homebrewed electronic fuel injection photo journal

ramaro · Sep 1, 2009

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 12"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5COwner%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style> I wanted to start a thread documenting my progress on a fuel injection system I am building for the 292 in my 1957 Chevy wagon. I will be setting up a megasquirt computer and use mainly junkyard parts, 'cause Im a po college kid. I have only seen a few homebuilt manifolds for a small block let alone homebuilt fuel injection systems, so I thought some might want to learn from my mistakes. I know electronics are far from traditional but Im trying to build this in the spirit of traditional hot rodding.
I was inspired by the Bass Coupe build to get off my dead ass and build this as I have always wanted to have fuel injection and mechanical fuel injection sounds way to impractical for a car that is my primary daily driver. As I have little experience with electronics, I will run only fuel control with the computer for simplicitys sake and maybe later add ignition control. I have a computer engineer major buddy that hopefully can take me through the basics and help me out. I cannot decide how many throttle valves I have, but I may just use two to keep it simple.
My plan is to keep this fairly simple and keep all the ugly wires and sensors as tidy as possible. Also I plan to pin the rocker studs (62 block), install a larger cam, relocate the radiator, and build 180 degree headers.

this is what i started with. i think my intake flanges may be too thin so they be remade with thicker stock.

This is the flange. I roughed it out using the old gasket with the plasma, then finished it in the mill.

This is the seat i made for the distributor. the clamp mount i made was kind of ghetto so that will be remade in the mill.

This is my delema: I could either get 8 old single barrel carb bases and get them to work with the GM sensors and have my system look like a hilborn system, or get two throttle bodies and run two plenums. I'm kind of leaning towards the plenums, as it would seem simpler. What do you guys think? I may not be able to update this for a while as finals are coming up, but I'll do some calculations to find out the runner length I want, and get some resorces on intake design. Hopefully i'll have some more done soon.

P.S. sorry for the HUGE pics of my arms and the gross welds i only have flux core wire and i'll try to set the welder up for MIG for the rest. i'll make the pics a little smaller next time.

Fogger · Apr 13, 2009

No one ever learns by not trying, good luck, The FOGGER

ramaro · Apr 13, 2009

here is some inspiration
http://www.mcnarry.com/

scottybaccus · Apr 13, 2009

I'm already liking this thread. I wanna see what you do with the intake.

Dolmetsch · Apr 13, 2009

You could use a pair of TBI chevy truck throttlebodies minus the injectors.
Good air flow , TPS is already installed and you could use either one and idle air also installed. I am building a megasqrt controlled deal for a 5/7 Hemi right now . Nice deal using your mill to cut the paltes. I am going to copy you there. Thanks for showingthat. I see it does a fine job. for you flux core swutch to NR211 Lincoln flux core and you will never crave the gas bottle again. Clean good welds with minimal slag. A wire brush will take care of it in one stroke.

Don

tbraginton · Apr 13, 2009

Hey I'm planning to do a megasquirt setup in the future so its cool to see you put this up here! I may have some questions for you down the road...

An idea that was floated my way and might be a good solution for you, should you decide to go individual throttle bodies, GSX-R or other street bikes have throttle bodies just the right size and aren't to hard to come by... Might be worth checking out before you junk the individual idea!

39 All Ford · Apr 13, 2009

Will the thread remain?

Parts48 · Apr 13, 2009

Really nice project..hope to see it around town.

countrysedanman · Apr 13, 2009

this could be interesting to follow, Keeping it neat and not to butch could be tough, but what the heck, you wont know until you try. Just make sure you have a big fire old fire bottle ready for standby.

Brad

Jethro · Apr 13, 2009

You've done so well so far, why don't you make your own throttle bodies. I'm kinda in the middle of the same project as you are. If you have a lathe the butterflies are pretty easy to make and I see you have a mill so you can make the throttle shafts too.Check out a couple of my old threads....
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236813
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301807

ramaro · Apr 13, 2009

tbraginton said: ↑

Hey I'm planning to do a megasquirt setup in the future so its cool to see you put this up here! I may have some questions for you down the road...

An idea that was floated my way and might be a good solution for you, should you decide to go individual throttle bodies, GSX-R or other street bikes have throttle bodies just the right size and aren't to hard to come by... Might be worth checking out before you junk the individual idea!
Click to expand...

haha, actually that's not a bad idea! the university of arizona's formula SAE team has literally a bucket full of 2003 GSX-R throttle bodys, since they scrap them for a regulation restrictor throttle. i'll talk to them. it could be possible to adapt 2 them to my manifold.

ramaro · Apr 13, 2009

Jethro, your setups are very cool! i may use your idea for making the velocity stacks. thanks guys.

Dolmetsch · Apr 14, 2009

Individual throttle bodies? I have 6 snowmobile carbs on my /6. I had thought of usingthem as TBs only on another project. Might not be big enouf for your engine even with 8. (1 3/4 " bore)I am doing an IR for a 5/7 hemi. I am using junk yard TBs . At the pull and pay yard it is just by the pound.
Don

1950ChevySuburban · Apr 14, 2009

I see we're both in Tucson, and I've Megasquirted my '50 Burb almost 2 years ago now. Let me know if I can be of any help, I just learned as I went.

