Hot Rods Modified Murray: BIG set-back. Lesson learned??

I have a story for you guys...

So a while back I mentioned I brought home an already rebuilt Hemi for the Model A. I had a couple already that I was just going to build, but a buddy of mine and a fellow HAMBer mentioned to me one day that he was picking up an already rebuilt Hemi and said he would pass it on to me if I was interested. Immediately I started thinking that maybe if the engine was was I what I was looking for and the price was right this would be a good move. I took a look at it, it looked great and we struck a deal. In fact since it was so sudden and I didn't exactly have the money sitting around in piles or in the form of gold bricks, he even let me make a few payments.

Here's how the engine looks in the car with my 6x2 mocked up...



Anyway. My buddy even allowed me to open the engine up and take a good look at it before giving him a dollar. Pulling the heads off and dropping the pan the engine looked great. Spick and span and it had definitely been rebuilt as I was told. Still had the cross-hatching in the cylinders and the wax pen marks on the crankshaft from the machine shop.

As the story goes, my buddy bought it from a guy who bought it from an old-timer in Lake Havasu who had rebuilt it. I contacted everyone who owned it all the way back to the old guy that built it. Turns out he couldn't remember a damn thing about the motor, but sort of remembered it. Needless to say the engine remained a mystery. But I didn't feel I had much to worry about with how clean it looked. The only thing that gave me the heebeejeebees was that fact that it had a pretty big over-bore. I won't even MENTION how big (if you haven't already read about it)! But, none the less, all I could do was give it a whirl and hope that whoever checked the block out and machined it knew what they were doing... or did they....

So, I actually did spend a little bit of time with it and put a 4 bbl carb on it and started it up. Sounded AWESOME! Sent chills up my spine for sure! But couldn't get it running right. Figured it was a carb issue but did managed to get the timing in the ball park so it would be easier when it came time to setup the 6x2. I set it asside and continued working with the rest of the car. I later decided to start it up becuase it had been sitting for a couple weeks and I thought I would give it another go. Thanks to a leaky fitting I found that an early Hemi can ALSO serve up a mean latte... YEP! That's right! Coolant in the oil!



Not good! I started racking my brain! "What could I have over-looked??!" Did I blow a head gasket? Maybe I screwed up a gasket somewhere when I put it back together? Maybe there was a stud that didn't get sealed or something... I sent my heads out to be decked and cleaned up. Checked out fine. That got me REALLY worried. Taring the motor down further, I checked everything out and came up dry.

Tonight I decided I would have another look from the bottom up. I went through the bottom of the block to look for cracks and then started with drivers side bank of cylinders and started looking at those. I got to cylinder number #2 and... well......



My heart sunk.

This was clearly related to the massive over-bore. I didn't even continue looking. I just went home. Tomorrow I get to figure out what to do. I have a couple other blocks that are good, but I just didn't expect to be in this position. Guess I just should have figured.

One thing is for sure.... someone was NOT careful when doing the machining or failed to see if it was safe to bore it as much as it was bored. I even wonder if the engine was passed on from party to party knowing that there was something up with it. Doesn't really matter now, but.... damn. Back to square one.

Tomorrow I wake up and start a new day and finish taring the motor down. I'll be sure to post pictures of what ELSE I find. Not sure if I really learned anything from this except that things are not always what they seem.

 

On the bright side....it sure looks tits sitting where it belongs! Ain't old cars fun?!

 

My one 392 has a pair of sleeves.........I believe it can be saved.....Littleman

 

what would a sleeve job cost? probably not viable i guess..if the bores are that thin. sucks that you paid for a good running motor and basically got crank, heads,rods and valvetrain...

 

Well that sucks.... I can't tell where from the pic.... I don't suppose a sleeve would help...

Yea, that would just be a temp fix or a maybe at best I suppose....

It really sucks about the massive overbore, it is hard to find a silver lining when even the pistons are useless for a new block... (because of the huge oversize)...

I don't think anyone can say anything to make things better except the hope that you can look back on some past builds that went much better, possibly even with you getting away with a few questionable things that worked out....


Hopefully you can look at things "balancing out" and be satisfied at least a little...

 

I'm going to call the machinist tomorrow about getting it sleeved. The block is definitely at it's limits, so I would probably have to do all 8 cylinders. Let's just say it's a 331 now it's a .040" over 392.

Anyone know what it might cost per cylinder for sleeving? I know it depends of course, but a ball-park would be good. Would like to use the block if possible since I have my whole drivetrain setup for a short bell block.

