have you been able to find a good profile shot of the car (I'm trying to get a better idea of the shape of the tail)?

[T-Head]

T-Head- I've been searching the net for more pictures of Mabel Cody's Fronty... have you been able to find a good profile shot of the car (I'm trying to get a better idea of the shape of the tail)?

Mac can you post a picture of it so I have something to go by?

[Mac the Yankee]

They're the ones of #11 that Sig is driving in the pics you posted

Apparently, he drove the car for Mabel Cody at times- there are a few action shots of her going from the car to plane on a beach around, and the ones you posted, but other than that, I've hit a dead end.

[T-Head]

How would you like to find this in a barn? ...... Well I did but unfortunately it was just the photos, the car was long gone.

I was cleaning out a barn at a restoration shop which closed that belonged to the famed early collector George Waterman, Jr. He had the Benz racing car in the barn where I found these photos at one point but probably sold it fifty to sixty years ago.

He had other great cars and this one at the time might have been to rough for his tastes, as things were different then. Back then someone of his means and determination could come up cars that you might be able to get running in a week or two. There was no need to deal with an old junker like this but today it is a whole different story.

Every time I look at these photos I wonder where it ended up. Anybody Know? It probably looks similar to this photo of one on Daytona Beach that David Bruce-Brown drove.

[Michael Ferner]

Originally Posted by Vitesse

I had just arrived at the same conclusion, Michael! The stand is indeed identical: in the Smith Hempstone Oliver book there is a race day picture of Thorne pushing the car (numbered 23) off the course after retiring. He looks to have the same helmet but a different pair of goggles and is dressed in overalls rather than the T-shirt (although the latter is no proof of course).

However, another indication that it's an early practice picture is that the car does not yet bear the "USA" shield on the side. Rather than a riding mechanic, I'd have thought any passenger would most likely be a journalist.

Ah, Richard, that's interersting! However, if it's #23, the car should look more like this one:



(if I got that one right, that is...)

[kurtis]

What does the #22 Ted Horn Miller from the '36 race look like? I'm only taking a wild guess, but could Thorne actually be sitting in the Horn car?

[Vitesse]

Yes, I'd say it does match, Michael, although the Oliver picture is a right rear three-quarter view. It's been repainted of course, but the chassis rails look identical, as does the shape of the bodywork below. Wheels, hubcaps and aeroscreen look identical too.

[fur biscuit]

Originally Posted by T-Head

How would you like to find this in a barn? ...... Well I did but unfortunately it was just the photos, the car was long gone.

I was cleaning out a barn at a restoration shop which closed that belonged to the famed early collector George Waterman, Jr. He had the Benz racing car in the barn where I found these photos at one point but probably sold it fifty to sixty years ago.

He had other great cars and this one at the time might have been to rough for his tastes, as things were different then. Back then someone of his means and determination could come up cars that you might be able to get running in a week or two. There was no need to deal with an old junker like this but today it is a whole different story.

Every time I look at these photos I wonder where it ended up. Anybody Know? It probably looks similar to this photo of one on Daytona Beach that David Bruce-Brown drove.

I'll take 2 please. oh what pictures.

[Buildy]

"What does the #22 Ted Horn Miller from the '36 race look like? I'm only taking a wild guess, but could Thorne actually be sitting in the Horn car?"

Ted Horn 1936 Indy.

[T-Head]

Last night we looked at the track in 1911, tonight let's go backward a year. Enjoy, T-Head

National Auto Race Meet, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, May 30, 1910

Viewed from the first turn the camera scans the entire track during the third day of races. Spectators in the stands are on their feet as the speeding cars rush past a flagman in front of the control tower. Crowds in the infield relax around a stream and on the grass near the garages and the Aerodrome. This was the first year when races were held on the new brick surface.

Charles F. Bretzman, photographer.

[The37Kid]

This is LOST?????????? I thought it was restored a long time ago. Could it be the Bergdoll 90 HP MB?

[The37Kid]

Nice photo, most likely a motorcycle powered homebuilt, there were many of these in the 1920's. We need a term for them, they are not Midget Race cars as we know them. I had a 4 cylinder Henderson motorcycle powered one a few years ago that I could never trace the history on.

[Weaverville Studios]

Does anyone have any pix of the Miler-Burden V-16 roadster they can share? I only have one side view pix and I'm very curious if anyone has any others they can share?
This is a scan from Griffith Borgeson's book 'Miller' and is the only image I have....I'll take any and all you might have-THANKS!!-Mark

[Mac the Yankee]

Bob, wouldn' that be a "cyclecar" then?

[Mac the Yankee]

Originally Posted by Weaverville Studios

Does anyone have any pix of the Miler-Burden V-16 roadster they can share? I only have one side view pix and I'm very curious if anyone has any others they can share?
This is a scan from Griffith Borgeson's book 'Miller' and is the only image I have....I'll take any and all you might have-THANKS!!-Mark

Mark,

The other (bigger) Miller book (Like the highly-technical terms I'm using?) has a nice drawing of the Miller roadster.

Anybody have a scan if it?

[Buildy]

The Miller Dynasty.