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T-5 behind a small block Chevy?????

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by McKee, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. McKee
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,193

    McKee

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  2. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,109

    scottybaccus
    Member

    with the s10 tailshaft and a straight-up bell housing, the camaro unit is quite normal. You can't use the mustang unit with the SBC, and the s10 unit won't be a good match if you build for more than 200 or so HP. ANY GM T5 is limited to about 260 ft/lb of torque.
     
  3. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    1988 is the first year of World Class Camaro T-5's,it's also the one,maybe 89 too,with a mechanical speedo drive.The WC tranny differs cause it has the gears running on needle bearings,this makes it more durable in the long run but not necessarily stronger.It's the gear material that gives the tranny it's torque rating.Supposedly,WC Camaro T-5's are good for about 290- 300 ft lbs of torque.But 3rd gear,Camaro or Mustang,is the weak link.If you avoid full throttle shifts and teenage burnouts,it'll hold up ok behind a moderately built V-8
    You can buy custom stronger gear sets,expensive,or a Camaro T-5 can be upgraded to 330 ft lbs of torque by using the Mustang factory high nickle gears with a 2.95 first gear.You keep the Camaro input shaft only,use the Mustang gearset. The 3rd gear is durability is supposedly greatly improved.These are available for 350 bucks or so fron the Gearbox Shop in Michigan.
     
  4. ray
    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 3,791

    ray
    Member
    from colorado

    the s-10 bellhousing would be a good choice if you want to run a hydraulic clutch, which i would.
     

  5. TimDavis
    Joined: Sep 4, 2005
    Posts: 718

    TimDavis
    Member

    ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2009
  6. mpls|cafe|racer
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,323

    mpls|cafe|racer
    BANNED

    Agreed on the Tremec. You're gonna find that T-5's are pretty weak transmissions from the factory, especially when you consider that a used transmission is always a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE risk.
     
  7. raven
    Joined: Aug 19, 2002
    Posts: 4,698

    raven
    Member

    Ok, how much do the Tremecs run?
    What are they in?
    r
     
  8. notebooms
    Joined: Dec 14, 2005
    Posts: 2,077

    notebooms
    Alliance Member

    ah.... just gear the rear to match your highway speed need, fill the spaces in between with horsepower and put in a Muncie :)

    -scott noteboom
     
  9. 36couper
    Joined: Nov 20, 2002
    Posts: 2,014

    36couper
    Member
    from ontario

    McKee...........PM sent.
     
  10. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    Camaro t5's can run either mech or electric speedos. To change to a mech, just get speedo parts from a 83-87.
    S10 versions are either one or the other, unfortunately. So look for a 83-87 S10 T5 if you want to convert and retain a mech speedo.

    Which bellhousing to use depends on what size of flywheel you want to run???
     
  11. tommy v
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,981

    tommy v
    Member

    i put a 83 s-10 trans wiith the stock bellhouseing & 10 inch clutch with a s-10 9 11/16 disc, in a 55 chevy, now i have to change the rearend gears,1st is like granny low now
     
    ibcalaveras likes this.
  12. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member


    Thats because you're using one with a 4.03 first gear. A 3:36 or 3:55 rearend gear will work fine and are not difficult to come by for the 55-64 rearends.
    Some T5's from an 4.3 S10 should have a 3.76 first gear, which is just about ideal for most applications.
     
  13. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    Strong enough for what? how much abuse is it going to see?

    I've built both S10 and V8 Camaro NWC T5's, and the only difference with the V8 ones is the diameter of the input shaft, just at the splines only, and the 4th gear is larger in diameter. All the bearings are the same. In my opinion, the V8 version is only marginally stronger than the S10 version.

    As everybody has basically said before, more than about 250 hp and it won't be a question of IF, but WHEN you will break it. Doesn't matter which T5 you use, its the same story. If you don't abuse it, it can live for a long time. GM never used it behind a 350 for a reason, just the 305 and the typical pony car driver was still capable of breaking it.
    I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, just trying to be practical about what you should expect.
    If you want to impersonate John Force, spend the bucks and get a Tremec or Richmond. They are now making them with overdrive.
    Just my opinion...
     
  14. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    The trans isn't cocked over, it's the bellhousing. If you use any regular bellhousing, you can run the Camaro T5 & it'll be straight up. The mount on the back will still be angled, but if you change to an S10 tailshaft & top-cover, that won't be an issue.

    This is mainly due to a limitation of the stock shifter & the lack of shifter stops. The "overshifting" of the 3rd gear fork causes bending, cracks & excessive wear on the pads - this results in less than perfect meshing of the synchro & dogs. A shifter with positive stops, adjusted correctly, will minimize this inherent weakness.

    The gear ratio has less to do with which engine & more to do with application & year. You cannot tell which gearset you have simply by engine alone. Pre-85 all had 4.03 gearset regardless of engine & Post-86 all had 3.76 gearset regardless of engine. 85-86 had both gearsets. The oddball is the very late model 93-94, some of which had a Ford case pattern & 4.03 WC gearset (very unusual). Consequently, you really need to decode the tag number for the 85-86 trannys.

    The 5.0 Mustang crowd will use the T5 until about 350-400HP, then the T5 simply can't handle it. But as snarl says, above 250, with hard launches & good traction in a heavier car, it will break eventually.

    Most of these links are focused on the flathead conversion, but the info is generally applicable to any T5 conversion:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169265
     
  15. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,109

    scottybaccus
    Member

    I ditched the T5 for a NEW Muncie with OD 4th from Auto Gear. Very pleased with the unit they sent and got it fast. Look 'em up.
     
