TECH: Johnny1290's Po-Boys Shoebox Ford Builder's Guide

Johnny1290's Po-boys Shoebox Ford Builder's Guide​

EDIT: 9-27 added links to S10 subclips
EDIT: 3-26-09- added a summary of cost of building up a basket case to the end of this post




9-23-08
This is probably pretty basic stuff for most of y'all, and I don't know anything about flatheads so you won't find any info about them here. A newby to shoeboxford.com asked us to tell him everything a new shoebox owner needs to know, and this is my reply. I called it a builder's guide because I like the way it sounds, and 'all the shoebox crap I can think of' wasn't as catchy! I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of stuff and ya'll have corrections. This is far from comprehensive. Everything is just my humble opinion and I tried to base everything on my own experience and mention if it was just what I’d heard or read. Your mileage may vary, do your own due diligence, and I encourage you to get more expert opinions and advice. I’m just a backyard hack(but at least I'm from Texas! ), but this is what I’ve gathered over the last couple years of shoebox ownership, from here on the HAMB and shoeboxford.com. By shoebox I mean 49-51 Fords.



Thanks to Shoeboxford.com where I’ve gathered a lot of this info, and of course the HAMB.


A *BIG* thanks to Dave Berryman (Texabilly71) for introducing me to the HAMB, letting me use his shop and driveway, and otherwise take advantage of his Texan generosity!

Thanks to everybody else I may have missed, and good luck to all! I hope some of you find this information useful!



-Johnny1290


1) Adjust your brakes. If you even *think* they need it, then they need adjusting. If you have to pump your brakes to stop, adjust them. If you think your master cylinder is going out, adjust your brakes before going any further. Etc. etc. P.S. your car will be transformed with front disc brakes. My stockers were in new, good shape, and all it took was a few stops for them to heat up and dramatically increase stopping distance. Discs ain't cheap, but they're sure good to have when some joker cuts me off and hits the binders. More later.



2) Grease your front end. It's the same as above, if you think it needs it, do it. The green bible says grease every 1k miles. This was a real jawdropper for me at first. There are also approx. 16 grease points in the front end. Check the back of the green bible for more routine maintenance info.


3) The door latches suck and if your door doesn't seem to fit properly then its most likely your hinges are shot. Latches can be adjusted, info in the green bible. You can also just put in bearclaws, which are fine, or use junkyard latches(search around to find info on these).


4) Adjust your stock steering box to get rid of the play. There are a couple different adjustments, not just the one on the top, you can also rotate the plate on the bottom. See your green bible. That 6" of play in it that you have is pretty well normal. LOL
Also be sure to inspect the steering box mounts as they aren't unknown to tear away from the frame!!!



5) If you want near power steering here's what I did. Replaced the kingpins(huge difference) put in a volvo steering box, and then will put in fatmans trick tie rods that has a late model idler arm. Now no slop and easy to turn.


6) Bias plies look fantastic, but ride and handle like an old car. Radials will make a big difference. Stock size rims are 15" and 16", with the 15" by far the most common. No reports of anybody having trouble with radials on their stock rims.


7) The rear end pumpkin can be swapped with other shoeboxes, it's really easy to do. You just slide the axlese out a little and then it's just a straight R&R. I've got a 3.31 and that's the highest ratio that Ford put in one of these cars. There's also 4:10 and 3:73 and 3:54 I believe. If you're wondering what RPM your engine will run with a different rear, try a calculator supplied by Randy's Ring and Pinion here: If you're running 205/75/15 radials the height is 27.1, and the trans ratio in third gear on a TH350 is 1:1 just in case


8) A Ford Maverick rear end is the most common rear end swap. You get 2.73 freeway friendly gears, a stronger 8" rear, and you can swap disc brakes onto it from a late model crown vic or equivalent for about $80 from pickapart on 1/2 off day or around $200 on ebay shipped to your door. The Mav drums cost about $100 a piece so the disc brakes are actually the cheaper way to go! Make sure the Mav rear has the correct 5x4.5" lugs, I believe the 6 cyl cars were 4 lugs. The rear is about half inch wider htan stock so you need to kinda spread the leaf springs apart with a 2x4 or something leveraged against the ground, so I hear. But it fits pretty good in the stock small rear wheelwells. I've read this is the u joint to use: NAPA 210-2173. If you're swapping from a stock rear to the Maverick, reportedly you shouldn't need to cut your drive shaft. The only factory 9" rears that I've read and are confident fit are 57-59 wagons and rancheros. If someone reads this and knows of others that definitely fit, I'd love to hear it.


