1 step forward, 10 steps back.......

Well sh#t! I was making great progress on getting the rpu chassis bolted together for what I thought would be the last time. We got the front & rear suspension bolted up, & things were really looking good. Then we started to put the final torque on the bolts.

As soon as the bolts would just get snug, as we tightened each bolt, we heard a rather ugly CRACKING sound coming from the powder coating, followed by the clear powder coat star-cracking around each washer

You've gotta be freaking kidding me-wtf??? Well it became very clear upon taking it apart to see what is going on.

I had the frame powder coated, first with an epoxy powder coat primer, then the black, and finally a clear powder coat. A 3-step process, but supposed to be very durable & good looking.

What is happening is that the clear powder coat did not tie into the black at all. As soon as any pressure is put upon it from the washer, it cracks like a brittle egg shell, and then can be peeled right off of the black powder coat like a piece of thick saran-wrap.....

The epoxy primer & black is on there tough as nails, but the clear is not. So the bottom line is that the entire frame, as well as EVERY damn piece that is now black has to be stripped to bare again. I am sick.

Besides the fact that I have now taken a REALLY serious step backwards, I really have no desire right now to go through all that work again. The coater wants to make it right, but I have LOTS of time/money getting the frame prepped & filled with high-temp filler to smooth it out. And honestly I don't have faith in the powder coating either.

So yeah, I'm pretty bummed. I once again have a pile of parts instead of getting closer to having a finished car. Sorry for the long rant.

For what it's worth(umm, nothing), heres some pics of what the thing looked like while it was bolted together and we rolled it outside.

Dan

 

Fuck that sucks Dan! Not that it makes it any better but the chassis looks incredible.

 

That looks awsome! Cant you just unbolt the suspension where it comes in contact with the frame and roll it out from under it as a unit rather than disassmebling everything? Would save a crap load of time.

 

Thanks man. I can at least look at pictures of it in the next month it will take to get back there again haha

I wish I could. The problem is that EVERYTHING is coated the same & now has to be stripped- the rear end housing, the rear backing plates, the rear drums, the front backing plates, spindles, front upper & lower steering arms, etc, etc.

No easy way out






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well if its any consolation it sure looks bitchin'
thanks for the heads up on that way of doing it..sucks that your back to square one on the frame coating..is the shop that did it have a good reputation? maybe they will stand behind their work and make it right?

 

Well in that case. Damn that sucks!! Thats a couple days work of assembly and disassmbly. Look at the bright side, you'll be good at it when your done. Atleast they want to make it right and you dont have to go round and round with them about it.

 

I used to powdercoat exercise machines in a factory in Woodinville. Can't understand why the clear wouldn't adhere properly. Was it a temperature thing, or brand mixing or something. Nomakeumsense.

Sorry to hear about that dude ... sigh, the pictures should be pretty inspirational in a week or so.

 

Sorry to hear you are having issues after so much work. It can be frustrating

...but then again, I see 4 wheels and a frame, put an engine on that thing and drive it.

 

Good question, I'm not 100% sure what happened. I am definitely NOT a powder coating expert, but from what I am learning the black color coat should not have been fully baked before applying the clear coat.

The clear should then be put on, & baked to allow the clear to melt into the black, to tie it all together. From what I understand, if the black is overcooked, the clear cannot tie into it, but will only cure on top of it. Plus be really brittle & all that. The clear can be peeled off in sheets.....

I am totally open to input on this.

The downside is that I did the filling myself, & had a bodyshop do the final sanding, because the stuff sanded like concrete. And after doing the work, the bodyshop understandably said that they would never want to go thru that again. So now I am out money from the high-temp filler, & the money spent @ the bodyshop to sand it.

I think I may just get it all stripped & paint everything instead of coat it......I'm not really sure right now though



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Is the Process of powder coating not in the same line as painting?

Please dont get me wrong.. if one product is dry.. and you apply another after that.. is there not suppose to be some tooth or scratch in the black for making it bind properly? could that be why the clear did not stick?

Im not familiar with the powder coating process.
Ive never had powder coating done.. this is why Im asking..

By the way.. the Chassis looks awesome..