 

Damn....like I said what is mine is yours, just let me know.

 

And I might have your headlight parts too!!!!

 

The hole is about an inch the way up from the bottom of the #2 bore. Pretty high up.

Yeah, my thought is that if I can have this one sleeved or just use one of my long bells, at least I'll know everything about what's going into it including some reasonable pistons with whatever compression I choose. The rebuild will be waaaaay better than what I started with.

 

Yeah, I'm going to think seriously about it out man. I may go for that IND block you have. Just have to weigh out all the costs and risks. Money will definitely be tight to finish the build now. The Triumph will go up for sale.

DAMN! Selling ANOTHER Triumph to build this car. FFfff....

You have the headlight stuff I'm looking for????!!! Let me know!!

 

damn dude, that sucks. Id try to have it sleeved.

 

Send a pm to Titus..their are others as well but their names escape me at the moment........he would know the going rate of a sleeving and could give good advice....Mine already had it done to it when I bought it......she was my first...........Littleman

 

Oh man, that does suck. I bet that old guy remembered exactly what you were talking about. Hope the sleeving works for you, but even if, you will probably need a new set of pistons and rings too. Good luck with it.

My 392 core is already at .30 and I hope it cleans up nicely at .40 or worst case .60. It looks pretty good and probably will, but you never know.

 

So this is a 331...?..............Littleman

 

Sorry to hear that Scooter...

 

I didn't mention how good that bastard looks in your car......

Sure looks nice,,,, a great looking corpse...

 

YES! It was either him or someone else (who also escapes my mind, I can visualize his avatar) who had 7 of 8 cylinders sleeved. Turned out to be cost effective, but not cheap.

Yeah, from the tone of his voice, I suspect he remembers EXACTLY what was up. But what's a guy to do...

If I can have it sleeved I will just put some 354 high compression pistons in it and match everything else up accordingly. I will need to have the rotating assembly double checked as well as the main caps and everything else as well. This could all work out really well when it's all said and done...

 

Our machine shop charges around $100.00 per cylinder

 

Bwahahaha.... that's funny, but it's not! HA! Thanks... I guess.

 

Set back? All the Mig Welds poping on the body would be a set back, sleeve it or swap the block for a good one.

 

That's about what I expected someone to say. Probably NOT cost effective.

I have another one lined up (a long bell) that already has the machine work done. Just have to pick up the pistons and have a final pass done and the rotating assembly checked out.

 

Now that is funny!!!!! Sorry. Wadda you need on headlights?

Let talk tomm.

 

Yeah, it's a 1956 331 truck engine. The casting was based on a 354 casting and under-bored for longer service life from the factory... guess it's life was a little shorter than what it COULD have been.

Here's what it looked like at TDC. Notice the pistons sit slightly below the deck surface because of the 392's difference in pin height. Lost a little compression right there anyway.

 

I'll call you tomorrow about the headlight parts... Thanks Jimmy!

 

Sure Bob... point out the UNfinised stuff! HAHA!

 

Sorry to hear about this Scott.
I'm depressed for you man. You will come out of this O.K. I got faith in you.

 

Being a 331.....I sure would find another block.......if it were a 392..your kinda forced to try and save it only because people want alot for them..........I would talk to a machine shop just to get the answers for that option........I would forge ahead w/ the rest of the build and put out the feelers for another block....You should find that block fairly easy or a 354...who knows you may find a 392 block once you start asking around......If you find a 392, I may have a set of stock rods I could donate to the cause.....Jimmy White may have something?....Goodluck..Littleman.........you need more compression than that!...well I would want more..

 

I was wearing a Flat Black Industries T-shirt when I dropped the pan tonight... it's all YOUR fault! XOXO

 

Thanks for the words Dave and for the offer! If I happen to stumble on a 392 block for less than a left arm and an upper right kidney, I will take you up on that.

Seriously though, I think you're right about finding a short bell. I actually know where one is right now and we've talked about having it shipped here. It's just rather or not THAT block is any good when it gets here and is checked out. Being that there is two cracked Hemi blocks sitting at our shop now, I'm not sure I could bare to see another one turn out to be cracked. May just go ahead and run the long bell (since the machining is 99% done) and just pick up another set of pistons (which I need anyway) and the correct flywheel. I have everything else.

 

Damn, Scott, we've never even met, but I got a sick feeling in my stomach before opening and reading this. But, as someone said, "If it don't kill ya, it'll make ya stronger." Looks like you are on the road to recovery, good luck.