9) Stock 15" wheels will not fit drum brakes due to the disc's larger hub diameter. You could either hog out the center of your stockers or use late model(70's) disc brake wheels. I'm running some swapmeet wheels that fit different cars I got for around $200. If you look on the HAMB there's a guy that sells a hub cover that makes them look like stock ford wheels(covers the extra lug holes) and pretties em up nice. Under 15" is too small to run discs.


10) The brake hoses in the ECI disc brake kit are too short and over priced. You can get some for a 96 chevy tahoe auto zone #77769 left side,77768 right side (props to 5.0 F100 for the tip!) that fit much better and cost less.


11) 1990 Ford Aerostar springs are the cheap alternative to high priced drop springs and give you a good ride. They cost around $60 and drop 2.5"
Napa #2775245, Spicer #5851169 at rockauto, Moog #CC850($47 a pair at Advanced Auto). Also while you're at it replace the rubber donut that goes on top of the spring #b81-5415-a $4.95 pr. at MACs and use shorter bumpstops as well. I got some at the swapmeet but you can always use some energy suspension ones, available at Autozone or wherever. The rounded style on the top is supposed to be less harsh.



Here's the scoop straight from Fairlane Dave, the genius that came up with the idea and saved tons of people money and doesn't get as much credit as the guy deserves.


Fairlane Dave's alternative coil spring post


Details on the part:
Moog PN CC850
These fit 1990 and other year Ford Aerostar (3.0 or 4.0 engine)
They are $65 at O'Reilly and $52.79 plus shipping at Rockauto.com.

Dimensions:
Diameter: 4.07"
Wire Diameter: 0.735"
Free Height: 11.65"
Load Height: 10"


12) Boogie blocks suck, JMHO. Harsh ride and bumpsteer.


13) Front lowering methods: coils can get you down 3" in front before alignment and bumpsteer nightmares AFAIK. Drop spindles will get you another 3" but you need dropped control arms (or to bend the stock ones which is supposed to add to bumpsteer hassles) and you're looking at over $600 easy. You can flip the spindles for free. Opinions vary but mine is don't do it unless you absolutely have to get it in the weeds the cheapest way possible. You have to heat and bend things to get it to align and potentially other various problems. Boogie or lowering blocks are homemade spacers you put on the lower control arms. Harsh ride, bumpsteer, but cheap and traditional. Do a search for tech articles on the HAMB and there's an excellent one.

FWIW I haven't used the aerostar coils on front, but from all I've read and heard anything that drops the front 3" or less won't throw anything alignment wise out of whack that can't be adjusted out. I believe that's why all the usual suspects offer drop coils no lower than 3" of drop.
Here's my experience. I had stock springs that were cut 3 coils or so and got the front end way down. On my 14" bias ply WWW tires the lip of the wheel well went below the outer part of the WW. I'll look around and see if I can rustle up a pic. The front looked bitchin'. The flipside is that when you'd look at the car from the front, you could see the tires V-in like /---\ It was too much and no alignment could get that vertical again, there just isn't enough adjustment possible. There was also only approx. 3" of clearance between the front crossmember and the ground, which makes for a tough time navigating any road anomoly, speedbump, getting towed, etc. It also road like a wagon and really hammered you, and the bumpsteer was so bad if you hit a good pothole the car would darn near change lanes by itself. It was a wild ride! Oh, and of course the insides of your tires would wear out really fast. With my custom 3" drop springs the car drives straight, bump steer is a fraction of what it was before, and the insides of the tires don't wear funny, even with my chalk and broomstick driveway alignment! :-D Needless to say the tires don't V in anymore, either. Drop spindles can be added to the 3" drop springs to get you down really low without giving you alignment troubles.


14) Rear lowering methods: drop leafsprings. They come in sizes up to 4",edit:the 4" at Jamco has a reverse spring eye to get you an 1" lower than others I've seen. Lowering blocks from Autozone got me another 3" without much ill effect, but the 4" blocks I had on there made me a little nervous, YMMV. You can get the drop leafsprings from Jamco, Fatman, Posies, or have your stocker's dearched locally.
You can *also* remove most of the leafs in the rear(search out an article on which ones to keep) to get it low. Look was great, ride was harsh on mine.


15) Headlight rings are not interchangeable between the 49-50 and 51 cars, and neither are the taillights. Doors are interchangeable between all 2 drs, but the latches/handles are different on the 49. 4drs won't interchange with 2drs but will with other 4drs.



