Sleeved my hemi today

I picked up a 392 that's been home to mice and I suspect some marine life as well. Here is what I found after the heads were pulled. I thought a few people may be interested in seeing the process since there is so much intrest in the old engines on HAMB.




The only cracks I found were in the cylinder walls. It had three cylinders cracked and two that wouldn't clean at .060. I decided to sleeve all 8 and take it back to standard.

Lucky I hung onto Dad's old boring bar. He picked it up back in the 1960's. It's bored lots of blocks through the years.

Since the cylinder walls were broke I went with heavy sleeves. It takes about 1 hour per cylinder to cut for the 1/8" wall sleeves. Here is a cylinder cut and ready for a sleeve. I leave a step at the bottom for the sleeve to set on.

Cut .125 and you start to get a few holes.....

They are pressed in with .0025-.003 press fit using red locktite.
Here is a pickture of one side done.

There is enough press to distort the block, so I do two at a time skipping holes. The two sleeves I filed down were the first two.... I still need to bore the sleeves yet. I plan on decking the block parallel to the crank before I bore the sleeves. Lots of work!!! Be nice to your machinist, they diserve it!!!

I have more pictures in a album http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2041&pictureid=17057
Jeff

 

That's really impressive man. Good job saving a first gen Hemi

 

YEAH!!! You GO man!!! Thank you for saving that thing instead of making it lawn art or giving up on it! I want to hear more on the rebuild progress! Please keep up posted.

 

Thanks guys!! I plan on getting the block and heads machined for now. I need to spend the $$$ on the frame first. I picked up a set of '32 rails to go under my coupster and I wanted to make sure I could save the hemi before I get to far on the chasis.

Besides knowing the 392 will go in the car will keep me pumped on the car. My cars get done faster when I know there's a killer engine sitting in the corner

 

Did those cylinders get cracked knocking the pistons out?

 

It had water freeze in the cylinders. It still had antifreeze in the radiator and block. I magnafluxed it twice to make sure the block had no other cracks.
I had to beat the pistons out with a sledge hammer, but was able to save the rods. The block, crank and rods were preaty clean (except the cylinders) once I got it all apart and cleaned up.

 

Nice to see a saved 92' . . . there are not that many of them available anymore. What are your opinions of sleeving a block in all 8 cylinders - as far as weakening the block for things like a blown application? Some people don't like to use that many sleeves . . . others say it is no problem. Any input would be appreciated!

Dale

 

Xccccelent thread! I know a racer out here with a bar like that. Always wondered if he would let it go?

 

I'd hate to say no problem. Some sleeve sizes you can get hard sleeves that are stronger then the original block. But it does weaken the block on the bottom end. You break the "link" Between the deck to the lower end taking some strength away. I had no choice in this case. This one will be a mild combination and should have no problems.

The sleeves I am installing are 1/8 thick. You can get 3/32 sleeves. They would be better if you just had a block that is wore out, not broke.

 

Nice post Jeff. Didn't know you were that much of an engine guy...

I think I recognize that engine...it came out of my 57 Imperial....better ship it down.

Kerry Pinkerton

 

Eight sleeves can be mighty expensive in these parts, sometimes more than the block is worth. Would you care to share with us the amount you were charged ??

 

Thanks for sharing. It is good to see the process and get a sense of time it takes to sleeve an engine. It is great when you can do it yourself.

 

not when you see what these blocks are fetching on egay...

 

yeah, sleaves are fun, i only usually take out abour .030 at a time so when im boring for a sleave so it takes some time, i have the same bore bar at work, van norman i believe? works great.

then you have the file or cut down the excess from the time, pain in the but trying not to nick the deck surface!!

have fun.

you saved your self a ton buy sleeving it yourself, the sleaves arent reall the expensive part they are like 15$ each or somethning, but at my work we charge abotu $50 per hole to sleeve.

i just tore into a 54 331 hemi block that my dad gave me, it too was stuck badly, i beat the shit out of the pistons and got them out, it bored out to .060 and cleaned up, so i was happy, no sleeves!

have fun
JEFF

 

Why the red loctite? The sleeves can't go any place between the interference fit, lip at the bottom and head at the top. I am wondering if the loctite change the heat transfer between the sleeves and the block, at worst causing hot spots or distortion that could gall a skirt.

 

Congratulations on saving one. Great work. How about the heads? By the looks of the first pic of the block they must be pretty crusty too. I have a Red Ram Dodge hemi that had a family of mice (or maybe a batchelor) living in one of the cylinders. Nothing more acidic than mouse pee. The combustion chamber is pretty pitted. Were you able to save yours?

 

Yeah If your interference is right then you dont need any locking compound. The first block I sleeved, I didnt get it right and the sleeve pulled out while I was honing it haha (I was 16). Since then ive done hundreds of sleeves without any retaining compound and if I am worried about it I'll use Locktite sleeve retaining compound, not red locktite.

Looks good though, good choice to wait until you make the decks parralel before boring it. It'll end up better than stock.