 

You know, I'm honestly not sure myself. I don't think that it is the kind of thing like paint where it needs scuffed/sanded between coats for adhesion. Of course, the bare steel needs prepped & sanded prior to coating. From what I understand, the coats should kind of melt together to tie them together. Again though, I am not a powder guru, obviously

Any input from a coater would be awesome



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I ran a powdercoating shop for several years and we always underbaked the basecoat and applied the clear while the parts were still very hot and then baked again. Never had a problem with peeling. There is no need to scuff between coats to provide adhesion. Surely they didn't use powders with a different chemistry, did they? Clear would be a polyester resin, but the black could be anything, such as an epoxy, hybrid, or polyester. I usually shied away from clears when I could. You can use Dupont Mirror Black and it comes out so freaking shiny that it looks clear coated. If you are looking for extra protection from the clear, just have the coater apply the black extra heavy. Normal coat is 1.5-3 mils, but you can build it higher if you are careful. Hell, I had a guy that make it drip like paint when he was hung over. He stopped doing that after I had him strip some parts on his own nickel.
Bob

 

Hmm , If it was from what Ive read in the Baking process.. the place that did it would be responsible for the process do be redone.. would they not?

or have they washed there hands of this?

 

Yeah, it was a few years ago, but all this is kicking memories back in. I ran the primer booth. After the part left me, it went straight to the oven on the assembly line and while still piping hot would find it's way into the final paint booth before going through the final oven. Sounds like they dropped the ball hardcore on this. We used to have a giant oven that we would stick fuckup parts into to bake off (very hot) and when it came out they were like a chalky ash that would have to be brushed off and peened off in some cases.
It's not a small undertaking by any means, but considering the magnitude of the screwup, I think the powdercoater will be eating your expenses for having the prep work redone.

 

Ok, so the stupid question is, since the base coat has been fully cured (as I understand it) why not just peal off the clear and go with the black without the clear coat? Don't most things powder coated just have one coat on them? Is the purpose of the clear to do anything more then offer more protection to the black?

If your thinking about just painting it now anyway, what difference is it going to make? Most of us are trying to learn something here, if the questions are just too stupid, please ignore, I'm sort of used to that.......Gene

 

Man that is fucked up. All the effort and time you devoted to this. Hang in there, another of life's little disappointments.

 

My stomach just rolled over. I'm sure yours is doing tricks. I love powder, but avoid it for just this reason. I would rather have a paint that is repairable in case I screw it up or change something. Hang in there, this will be behind you soon.

 

Man, thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate. From what I have slowly been learning, you are exactly right. I think what happened is that they did the clear to next day.......not 100% sure, but i think.

The tough thing is that I am not sold on the powder coating now. To fill imperfections before coating was a major PITA. The high temp filler we used was a bear to sand, and took 2 days to dry(unless it was oven baked, which I couldn't do.

And now the bodyshop that did do the sanding wouldn't do it again for any price

Aren't cars fun

No Gene, very good questions. The clear will peel off in sheets, but as soon as you come to a weld, or break in that panel, the clear snaps like a twig.....

I used compressed air to "get under" the clear, and it lifts right off. I did do 1 backing plate this way, & it took forever to do. And the frame is so much more complex that it would be a 10 year project. And since the clear flaked, I have no faith that the black & primer are really right either..

Yeah, it sucks, but it is what it is I guess. At some point I'll laugh about it, but that point is not right now

I know the feeling! It sucks because I was finally seeing daylight & things actually be bolted together. It's kind of like having Carmen Electra follow you home & leave




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Well, Maybe this may work.. Try using a heat gun around the welded areas. and any areas that are hard to remove by just cold forced air... with a air hose and air tip in the other hand.. if the product is not sticking.. maybe the heat may lift the tight areas..

and just stay with the black.. without clear.. get some teflon from a aircraft shop ,, 1/4 inch thick.. cut to a one or two inch strip. bevel the edge.. use that to help lift the product.. it will not scratch.. and should not mark the black.. it would be just a safe lifting tool..

Just trying to help..

 

You should see if the powder coater could baking soda blast just the clear off and recoat with mirror black.

 

Man this is a fugging nightmare scenario.

So begs the question.

If time/money/inspiration are an issue, why not just run it as is? It won't be perfect, well is it a show car? I mean it sure could be with how clean that frame looks and the time/money you have in it, but *damn* that really is ten steps back.

Maybe you can fix it on the next rebuild/next car?

I guess my point is I've resigned from the perfectionist club, since I'd never get anything done on my car if it had to be perfect. next time it *will* be better, and I'll know how to do things differently. I'm not getting any younger, I'd like to get this thing 'done' sooner than later.

If it is a showcar and needs to be perfect, well god bless and good luck, that's a tough break.