16) If you’ve decided to replace your hinges and the floorjack under the door trick as described in the green bible didn’t help, then don’t resort to drilling all the bolts until you’ve tried heat and the airhammer trick, which should get them out easier. There's lotsa different methods, just search on shoeboxford.com and the HAMB. Here's a few good links for more info: Tech Tip 309... Rusty Screw Removal Made Easy and Hinge Removal. Most guys remove the pins and drill them oversize to fit an off the shelf hardware store bolt, or you can buy the factory style at shoeboxford.com They'll also rebuild your hinges for you if you mail them in.



17) These are all JMHO, YMMV about stores: shoeboxford.com has everything you need including take off parts but they don’t give them away. They do, however, know more about shoeboxes than most so if you call them you’ll get the straight dope, and their website forum is the best on the ‘net for shoebox owners bar none. They’re good guys, too. I always try to order from them


Jamco has all the kits like balljoint conversions, PS mounts, drop springs/spindles/shocks, swaybars, all sorts of cool stuff you will find nowhere else. You also pay for this exclusivity They know shoeboxes and are good guys as well. They previous owner Jim passed away recently, and his sons have taken it over and are expanding and updating everything. They’re alliance members.


Fatman: Don’t even think about asking them install questions, and I wouldn’t believe them if they told me what time it was. Customer service was fine when I was shipped the wrong part it was promptly taken care of. Prices are in line and sometimes cheaper than others. They stock the Volvo 140 steering box mount that Jamco no longer does and it’s high quality. The Trick Tie rod kit can’t be found anywhere else. It uses a late model AMC idler arm that gives smoother and easier steering. For sure GET THEIR CATALOG AND BUILDERS GUIDE to shoebox fords, it’s invaluable.


Then the catalog resto places: I like C&G because they’re in Escondito CA and I get my parts quickest, and I’ve found them very pleasant to deal with. There’s Dennis Carpenters, Kanters for front end parts, MACs, and a million more I can’t think of.


ECI disc brakes: AFAIK all the stores that sell shoebox disc brake kits are just repackaging the same ECI kit that uses late model camaro calipers and aerostar discs. Their brake hoses are overpriced and too short, buy one for a 96 chevy tahoe auto zone #77769 left side,77768 right side (props to 5.0 F100 for the tip!) that fit much better and cost less. . You can buy just the brackets and supply your own parts to save on shipping. Also, the beveled end of the spacer went inward on my installation, and I had to heat it up and drive it on with a socket and hammer. Excellent instructions are available if you search shoeboxford.com


18)If you want a different engine, Opie’s makes motormounts that I’ve always heard good things about. You’ll have to search around for them. Jamco can sell you some as well. You're probably looking at around $150 either way. The mounts on my car are homemade and work fine. If you must have a chevy II oilpan I hear you can get one off ebay for around $150.


19)The steering box is trouble when swapping engines. For a SBC the only off the shelf headers that I know work are Sanderson super tight block huggers. They’re considerably shorter than most generic block huggers. You can also use rams horns and make a pie cut in the driver’s side to angle the collector upward away from the steering box. I posted lots of info and pictures here, including the ramshorn manifold trick from How To Build Shoebox Fords : Exhaust Mainifolds
Notice how horizontal the tubes are on the Sanderson headers in the top of the picture compared to regular blockhuggers.





20)Contrary to many sources, you can put a SBC in a shoebox without an early Nova oil pan(but if you must have one, try ebay). My Chevy fits, but has slight interference with the flywheel hitting the centerlink when you turn left full lock. NOTE use a 53 tooth flywheel to gain an extra inch or so of clearance from the centerlink! Don’t forget you need a matching starter. This is what I had to do. To get around the interference, I’m adding a fatman’s trick tie rod kit and I’m just going to locate the idler arm about 1” lower on the frame, and heat and bend the pitman down to fit. That way I get better steering, better bump steer, new tie rods, and hopefully no more interference problems.