 

Every engine also has its own story. The Jaguar V12s have about the strongest lower end you can imagine. The cylinders are wet sleeves in an aluminum block. The sleeves are hand pressed into place, and get a smear of silicone at the bottom to seal the coolant. But the sleeves stand a tad proud of the deck, so when you torque the head, the head is pressing everything together. They never leak from the bottom. and the fit is so loose that when you take them apart the sleeves and the pistons come out together. Now breathing problems and overheating problems caused by siezed centrifugal advances these engines do have. But damn they have a strong bottom end and about the hardest crankpins you will ever find.

 

I've never had to sleeve an engine, so it's interesting to see it done. Thanks for posting.

Just curious, but isn't a .0025"-.003" interferrance fit pretty tight and create a lot of stress ? I would have thought .001"-.0015" would be plenty, but apaarently not. Is the fit based on bore diameter & thermal expansion or ???

 

By the way there is another point to be made about this thread. That is that it is possible to save just about any engine. The only reason that we throw away any 'shot' engine is because it is pretty easy and cheap to find another.

Now, if you owned a ship, or some huge piece of industrial machinery, that is not the case. You don't just go to the tugboat junkyard or eBay to find a better block than the one that you just poked a rod through, or had mice and rainwater live in for a few decades.

The techniques exist to save just about any cast iron, steel or aluminum casting. It's just that they are beyond our reach - not things most of us can do at home, and not things most of us have ever seen done in the automotive trade.

I have found this to be a godsend: when I have some broken casting, for example a badly cracked head or block, I search out one of these firms that serve shipping or heavy industry. I have always had a positive experience in that they seem so amused by the little (to them) problem I have on a puny (to them) casting (imagine, a head a person can CARRY! Most of their stuff needs a forklift or bigger to carry) that they fall all over themselves helping, taking on the job, and charging either nothing or a pittance.

Rule of thumb: when faced with a huge problem, search out the person or industry that considers problems like that to be nothing at all.

 

Nice work!

 

I have my own boring bar and have saved many valuable blocks. Hemi's were worth saving 30 years ago as there just weren't that many (as compared to other brands) and I can remember looking for a 392 for 6 months before finding a rebuildable one in 1975.
Like Tman said that much interference fit is a lot. I only do about .001-.0015 and locktite the borttom 1/" of the bore when I start to press the sleeve in and the last 1/2"-1" of the top outside just before pressing it home.
One thing about sleeving all 8 (or6,4) is that you get a more even density in the cast iron in the sleeves than in origional castings that are mixed a few tons at a time. The replacement sleeves have (or at least used to) have a tighter tolerance of components that make up the mix than origional castings and the fact your melting smaller batches you can control it to a finer degree. Tighter (denser) material means more of the heat is retained in the combustion process (vs being absorbed into the casting) so there is more heat to push the piston down the bore.

Frank

 

For press I always give .0005 per inch diameter the sleeve measures. I've done 6 out of the 8 holes and the sleeves have for the most part had .002 press built in if you bored it 4.250. I have been pressing them in with a short handled sledge hammer and a 1" round plate. It takes about 10 hits to get it in. It's just the way I've always done it I guess.

The main reason I used locktite was to seal the holes where I broke through boring it. Red because that's what I had. Titus you are right on with the cost. The sleeves cost me about $16.00, and $50.00 is a good ballpark figgure, maybe a little on the cheap side.

One more thing I noticed on the hemi block. You need to be carfull how much step you leave at the bottom. They are thin down low and you want the step to start low where there is plenty of meat in the block.

Kerry the guy I got this block has two cars. The one this engine came out of was a '57 4dr, and I'm not sure about the other one. I can check to see if he has any parts. He picked both cars up for the engines.

 

Am I to understand those sleeves are cast iron? Are steel sleeves available as a catalog item?

 

The sleeves I used were Hastings. Catalog item? I suppose you could say that. Sealed Power and other brands list replacment sleeves for engines by aplication, but they are expensive. Hastings and other brands have universal sleeves you select by size. I had to cut a good inch off the ones I bought.

I am sure the sleeves are made from cast iron.

 

In all my years in the parts biz never saw any steel sleeves made. Late 30s Ford FHs used a thinwall steel sleeve, idea was for a quick way to get a new wear surface without haveing to bore and possiably reuse the old pistons. Aircraft is the only place steel cylinders were really much used and they were turned from forgings to get fins on them. Why would you want a steel sleeve anyway? Iron usually offers a better wear surface anyway.

 

You are right on the consistency thing.

Replacement engine sleeves are centrifugally cast. That alone improves the properties of the cast iron.

 

I think the 8N ford tractors may have had steel sleaves. They were like a can they were so thin.

 

Great job I needed to sleve my 392 ,was pitted from sitting in a boat
Never had a Hemi ,Love them now

 

Great tech....I may need to sleeve my 325 hemi and have been wondering about how it's done. Many questions answered. Thanks.