 

I hate to say it but there is no easy fix to your problem. I think you know that already, but, you can fix it. Its just going to be a pain in the ass.... Be glad it happened now and not months after you had it going down the road.

I would sit down with the powder coater and agree on a proper resolution. Give the guy a chance to do whats right. But I wouldn't clear coat it again.

The guy I use for powder coating has always said not to clear coat, it must be a touchy process. If you want to talk to him, Ill give you his number. He wouldn't mind giving you some insight to why this happened, and the correct way to resolve your problem. Man, I do feel for ya.

 

Wow man that sucks..I am one who knows the pain your going through..
I know how it feels to be so close and you get the knife in your heart
But be optimistic keep your head up...get the powder coat place to make it
Right...it's there mistake..it sucks that you have to redo it all but when your
Hauling ass on the highway it will just be a forgotten memory...

It dose look fantastic tho...

 

All good points, & I do appreciate feedback from every angle. If it was a minor flaw, I could definitely overlook it. The car will be driven lots. But here is a pic of a backing plate to give you an idea of the problem:



I would have been better off rolling on some house paint. And again, my car is not a riddler contender, but I would have a real tough time putting the car together with that mess waiting to happen-fugly....

Yep, it sucks! If it was a lousy paint job, yeah, it would still suck, but it could be sanded & redone. In powder though, there is no easy fix.....
I am thankful that it happened now, & not after the car was together-you are absolutely right!

I may still go the powder route, without clear as you suggest. The black underneath seems really tough, & is adhering very well. I had my 40' ford steelies coated from the same coater months ago, in black with no clear. I have put hubcaps on, & pried them off with a regular screwdriver without even a mark left. When it's good it's good, when it's not-well............

I am going to call the coater tomorrow & talk it over






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I'll let you know about that once I do finally get to haul ass on the highway with it

I even tried to buff it out with a Sham-Wow, and even that didn't help.........


I do feel better looking at the pictures, at least it LOOKS like it is close to being a roller. Thanks for the pep-talk, I know that you have been thru your own battles with your coupe & you did prevail a huge winner. I'll settle for a mid-size winner myself







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thats no bueno

 

Sham wow won't help...Hahahaha

If it makes you feel any better I had to pull all the interior out of live wire today so I can
Take it to the tranny shop...the hydro is not being to friendly latley ..it been leaking and shifting wierd..I only have 300 miles on it so something is definatlly wrong..but ya it will
Get worked out..just like your shit...welcome to hot rodding

 

Hey sorry to hear what happen. I did some powder coating for a while bike frames and rims. The black should have been hot (right out of the oven when the clear was applied) Did some two tone and tri-tone powder work and did it that way with help from high temp paint. If you are going to strip it try the chemical paint remover. I would coat the parts that were f*!ked-up with that stuff from Lowe's with the air plane on it.( aircraft striper? ) It was thick and would coat prts well and stay on. Might take a couple of aplictions , but should work well. Did for me.

 

Man that sucks! I *don't* know how you feel because I've never had any car near that nice. Your chassis is just amazing.

You didn't deserve this, it isn't what you paid for, and it isn't fair. What I think I'd do is try to come to an agreememt with the powdercoater and run it as is. It isn't perfect, but as-is your frame looks better than most!

Doing a quick cost/benefit list...it looks to me like you'd be doing a ton of work for a *possible* 10 or 20% better result, that is *IF YOU DON'T HAVE FURTHER PROBLEMS* with this powdercoater, the work done on your frame, or who knows what. So I guess what I'm saying is the next time around your frame may come out worse.

Just a thought man. I think after driving it 6 months you might forget all about the clearcoat issue, but I'm not you, you know what's best for you. Good luck whatever you do!!!

 

Wow, that does NOT make me feel better......There is nothing fun about taking the tranny out of a finished painted car. My brothers new tranny went south on him almost right away, and it was not fun to get done.

But you are right, we did it, & now he doesn't even think about it. Part of the "fun" I guess

Good luck with your tranny, let us know where you end up with it

That is where I think they went wrong, & didn't deal with the clear right. I am definitely gonna let the coater deal with removal, I want no part of that!

I definitely hear you, The problem is if I leave it as is & drive it, everything they coated will look like the backing plate in the picture! I will have huge chunks of clear powder flinging off the frame. It will look like @ss, & I'll probably get sued when a piece of clear flies into a 96 year old ladies eye driving behind me in her convertible benz






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