21)Most bolt in kits for the shoebox need to be modified, a lot or a little. Either with some grinding(disc brake kit) or different longer bolts(Volvo 140 steering box mount) or a lot of fabrication( I hear the Fatman R&P conversion needs a lot-and in the end your car turns like a dumptruck-YMMV)


22)Power steering truths: There is NO easy off the shelf answer to getting power steering. Fatman sells a mount for a manual Volvo 140 box that works fine(tip:don’t forget you need longer bolts than the kit provides!). There’s a pretty fair amount of custom work involved to make it work, I did a tech article on my conversion here: Volvo Steering Box Install made E-Z tech Jamco sells a Volvo 160 power box mount, but I don’t know of anybody that has installed one successfully due to the boxes larger size. I’ve heard talk of various other conversions but never seen any proof of their existence or know where you could get info. R&P steering is possible with the Fatman kit, but I’ve only heard bad things about it and that it involved substantial re-engineering. YMMV


23) Gastank: The easiest and bestest solution I know of is to use an early mustang gas tank. They come in 16 and 20 gal sizes and cost around $150 on ebay including sending unit. Basically all you do is cut a hole in the trunk and screw the tank in there and you’re done. I scanned an article and posted it on shoeboxford and I think the HAMB as well, it gives you all the steps. It’s a breeze.
Mustang Gas Tank Install



24) The stock front swaybar is a spindly little piece. Jamco makes a replacement that’s over 1” in the $225 range that is supposed to help handling enormously. You can also put a larger (nearly 1” ) swaybar from a wagon on a sedan, but the problem is the swaybar bushings. Nobody makes them in the larger diameter, so you need to hog out the stock ones. If there’s another conversion possible, I’ve never heard of it but I’m all ears.


25)Shoebox front ends suck. I’ve broken this down so many times for people that I hope I can still give it the energy it deserves. Here’s what I have in my frontend: To install a SBC, you need motormounts(approx $150) or you can make your own. You need a modified rams horn(maybe $100?) or sanderson headers(excellent and approx. $250) $500 Disc brake kit $450 Volvo steering box conversion and all parts $450 front end rebuild kit from Kanters and $250 to have a machine shop R&R and the 50 year old kingpins(*NOT* an easy job) and another $100 to have them install the inner/outer a-arm shafts so I could just bolt them back in. $250 for the trick tie rod kit from Fatman for easier steering and flywheel clearance. $220 for custom 3” drop springs(aerostar springs weren’t known about then) and $60 for shocks. I’m trying to err on the low side with prices. As I add it up I have around $2,000+ in my front end, and it’s still a 50 year old bumpsteer prone kingpin front end without true power steering, and a mishmash of parts that weren’t designed together, and a spindly stock swaybar.


The solution? Subframe it with an S10 or early 80s monte carlo. The parts won't cost more than a couple hundred bucks. The S10 is supposed to be a little narrow, the monte is supposed to fit really nice. I don’t have first hand experience, but you can take a look at some builds here and here You’ll get balljoints, modern suspension geometry, factory design, power steering, and every kind of airride or handling kit you can think of thanks to the mini truckers. If you have the means and time to do this, I think it’s definitely worth considering.
I’ve heard rumors of others using an entire S10 chassis or just an S10 rear, but I don’t know where to find more info about that.


Jamco makes a really nice ball joint front end/disc brake conversion kit, but you’ll be 2 grand into it pretty quick, and still have more to go.


26)Kanters has rebuild kits for your front end, but their boots on the control arms suck, either cheap thin boots or o-rings. You’re better off getting those from another source.


27)Your wheel bolt pattern is 5x4 1/2", and most guys with radials run 205/75/15 According to 318ti.org that size radial is 27.1 inches in diameter.


28)Buy yourself a green bible or 3. That’s the repair manual for shoeboxes that you can get on ebay or shoeboxford.com or wherever. I keep one in the shop and one in the house so I always know where to find one, and one in the car wouldn’t hurt so if/when I break down somewhere I’ll have it handy in the trunk with my tools

29) You've got options if you like the look of WWW tires. There's Diamondback, Coker, American, etc, and you can find info at http://www.widewhitetires.com/ to get you started. This is a hotly debated subject on the HAMB and you can search and find lots of discussions of various brands, quality, and price. I'll never know because my wallet cries if I even think of spending that much on tires. I got some small WW Coopers for around $220 installed from some place that advertises on Craigslist. When I get time I'm going to grind them into wider whitewalls and call it good. There's an amazing tech article on how to do this here: WWW Tech and a lively discussion of tire selection and the merits of grinding your sidewall here: Discussion