PM me, I'm on the NW side.

Thunderace · Apr 14, 2009

I think a number of us are coming to realise that EFI has advantages,
I have had in the back of my mind going the same route with a Hemi for the street.
GSX-R throttle bodies sounds like an darned neat plan,
not sure how many Bhp a GSX can make on stock induction,
but you kind of figure doubling the number should put you ballpark for a mild tune V8.
I like it, looking forward to the next installment !

JAWS · Apr 14, 2009

Ramaro, check out this link for some parts and ideas. http://www.auto-nomics.com/ashistory.html

The owner, Bruce was very knowledge able and great to work with.

Good luck! I hope this thread stays around, I would love to see your progress.

PS if you look under the "Users Group" you will find my old work truck.

zman · Apr 14, 2009

Thunderace said: ↑

GSX-R throttle bodies sounds like an darned neat plan,
not sure how many Bhp a GSX can make on stock induction,
but you kind of figure doubling the number should put you ballpark for a mild tune V8.
Click to expand...

Over 200 rear wheel Hp with out much work at all. 191 Bhp from the factory. And that's at a much higher RPM than your standard V8 will ever see.

Thunderace · Apr 14, 2009

Thanks, 200 at the back wheel, losses in bike gearbox are probably fairly low,
but even allowing only ten percent still means two banks should flow enough air to supply a 440bhp V8 without any problem, possibly more.
Sounds kind of promising to my way of thinking.

Dolmetsch · Apr 14, 2009

With IR you need sufficient for one cylinder since it cant steal from nearby. A real simple but practical way is to make sure you throttle bore is at least the size of your intake valve.

ramaro · Apr 14, 2009

the more and more i look at it, i think independent runners and 8 throttle bodies may be the way to go. Thanks guys for the input, as I'll need all the help and motivation I can get. here is a pic of a set gixxer throttle bodies from ebay.

I'm going to go home right now and figure out how to adapt my intake runners to the rectangular ports.

GMC BUBBA · Apr 14, 2009

Ramaro and any other hamber...

When ya get ready for some actual fuel parts or injectors to use , trial, etc pm me with your plans and ideas and i will try to help.
As the owner of Linder Fuel Injection on Gasoline Alley in Indianapolis i have a lot of cores and can flow up anything you would need. As well as offer assistance at no charge .
www.lindertech.com
www.bubbashotrodshop.com

We have a deal for you hamb guys working up a system.

stealthcruiser · Apr 14, 2009

GMC BUBBA said: ↑

Ramaro and any other hamber...

When ya get ready for some actual fuel parts or injectors to use , trial, etc pm me with your plans and ideas and i will try to help.
As the owner of Linder Fuel Injection on Gasoline Alley in Indianapolis i have a lot of cores and can flow up anything you would need. As well as offer assistance at no charge .
www.lindertech.com
www.bubbashotrodshop.com

We have a deal for you hamb guys working up a system.
Click to expand...

THAT is a damn fine offer there!!!!!!

Thank you very much!

ramaro · Apr 14, 2009

thanks GMC Bubba, that's mighty kind of you. I'll let you know.

Dolmetsch · Apr 14, 2009

I am using these on my current project. Cost was $17 at the you pull and pay by the pound yard

ramaro · Apr 14, 2009

Dolmetsch said: ↑

I am using these on my current project. Cost was $17 at the you pull and pay by the pound yard
Click to expand...

are those ford throttle bodies? my dads bronco has something like that on his 5.8L

GMC BUBBA · Apr 15, 2009

Dolmetsch said: ↑

I am using these on my current project. Cost was $17 at the you pull and pay by the pound yard
Click to expand...

Just a thought on those throttle bodies, you might want to bush them down in size as the air flow of eight large holes are very hard to get the fuel map to follow etc. Still have the killer look and work pretty well also..

Dolmetsch · Apr 15, 2009

They are actualy just barely big enough. If anything on the small side of the requirment. Time will tell of course but I am not trying to street it. Just drags. I think I have become addicted to IR set ups. They are a lot of fun. This is my last one.
Don

nitrohonkey · Apr 22, 2009

I like it!
Thought about doing something similar on my cad engine.

zibo · Apr 22, 2009

There is a BOSCH fuel injection system used on 70's mercedes, v-8's like the 450se.
They are plentiful at the junkyards,
since tranny's usually burnt out or the overhead cam engines seized up,
but the bosch system was known to be bulletproof.

If you have a pickapart i'd take a stroll over there and see if there's anything to scrounge out,
while there is alot of sensors used and it has a "computer",
lots of it is mechanical, like the "fuel rail" and injectors and stuff.

TP

ramaro · Apr 22, 2009

I talked to the formula SAE guys and they want 100 dollars for 8 throttle bodies(two sets),Which is not bad but they look a little too "high tech". Zibo, I'll see if there are any MB's around the junkyards. I have heard those old Bosch systems were pretty simple too.
anyway, I started on the intake runners.

still not sure if i want plenums or individual runners, but I guess I could just pick one design and if it doesn't work, make another.

homebrewed electronic fuel injection photo journal

Fogger Member from San Fernando, Calif

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