Projects 56 Poncho Star Chief 316v8 - What the H3ll is this noise?! (Video)

Couple questions, first and most importantly - this noise just started a couple days ago. I have had the car about a week, drove almost 100 miles before hearing this start. A metallic, vibration sound. I initially thought maybe something just came loose and was vibrating, but I can't find any evidence of what that might be. I can't exactly pinpoint where it is coming from either...

Vid of it running, taken from underneath here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nECocmltC9U

can anyone help me identify this?

Couple other questions -

My flywheel is exposed. Open to the elements. I can't imagine that its supposed to be this way. Is there a cover for this?

And is it normal to have some smoke coming out of the crankcase breather (Thats what that tube is, correct?)

Thanks again!

 

Blow by out of the breather is normal. I was watching the flywheel and thought I saw a little wobble,

Does it make a noise with the clutch in
, With the clutch out
In first gear second or third with brakes on and clutch engaged slightly?

Check your motor mounts for busted motor mount.

And say what happens in your next posting.


traderjack

 

Not sure what the noise is. Look up inside the bellhousing. Is there a loose bolt that the flywheel could be dragging on? Or a loose flywheel bolt? Is the starter loose? As far as the smoke, (blow by)...that is pretty common, even on a freshly rebuilt engine. There will probably be some that comes out of the oil breather cap, when you shut it off. Finally... yes there should be a cover for the bottom of the flywheel. I'm not sure if it is stamped steel or cast iron, though.

 

Its the Hydramatic 4 speed Auto, should have mentioned. I will check the motor mounts. I don't really notice a wobble, but who knows how steady I was holding the camera. I will have to look again.

Thanks TJ!

 

There is supposed to be a cover. Noise sounds to me like a rattle also as opposed to something serious.

I'm in the middle of removing my engine/tranny and have found all sorts of things loose that were rattling.

 

Yep, a little smoke out of the breather as well, I wasn't too worried about that. I will have to poke around and see what I can find, it definitely sounds to me like something is loose and just rattling, and I can only hear it when I'm sitting at idle. When I accelerate (even slightly) it goes away. Thanks guys

 

Is there a heat riser in your manifold? If so, maybe the spring broke and the valve is just flopping around in there. Is it coming from any particular side, or from the tranny area?

 

Perhaps the starter is not fully disengaged? Seems like it got louder when you went that direction. Also sounds like you may have an exhaust leak, may be a broken/loose bolt causing that exhaust flange to rattle around.

 

Does the noise go away when it gets off idle?If so it may possibly be the vibration damper has separated.I had this happen in my 55 Pontiac and it sounded like it was coming from the fuel pump area.Had a hell of a time chasing it down.

 

Safari - yep, I only hear this noise when idling. When I accelerate at all it goes away. What is the vibration damper? Where is it? How would I repair it?

 

Could also be a cracked flex plate. But, sure sounds like the starter bendix hitting. Looks to be good clearance for the starter though.

 

Heat riser on exhaust manifold ,spring is broke it flops at idle, steady at speed by exhaust flow

 

How would I get to that? Removing the exhaust manifold and replacing that spring?

 

The spring is on the outside with a counter weight. IF you have one it will be bolted between the manifold and the head pipe. It looks like your car has dual exhaust, so I'm willing to bet its on there. Get a flashlight and look at your passenger side manifold. If you see a little square looking block, reach down there and see if you can move it around. If you can flip that weight, that's probably your problem. Also see post #7.

 

i agree with brian6902 - i think its starter issue - possibly starter gear isnt disengaging completely - or maybe missing a shim? is it the original tranny for the car? check the exhaust bolts, etc just cuz its easiest - but then pull the starter and check for wear - the noise is at the same 'pace' as the flywheel is spinning and definilty gets more noticeable as you move camera towards that side

 

D@MN IT! Thanks buckeye. I just went out and checked it...and sure enough - that spring is loose just hanging on the side of the pipe on the manifold. I had my brother hold it while I started the car and crossed my fingers...but no luck, its not the spring that was vibrating

I did notice that I definitely have an exhaust leak where the passenger side exhaust pipe meets the manifold, but that's a problem for another day. (Thats not in danger of hurting anything is it?)

So where should I start troubleshooting this? I'm going to tighten everything down this weekend - and see if that helps. I'll also check around for a loose bolt or anything else that could be vibrating, and I'll check that spring over on the drivers side. But if I don't find it after that....this could get really annoying!

 

Which side of the car is the noise coming from?

 

Vibration damper is part of the front crankshaft pulley molded as a unit.Requires removing the radiator and fan belt and the large bolt holding the pulley assembly.If a puller isn't available it has to be leveraged off usually with a large screwdriver on either side.This is usually how they get damaged so use caution when doing this.

I would also check the heat riser and the flex plate as well.