30) A little more on front ends and alignments: ***DO IT YOURSELF!!!*** IMHO trusting an alignment shop to do it right on an old car is like trusting a wh*re. Not advisable. My experience was that the old timey hotrod alignment shop 'everybody goes to' tried to get me to pay $900 for new upper control arm bushings based on slop when wiggling the tire at 12 and 6 while the car is on a lift. That is a very useful test, but it tells you if your kingpins are shot(after you make sure the wheel bearings are properly adjusted first), not the upper inner control arm bushings LOL And even if he *DID* somehow determine those were bad, his misdiagnosis or failure to mention the bad kingpins was inexcuseable(thank you Chris at Shoeboxford.com for the info! You're a lifesaver!). The other test is for slop in the tie rods by wiggling the wheel at 9 and 3. I don't think piecemeal is the way to go with front end work so I just bought a kanters deluxe rebuild kit and did it all stem to stern and called it a day. To save time and minimize hogging of my generous pal's driveway, I unbolted the control arms from the frame(heads up: On the upper control arms I needed to use a crows foot on the nut on the bottom of the bolt to hold it while I used a 2 foot extension to get to head of the bolt. It'll make sense once you get there) and stripped the brake assembly off and anything else that would unbolt and dropped the arms and spindles off at the machine shop along with a xerox of the pertinent pages of the green bible

and the Kanters front end parts(don't forget good grease boots! Kanter's suck!). I picked them up again about a week later and was able to just bolt the arms back on the car lickety split and get back on the road asap. I knew I didn't have the desire, tools, or expertese to R&R the kingpins(besides the torture of getting them out after 50 years you need to ream? the new bushings to fit), so the extra $100 I spent to have them assemble the inner and outer shafts to the spindle was money well spent, I thought. FWIW the upper shafts were so frozen to the a-arm I ended up just cutting them off since the kit comes with new ones, saved me a lot of time once I realized I could do that! LOL

Now back to alignment. Honestly, most people I've spoken with have just set the toe in and called it done. You can set the Caster/Camber with the wheel on the car if you can find this tool

or make it yourself(thanks to whoever gave made this drawing!). I bought a $35 camber/caster gauge from Speedwaymotors but haven't had the chance to use it. You don't need a fancy schmancy laser alignment machine for a 50 year old car!!! Back to toe in! Longacre racing says it best when it comes to alignment, and I bought their $95 toe in gauge to make quick work of it. Last time I used a broomstick and piece of chalk to set toe, but don't recommend it unless you're in a pinch. But it can be done that way. There's lotsa methods, toe plates or a tapemeasure or make your own that looks like the one in the green bible. They align daggone indycars with a piece of string, I've seen 'em do it, so you don't need a laser! Here's the toe-in gauge I'm talking about


I like it because it's accurate, breaks down, I didn't have to make it, and it was in my price range at $100. The 'hotrod alignment shop' charges $85 for an alignment, so I figured it was a decent investment and would pay for itself pretty quick. Linky Here's how to use it, from the description: "To get a very accurate toe-in measurement jack up front wheels and scribe a true running line on the face of the tire. Place the gauge in front of the tires and align the pointers with the scribe lines. Then move the gauge to the rear of the tires and align the fixed end with the scribe line. On the other end loosen the thumb screws and move the slider until the pointer aligns with the other scribe line. Now read the exact toe-in on the scale. Quick, easy, & accurate. "
Basically what I did was jack up the car, scribe a line on the tire using a jackstand for steadiness and held a sharp pick on top of it and spun the tire then just scratched it with the pick. Do this on both tires. Measure AT THE SAME HEIGHT on the tire, front and back, the distance between them. Then adjust the tie rods equally and re-measure until you get the back is +1/16” to + 1/8” more than the front. That's it! There's much more to know about alignment, I'd recommend reading all you can, but that's a good start. There's also other ways to measure, but the cheapie Harbor Frieght/ebay gauge that measures from the sidewall is too inaccurate for me(scribing as above eliminates the variables of tire wobble and sidewall bulging, etc), so I bit the bullet and dropped a c-note on the excellent one I bought. I also don't have to try and hold something level and take a reading from under my tires with it! Here's more on the excellent Longacre racing website: setting toe properly and toe explained.
The proof is in the pudding. I'd never touched a tie rod before and I was able to do it. After completely removing and rebuilding the front end and swapping to disc brakes and a volvo steering box, I set the toe as above and after hundreds of miles there's no funny tire wear to speak of and the car drives and stops straight. As a comparison my friend put a disc brake kit on his Chevy and didn't re-align, and his $$$ COKERS $$$ were bald on the inside tread within two weeks. That learned me I need to keep on top of the alignment, and since I can't afford $85 everytime I turn around, I'd better learn how to do it myself!!