  16. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    I believe the T-5 was never used behind a 4.3 S10.The 5 speed 4.3 S10 option was delayed until about 1991,the 4.3 option first offered in 89 on S10's. I had a 91,it was the NV3500 5 speed with intergal clutch housing.There where some 85-86 4.3 Astro vans with T-5's,3.76 first gear.
    There's some aftermarket gear makers saying their gear sets can handle 500 hp when installed in a NWC T-5 case,about 1000-1500 bucks.To me, the case seems a little lightweight to handle such power ......................................
     
  17. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member


    Yes, I know. He said it was from an '83, and judging by his description, its got a 4.03 first. If its not, I'll owe you a beer...
     
  18. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member


    Yes, Tony, you're right, my mistake. I had some bad info.

    Apparently, Astro vans used a 3.50 first. Good luck finding one these days. Not many vans with sticks out there.


    I agree, Considering the cost of the upgrade for the T5, you can get a Tremec 3550 that will handle 500-600 lb/ft or torque for around $1900, which would seem to me to be the better way to go. To each there own.
     
  19. Wowcars
    Joined: May 10, 2001
    Posts: 1,027

    Wowcars
    Member

    If you're going to spend $1500-$2000 on a T5, why not shift one more time to a T56 6 speed? I've seen these all over the net for around $1700-$2500. They also hold up better across the board against torque (around 425-450 ft-lbs).
     
  20. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    Snarl? I guess we know each other? The Camaro V-8/S10 hybrid I built for 6 cylinder 37 Chevy truck makes me hold off a little from getting too porky with the shifter
    T-56,a good one.I read on some Chevy sites that they require some modifications to work in older vehicles?
     
  21. cwesleyg
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 5

    cwesleyg
    Member

    Check out the Feb 2008 issue of Hot Rod Magazine. The issue is at home, so I can't give a page number. It is near the back of the mag though. Someone wrote a similar question and they first warn against putting a T5 on a V8, but then go into some brief "how to". They mention that it is designed for lighter duty V6 use.

    Good luck.
     
  22. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    No doubt it is, my point is you can't judge the gear ratio by engine alone in all cases, so it can lead the novice down the wrong path, that's all.

    Yep - I believe it's the "best" NWC gear ratio out there. I've got a good set of Astrovan gears going into a Frankenstein NWC T5 I'm building (GM case, Astrovan gears, Jeep output shaft/tail-housing/topcover).

    1st - 3.50 2nd - 2.14 3rd - 1.39 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.78

    And the T5 was avail behind the 4.3V6 in the Astrovan...the 4cyl van got the 3.76 gearset common to late S10 T5.
     
  23. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Later V8 Camaro/Firebird
     
  24. McKee
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,193

    McKee

    What years?
     
  25. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    86-89 were the years for WC Camaro/Firebird - all have same gearset:

    1st - 2.95 2nd - 1.94 3rd - 1.36 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.73
     
  26. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    hotrod roadster has been running a T-5 behind a 327 in his A highboy for several years without any problems
     
    pecker head likes this.
  27. etboy97
    Joined: Nov 3, 2007
    Posts: 219

    etboy97
    Member

    I have been looking to this option as well for my 30 5w coupe project. There is a great web page called "Ultimate T5 Swap" hosted at the Flat Head Ford V8 site which explains a lot of the questions being asked. Also there is a company called G-Force Transmissions that can beef up your T5 or will sell you the parts to do it (g-forcetransmissions.com).
     
  28. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member


    What is the camshaft profile?
    What is the rearend gear?
    Mech or electric sender?
    Shifter location?
     
  29. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    300hp & 2000lb car - I wouldn't get too wrapped up in gear ratios. The Camaro/Firebird T5 with the 2.95 1st will still pull a lightweight rod like this very well w/300hp - even with a 2.75 rear gear...

    Even if he's not happy with it, it'd be much, much easier (and likely cheaper) to change a 9" pumpkin than to swap in Ford WC 3.35 gearset...
     
  30. twobav8
    Joined: Aug 2, 2008
    Posts: 2

    twobav8
    Member
    from Houston

    I've been readling the posts here for awhile and figured it was time to write. So I'm building my 89' T5 out of my s10 with the 4 banger and putting it behind a 1967 283. 62 cast iron bellhousing using a hydrolic tbearing for the T5 vs. fork. Stock 283 flywheel and clutch which is 10 spline, but I'm using the jeep 21 tooth input shaft which is 10 spline. Cutting it down to 8 3/4" or so. Of course my truck sports a 4.56 with 32" tires so the 4.03 gear cluster is desireable, but I am changing the O.D. gear from a 51T/25T to a 61T/25T for the .72 5th ratio (61T/23T will give a .66). The 283 is a 195HP at about 230 to 260 ft. torque... ish of course. As with anything, if you abuse it... it will break. Lord know's I've done several 5K dumps when it was a 4banger and would burn the 32's till I ran out of RPM and chirped my way into 2nd... But spinning the tires doesn't break things. It's when you hook up. I sport a light S10 with a way heavy front end now. I'm guessing like anything the total application is what you have to look at. Not just part of it. I kept the T5 as it came in the truck, fit's the truck and works the speedo, and I'm not building a hot rod. I was told the major reason the 4.03 gear cluster is not very v8 friendly is due to the torque multiplication. The more torque the motor has, the more it is multiplied by the gear set. That's why you see 2.95 (?) for the v8's and the brief 3.35(?) for the bigger v6's. Don't quite me on the numbers, consider them ISH... Anyway, that's my story. So damn the torpedo's... full speed ahead... Oh yea, and it's a q-jet 283 now vs. 2bbl... but that's another story...
     

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