I've not done this with a 223, but I can give you a little info. First, it depends on what transmission you currently have behind the six (see below). It's essentially the same swap as putting a T5 behind a Y block in a F-100, as the trans side of the bell is the same. You would need to modify the bellhousing and add two bolt bosses. You can get a modified bell from John Mummert, along with the other parts....you could also modify your own with some effort. Go to the bottom of the page here: http://www.ford-y-block.com/truckt5.htm Note that you need a Mustang T5...I believe the GM T5 has a different face on it. At any rate the only ones I have personally seen have been Mustang-sourced transmissions. Flat Ernie's T5 thread may shed some more light on that. As I mentioned, though, it depends on what transmission you currently have now. If you have the light duty, medium duty, or OD 3-speeds, the back of your bellhousing should look like the one pictured on Mummert's page. If you have the HD 3-speed or the T-98 4-speed, your bellhousing is different and the T5 won't work. Probably the easiest swap using that bell is the 3-speed Saginaw, or the 4-speed Sag. I don't know of anything else that really fits it. It will look like this (courtesy of H.A.M.B.'er Rob Lee):
Homespun91, would a ford toploader work at least then he would get a 4 speed??? The outside casing of these early 3 speed f1oo tranny's look very similar to a top loader tranny. Will the shifter end up in a useable location? Just a thought!
Thanks for the info so far guys. I currently have a 3 on the tree. Looking to make it a little more highway friendly. It is wound pretty tight at higher speeds. Am I barking up the right tree with the T5 or should I just be looking for a 4 spd?
Talk to Mummert about using one of his car adapters with a 1994-1995 Mustang V8 T5 transmission, it has a longer input shaft that allows the use of the adapter I believe. You can also use the 1994-1998 Mustang V6 trans, not quite as strong as the V8 one. The 1999 up V6 T5s are a little stronger but are electronic speedo and I don't think they even have any hole in the tailhousing, the speedo drives off of the rear axle.
Fifty, With the car bell, yes, it's a direct bolt-in (or with later Toploaders you redrill a couple of holes & the center hole may need to be enlarged a bit)...with the truck bell shown in Mummert's link, the early Toploader will work, or the T-10, but you have to extend the input shaft because the car bell is 6 1/2" deep & the truck bell is 7 1/8". BigChief did this to his T-10. Also note that the truck bell has the side mounts...use of the car bell in a truck will require some additional thought as the truck bell acts as an integral crossmember, and losing it means a lot of chassis twist. With the HD bell, no, they won't work, the bell configuration is too far off. Bluebolt, those adapters are meant to work with passenger car bells, or T-Bird bells, and you are correct...the adapter also solves the problem of the longer Mustang input shaft in those cases. But, since the truck bells are already deeper, you don't use the car adapter with them...thus Mummert offers the modified truck bell. A link that describes the T5 differences between the various years/versions: http://moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm Some V6 units are OK to use, equipped with different input shafts. Carbs, do you know which 3-speed you have, or can you describe it? And, what year is the truck?
I've been tossing this swap around for a year on my 56 with a y block. I was looking at Mummerts modified bell. My question is the shifter location of the mustang t-5. Is it too far back for the F-100?
The T5 out of the V6 Mustang works great behind engines less than 200 HP and 250 torque. They are so much cheaper then the T5s you find out of the V8 cars, and lets face it, most Flatheads and Y blocks, unless supercharged don't really produce 200 + HP that often. I think that this behind your 223 would be the way to go. As said, go for the earlier ones, for the speedo cable.
I do not know which one I have, and honestly I haven't really looked at it. My truck is a 1954 though.
I understand that the truck bell is deeper, the 1994-1995 Mustang V8/1994-1998 Mustang V6 T5's have an additional 3/4 longer input shaft than a 1983-1993 Mustang V8 T5. This allows the use of the adapter instead of modifying the bellhousing. I have not done this swap myself but it's been described elsewhere, Carbs and Chrome should contact Mummert on the skinny to do it that way.
Ok, I know this thread is a bit old, but I figured I'd bring it back since there is some good info and it's a great place to ask my question... What would it take to use a 3 or 4spd Sag on my 223 (out of a '60 F100, with a 4spd manual)?
Silent, Here's some good material for your bathroom reading pleasure. The first thread is almost three years old but has some pertinent info; since then I've done this for a friend & it really does go pretty easily (more on this below, copied from a PM.) If memory serves you are connected in some way to a salvage yard so you either know more about Sags than I do or know someone who does. The later 3-speed Sag is the one you will want, not the early P.O.S. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146956&page=2 The second thread is newer and most of it is about Lincoln Ys, but in it, Rob Lee mentioned that he was able to adapt a T-5 to his Lincoln truck bell, which has an identical trans face to your 223, since it likely used a T-98 as well. A bit more work but doesn't sound too tough. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328864&page=2 From my PM to someone: "My bud said that all the Sags he's dealt with have had the same retainer diameter, but he thought there was two different ones out there...FWIW. Either way, you just measure the inside of the truck bearing, the outside of the Sag retainer...& sleeve the bearing, or turn the retainer if it's too large, to match 'em up. Bearing supply houses will carry or can get an appropriate sleeve, as can many machine shops. You'll use your existing flywheel (resurfaced...or at least I would...) & pressure plate, if it's in good shape. Find a clutch disc that has the same diameter as the Ford, with the Sag spline count....might even be the same one out of the Ford. If not, then I'd look in a parts book to see what clutch diameters were available with a Sag, & go from there...some clutch books will list the discs by diameter & spline count, as well as by application. Aftermarket makers like Hays & Ram do, too. GM has an annoying habit of changing spline counts & diameters on things, so there's plenty to choose from. (Of course Ford has, shall we say, some idiosyncrasies, as well...) So far the drilling & matching up of the mounting holes, it's pretty basic & should be easy to figure out by looking things over."
Bruce, here from Modern Driveline, we offer a full line of T-5 adapters for the early Fords. We offer rebuilt, custom and new T-5 to fit your needs. One of the T-5 we offer is a front shift model to move the shifter behind the main case to clear bench seats. Besides the adapters, we have conversion clutches to match the stock flywheel and match the T-5 of choice.
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