EDIT 3/26
Someone asked on shoeboxford.com about a basket case build, and this was my reply as to what it costs to build it. Thought it might be helpful to someone.


all this stuff is parts only

front end rebuild-$450 ish via Kanter, but you have to R&R the kingpins yourself ( I spent over $300 on a machine shop to do the kingpins an install the new shafts, and they botched it, but they said the kingpins were hell) and you still have a stock centerlink and idler arm that I'll guarantee both are junk and need replaced, might as well drop another $220 on a fatman trick tie rod kit and do it right and get a modern idler arm that doesn't need replacing every 10k, reudces steering effort, reduces bump steer, and you can also install these 1" lower (bend the pitman down an 1" as well) and you won't have interference probs with your SBC anymore. Springs-$200+ for drop springs or $70 for aerostar. You still have a steering box that I'll guarantee is no good, that's , I dunno, $400 for a rebuilt one that will still be lousy? or spend around $400 to do a volvo steering conversion. You might get away with adjusting the one you have but don't count on it. Spend $400 on drop spindles and $150+ on drop steering arms for another 3" of drop if you want.

Your hoodlatch sucks and will let go when you're at speed. It happens to 9 out of 10 shoebox owners, it'll happen to you. Either just put a safety chain on it that you'll forget the one time you need it, or replace with a dual latching system off a late model. I used one from a late model full size van and it works excellent, for well under $20 at pickapart.

Your brakes are no damn good, the drums are arond $80 each, 20 or 30 each for wheel cylinders...might as well just get an ECI disc brake kit so you can actually stop the thing, that's about $500 shipped or around $200 if you buy the parts locally , may save a hundred bucks or so.

You still don't have a master cylinder, I'd suggest (after mucho junkyard hits and misses)just spending $200 -got mine at piratejacks.com-to get a universal firewall mounted brake pedal and 8" dual booster and 1 1/8" dia MC.

Drop in a chevy or ford engine, use a butch's rod shop or Opie's motor mount kit(around $150) (see ebay or Jamco) and also you may or may not need a dual sump oil pan. My car has homemade mounts but I still have some flywheel/centerlink interference at full lock to the left.
On a SBC use some Sanaderson block huggers or modify a rams horn(around $300 for sandersons).

See this link for more info on the stock front suspension and why it stinks:
http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0902sr_1949_1951_ford_steering_motor_mounts/index.html

Replace those worn out door hinges because I'm sure they need it, pretty cheap if you don't buy the stainless replacement screws, from shoeboxford.com, under $50 but lotsa sweat.

I'm sure your floorboards are rotten because they always are, spend what you want, EMS is top notch and $$$, there's a kit on ebay from smittys speed shop that gives you everything from toeboards to below the rear seat for $500 shipped. You can also just roll your own, but cut outs from shoeboxford.com, cheaper versions from ebay, just depends on what you want to spend.

Your door latches stink and work for crap, adjust them all day and maybe get them to work or just replace with the large size bearclaw kit for under $150.

Your gastank is full of rust and needs replaced(don't even bother cleaning/resealing, its futile), throw it out and replace that rusty trunk floor while you're at it with a '65-70 Mustang gas tank for around $150.

Surprisingly, your rearend is probably just fine as it seems to take a lot to kill one of these spicers, and I'm sure the flathead didn't exactly tax it very much. Don't forget, you can always swap these pumpkins for a different gear ratio, it's quite easy and only costs about $60 or less to ship one cross country in a big paintbucket.

Even the most anemic V8 will be spinning your skinny 205-75-15 tires(my tired 305 sure did). You can supposedly kill the stock rear if you abuse it. I don't know anybody that has, but it makes sense.

Switch to a 5 lug 8" Maverick rear (other options are 57-59 narrow 9" ford found in rancheros, wagons, etc and a 65 mustang 8" rear) I paid $60 for mine without drums, I've heard of others paying $150 for the same thing, up to $300, so YMMV. Most likely you'll get a highway friendly 2.79 ratio(look on the tag), I got lucky, after cleaning away the gunk I discovered mine was the 3.0. Any other 8" ratios are either aftermarket or scarce as hens teeth, so don't plan on just grabbing one at the local yard. Drums on the Maverick are also in the $80 a piece range, so I spent $85 on half price day at pickapart and got a full take off from a 97ish crown vic with rear discs. These are more or less a bolt on. You can also buy the same thing from ebay for around $200 delivered if you don't feel like pulling them yourself.