 

seriously - it sounds too much like the starter sprocket gear and is too easy to pull and rule out before driving yourself insane!
it sounds like its either stuck and wont disengage or too close to the flywheel so its just barely gettin spun on the revolution of the wheel - when you start the car, does it dsound like any grinding or buzz sound when the starter gets juice? if my suspicion is correct you should see some shiny wear patter on the starter gear.
i think sound goes away when flexplate..flexes

safariknut
i know the sound and thouht your going for, but before having him get deep into - i think he should hit a few bolt on parts first, dont ya think - plus the sound on his video gets far more noticeable on driverside next to starter then quiets down again - seems to me to be behind the motor and not upfront - not sayin your wrong yet, but i just think a few easier things to rule out before damper
IMO anyway

 

Thanks everyone for all the ideas. It does seem to get louder on the drivers side, but honestly, it is pretty hard to tell where it is coming from.

Blackmopar - when I start I don't hear any grinding or buzzing, just turn the key and it fires right up, no weird noises until its running and that vibrating noise kicks in a second after it fires up.

I have never installed or pulled a starter before, is this something you can adjust the distance between it and the flywheel? How will I tell if this is the culprit - should I pull it off and look for the gear being shiny and worn? And if thats the case, would it need to be replaced?

I appreciate all the help guys. Thanks again.

 

yep, get under there and unbolt the starter - im a dodge guy, but my buddies chevys if i recall have 'clocking' positions on the bellhousing and or maybe shims - it might just be a positioning thing or it might be that the starter gear isnt disengaging - which maybe there is a little bit of debris makin it stick or might be redy for a kragen replacment
just sounds like that starter gear is free spinnin like crazy to me
then again, i could be wrong but you got a real car - learning how to replace a starter wouldnt be a bad thing even if it ends up not being the problem
good luck - post after pulling, report what ya see - yea if its bein spun by the tranny it should be obvious

 

I will be tearing it apart tomorrow or saturday. Thanks for the help everyone - I'll post my findings.

 

Man, I hope you read this BEFORE you go pull shit apart and follow some of these guys directions.

Early Pontiacs are NOTHING like Chevys or Late Pontiacs with the repairs that have been gone over here.

First, The stsrter on your car will bolt Directally to the Bell housing with 2 Bolts Horizontal to the ground.

Top will be a BOLT with the head towards the Trans & THREADING into the starter.
Lower will be a NUT on a STUD, NUT beig towards the FRONT of the car.

NO SHIMS available, NO Clocking, THEY ARE A DIRECT BOLT ON ! No slop at all, Machined fit !

Second, If you need to mess with the DAMPNER, It is NOT like late Pontiacs & Chevys.... It will NOT require the Radiator to come out .... It will NOT require a puller to get it off !!!

You will need to remove the 6 7/16 Head 1/4' bolts from INSIDE the lower pully and the dampner & pully will fall off in yer hand.

Early Pontiac have a CRANK HUB & the Dampner bolts to the hub.

If you have a noise in the starter, Replace the BENDIX gear in the starter, It Prolly has a weak spring & just not returning far enough.

Starter is used on '55~'60 ... Different than Later Pontiacs & is an ORDER ONLY part.
They have an IRON nose so its unlikely its broken.. But it is possible

 

drop the starter and see if their is any marks where flexplate has been rubbing and check for cracks.

 

Thanks Desoto, I have the shop manual and was going to make sure I knew what I was doing before attempting any of this. I will pull of the starter and check to see if there is any wear. Should I just replace the whole thing if there is? Or can you find just the bendix gear and replace that alone?

 

BOA - in no way am I tryin to misdirect ya - in fact read my posts (and desoto, maybe you too!) - I stated a couple times I didnt know exactly the way your starter bolts up HOWEVER - I still think it is a starter problem, and the Bendix (ie starter gear) I beleive to be the culprit - note by the end of his post he states almost exactly what I been sayin all along
over and beyond that - if you dont know how to swap a starter, its a great excercise to go through, as I guarantee at some point youll be doing this in a parkin lot or roadside
and Desoto - thanks for chimin in with the real way the starter bolts up - good knowledge for all of us (well for me anyways) - my assumption was that it would be similar to later model bowtie stuff, but admittedly the hydramatic aint in my bag o tricks

still - good luck, and get yer knuckles greasy!!

 

Boy that kind of shit can drive ya nuts.

I chased a noise ( whine) all summer under the truck one time.
Turned out to be a knife edged ring gear, cause the bone head who installed didn't shim it in correctly.

Signed:

The Bonehead

 

Everything you guys are saying is true and good advice, but before I'd go unbolting stuff, I'd try a little harder to pinpoint the source. If you don't have a stethoscope handy, take a length of rubber fuel line, put a bolt in the end of it, and then place the bolt against various parts of the engine, while holding the other end to your ear. It sounds goofy, but you'd be surprised at how well it works. I've also stuck a length of brakeline in the hose to make a longer probe. LIke I said, this is just the way I operate, since I'm lazy, I'd rather spend an extra 20 minutes hunting, than just tearing into it.

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help. I definitely would make sure I researched it for my particular car before tearing it apart. This is whats great about a forum though, so many people with all sorts of different knowledge and experience...

so when I do pull the starter - if I see unnatural wear, should I replace the whole thing, or just that bendix gear? I have no idea what any of this looks like so I sure hope my manual has a good image of one.

 

I'm going to do a more thorough search for something loose and rattling around before I tear anything apart, but I already have looked pretty good and can't seem to find anything. And its pretty hard to pinpoint exactly where that sound is coming from too.