Your wiring is junk, spend what you want on this, I paid $200 for a rebel wire 18 circuit kit and had plenty for all my girly non traditional junk like power windows and cruise control(!)
American Autowire makes an AWESOME kit for $450ish in its highway series that comes with all new switches and lots of pre-terminated ends. If your car is from a barn anyway, all your switches are junk, this is the way to go, unless you like chasing down all those pieces individually.

Tires are 205/75/15 in radials, I got a deal from some tiny place that advertised on craigslist, paid under $250 for 4 installed. They're coopers and the traction sucks, but they have 3/4" whitewalls that grind out to around 2.5" whitewalls.

Rear suspension: your bushings are shot and you need new leaf springs, I bought some posies 3" drop springs for about $400 shipped, add new shackles and bushings for another $75 or so.

Almost forgot! Add $100 for new door fuzzies as I'll guarantee yours are shot. Add $100 for vent window rubber. Add $85 for door rubber. Add $40 for trunk rubber. Add around $50 for new rubber hood stops and the piece between the cowl and the hood.

You also *will* need insulation inside to keep the heat out from your V8 conversion. IT GETS H O T in there! This falls under the spend what you want variables, that goes along with interior.

Add another $100 for cheapie autozone shocks at all 4 corners.

Add a couple hundred dollars for a rear sway bar to control some of the body lean, or rumor has it you can adapt one from a Ranger.

soooo...adding it up I'm gonna just say $500 for engine/trans, $200 for exhaust(mine was more like $400 but a million variables here), say you can use your stock radiator, door glass, spring $100 for door fuzzies so the windows don't rattle you to death, $220 for cheapo tires, say $1300 on the front end, $300 for headers(you might find something cheaper that works),$50 door hinges, say average $100 for sheetmetal to fix the floor, $150 for latches(gotta have doors that stay shut), $150 for the gas tank(gotta have a gas tank), say $200 for wiring(you scrimped a little), say $250 on the stock rear brakes(give or take), $250 on the stock front brakes, $20 on master cylinder rebuild kit, $75 on the rear bushings (you just ran the leaves as-is or took a few out to lower the rear-horrible ride but looks great!)...that adds up to around $4,000 for a car that doesn't have paint or interior and just a pretty bare bones drivetrain, but is a real, driveable car(albeit one with crap-o stock 4wdrum brakes, but power discs adds $700ish when you're done).

So if you got a $1000 car to start with, you could have something on the road that's a driver for 5 grand plus a lot of sweat equity. Start adding for any other options you may want.

Of course if you find a car with a motor/exhaust that work, well, you can save a substantial amount of money.

Hope that gives you some kind of an idea of what you're looking at and welcome!

Sean

edit:

Just thought I'd add that 10 grand to bring a basket case up to nice driver with middle of the road paint/interior seems realistic to me, at least based on my personal experience. Add or subtract depending on how much you wanna spend or can do yourself on the paint/interior.

Interior is actually really cheap materials wise, you could easily spend under $400 on all the materials you need from carpet to headliner, panels, seats, foam, etc. A walking foot machine to sew it up you can get for between $300-600 on the low end, and just re-sell it when you're done.

For paint/body, I'm spending around $200 on sandpaper/body tools/sanding blocks/etc, and in the $500 range on 2 stage kirker paint/primer/clear and constructing a backyard paint booth.

 

bumpity bumpity bump for tech week

 

Good stuff....

 

My new favorite thread...

 

Good one.

 

Damn good info, but I'd also fill the steering box with grease before I adjusted it. Makes life easier on the box, easier to drive, takes out a lot of the slop, and it's probably needed it for 30 years.

 

Good stuff! I don't know about the G body subframe on a shoe tho, they are in the area of 59" or so wide I believe.

 

Thanks Unionville! Ya know, one of the guys at shoeboxford.com did one and he really likes it, the thinking being that it's not narrow like the S10 and fits better.

Me? Hell if I know since I've never done a subframe. I just think S10 sounds good because they're a dime a dozen and all the suspension kits!

Plainoldmustang: Thanks for the tip about the grease! You're absosmurfly right. Much like my rearend that sure seemed low on fluid when I swapped the 3rd member, who thinks to grease the steering box?!?

I know I didn't when I put that volvo box on...was I thinking somehow that job would get easier when the box was on the car?!?!? I gotta remember to take a look at that today.

 

Thanks. This was awesome.

 

Nice Johhny!

 

Just a quicky update, here's a link to a tech I did on putting a late model hood latch on a shoebox ford hood. The stock ones, I can live without! I know some people say they're great, but since tons of people(myself included) lose the hood latch at speed, something must not be so great!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3295328#post3295328

 

Mine's got one and it works out alright, the trick is getting a wheel with a deep enough backset to clear the disc brakes and still fit the fenders.

 

Johnny....
This post has to be rated the top of the heap.... I got an additional question and hopefully somebody can expand on while Im searching for parts....

WHAT YEAR and MODEL Volvo Box should I be looking for???? Is there any Preferd year..... I would like to go to a power box assuming that it will fit in combination with a 350/350 Set up in my 50 Shoe box.....

Come on guys.... This is a great post lets expand on it and make it the best of the best....

How about some links to DROPPED Tie Rods??? that would be another bit of helpful info....

Rich and Rocky

 

Use the search function...

Volvo steering in a shoebox...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253457&highlight=shoebox+volvo

 

great info here,,thanks......

 

Great Guideline for Shoebox Fords....

Just wondering if anybody out there has come up with and Alternate Rear Leaf Spring that fits a standard Shoebox.... Maybe somebody with the Spring Books could try to find an alternate spring that fits and would give a little lower ride....

Rich......

 

Rich, you have seen the Jamco type? Or I think Posies makes em too. They are prcey but seem to work well, didn't know if you had seen them or just wanted to try and find a cheaper aftermarket-stocker app. I think the Jamco or the like are in the $400 range, which for leaves is aruond stock price I think.

 

Has anyone tried to rebuild worn front spindles by boring out and pressing in a bushing made of stainless or regular steel to fit the stock king pin?

January 30, 2009

Init1

 

Yup...... Seen both of these supplier springs.... But one thing that I have found after years of doing this... Neither one of these suppliers actually manufacture springs.... THAT MEANS... somebody out there has found alternates or they have them manufactured under their names...... I would strongly believe that these could very well be from an alternate vehicle.....

I know that chassis engineering on many of their kits use alternate manufactures.... When I bought my 40 Merc rear kit it came with Dodge Van Springs... Tags were still on them when I got that shipment....

Rich..........

 

Funny thats all going to be very useful info for me. Was actually going to post and ask whos doing GOOD patch panels for shoeboxes now

 

Hey, whatever happened to looking for my 4CV's in Echo Park?


good thread on how to shoebox the shoebox.

BTW: Found a 4cv that I will have in a month.

 

Hey Johnny1290. As you mentioned in the beging of your artical and I quote.

" Rear lowering methods: drop leafsprings. They come in sizes up to 4", but the 4" at Jamco is really just a 3" that they tell you to flip the shackles for an additional 1" drop"

That is not accurate. Our 4" drop springs are a 4" drop. We have 3" drop in the spring and reverse the rear eye for the 4th inch.

 

great thread, it will help me, thanks

 

F.Y.I. The issue with the grease boots from kanter will be the same on a Merc. Just pick them up from C&G, or Dennis Carpenter. Kanters boots are paper thin. Jay

 

If I'm not mistaken the bushings used are made from Phosphorous Bronze that has Oil Inpregnated in the material... The bushing is made to wear... If you were to substitute any materials that are of equal or greater tensel strength you will wear the spindle before the wearing of the bushing.... Best to stay with the factory design and they are available over the counter..... Why go thru the extra work to make your own...

Rich

 

bookmarked! good thread

 

Jeremy........
Your shoebox loooks great....

How about you get hooked up the SHOEBOX FORD CLUB
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146459

And Post some good sized photos of your car....

Rich and Rocky

 

Thanks for the correction on the Jamco info, hottweelz. I updated the thread.

FWIW I don't know if I mentioned it in this thread but those Kanters boots suck.

 

Great post!

 

Got a question.....

I'm changing the rear in my 50 to a 79 Monte Carlo... Obviously the Monte is coil sprung and I plan on using the stock rear springs (Dearched) in my shoebox.... But here comes the problem.... I need to weld on new saddles and Im not finding a narrow saddle that will fit my spring width.... Does anybody out there has a source for narrow saddles?

Please dont tell me to put in a Maverick.... I know that they fit with little alteration but Im also running a 79 Monte front clip and I have a complete monte as a doner car. And Maverick rears here in the Northeast are like gold.... Just too much time running around to look at overprice junk.... The monte rear has 50k miles on it