The Jalopy Journal

67Imp.Wagon · 10-03-2003, 05:09 PM

Anybody have one and do you like it.

Ran into a guy that wants to get rid of one with a TH400. Motor has about 130K on it and never been rebuilt. Runs pretty smooth. Does'nt leak at all.

I'm broke as usual but its not going anywhere right now and the more I thought about it the more I wanted it.

It seems that Tri power setups are pretty available for them on Ebay and that alot of GTO's came with the 3-2 setup.

I've never had anything that is Pontiac powered so I thought I'd get the skinny on them here.Expesive to rebuild or equivelant to SBC?

Let the opinions begin.

Fat Hack · 10-03-2003, 05:18 PM

It'll cost a little more to go through the Poncho mill than it would to do a 350 Chevy....but it's not too bad. About on par with a 351 Windsor Ford or a 360 Mopar (cost wise).

The tri-power set ups work GREAT on these engines, and look cool besides. If you can swing the cost, go that route with your 389!

Since the engine runs great now and doesn't leak, I'd be tempted to rinse it off and drop it in as it sits! Pontiac V8s are reliable as can be and contribute a certain "cool factor" to a rod project!

fatassbuick · 10-03-2003, 05:19 PM

What year is it? I have a '71 400, essentially a 389 with an overbore, and I like the hell out of it. It's got tons of torque, a unique look, and reliability. You'll probably start out with more hp and torque than any stock SBC around, and even more than a lot of them that have had some work done to them.

As far as rebuilding, I think it's probably gonna be more than a sbc, but everything is. I had a kit that I paid $385 for at one time, but sold it because this engine ran so well.

If it's a rpe-'65, you're in luck as far as a tri power goes, otherwise get ready to spend some big cashola.

The Fidgiter · 10-03-2003, 05:28 PM

My dad built a 455 pontiac for his '57 Chevy. You probably know this, but if not, all Pontiac V-8 engines are the exact same size outside. Small block stuff fits on big block stuff. I also picked up the following: the rear main seal is rope and leaks often, but there is a (I believe) Ford seal that fits perfectly. Also, another trick: The water neck between heads isn't crucial to the intake manifold. So, you could theoretically cut the water neck off, bolt it to the engine, then have interchangeable 4-barrel and tri-power setups.

Also...you gonna use that transmission? If not, I sure could use it.

SwitchBlade327 · 10-03-2003, 05:52 PM

My 60 poncho has a 389 in it, and besides having a clogged breather hose it runs great, chirps the tires on the boat when it drops into that second gear. I looked for a tri-power setup, but didn't find any cept for the later 60's models. How much do they usually run?

SwitchBlade327 · 10-03-2003, 06:00 PM

check this out, says it comes with a tripower intake

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615

if it doesn't go up too much could be a good deal considering what you'd probaly have to pay for an intake alone.

Fat Hack · 10-03-2003, 06:03 PM

Check this deal out...three cars...and the two door is good runner with a 389 tri-power!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2435066663

It'd make a cool early 60s kustom project!

fatassbuick · 10-03-2003, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the rear main seal is rope and leaks often, but there is a (I believe) Ford seal that fits perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, can you find out what seal this is?

67Imp.Wagon · 10-03-2003, 06:51 PM

The guy wants $450 for motor and trans.Its out of a 66 Bonneville wagon. I think He'll come off that.Was gonna maybe use it for the model A. Not really planning on using the trans since a Hot Rod is suppose to have 3 pedals but who knows what will be in the car if it actually ever hits the road.

Fat Hack, I was just thinking that. Run it as is till it needs fixin.

**flamedabone** · 10-03-2003, 07:44 PM

Oh yea! Go get that sumbitch. You will love the hell out of it. Gobs of torque, looks cool and sound bitchn.

I've got a mild 400 in my A sedan and the only street car to beat it (by 2 tenths) at the HAMB Drags was Ryans fire breathing SB Chevvie. (and I'll get him next year...)

475 bucks is alot of cabbage, but well worth it.

PLUS, It's not a small block Chevvie.

PS. Manual trannys are fun for about 15 minutes...

Holler if you need any Poncho help. -Abone.

fatassbuick · 10-03-2003, 07:46 PM

You may reconsider your three pedal rule when you discover the prices of the shit between the engine and tranny on a Pontiac.

**G V Gordon** · 10-03-2003, 07:55 PM

One thing to be aware of is that the pre '65 motors only fit Pontiac trannies. The old "slim jim" hydros are not the best transmission GM ever built, having said that the one in my 63 Grand Prix has been working fine for the two years I have had it. An adapter is available for the later Turbo 350\400 but it is pricey. That will be the route I take if mine goes south however. Hope that helps. Everything said before about torque etc. is true.

The Fidgiter · 10-03-2003, 08:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One thing to be aware of is that the pre '65 motors only fit Pontiac trannies

[/ QUOTE ]

Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiacs, have the same transmission bolt patterns. Chevrolets are different. It doesn't end in '65, it's true up untill the Chevy motor was used as the corporate engine (into the eighties,) the transmissions were different.

67Imp.Wagon · 10-03-2003, 08:13 PM

I've got a 283 SBC I was gonna use and I've estimated close to $1,000 after all parts and machine work are done.

The guy that I know that has it is a Pontiac die hard and he said its pretty tough to wear out the bottom ends of theses motors. He has another 66 with a 455 in it and he just got this car to get some of the parts off it. I'm gonna keep in touch with him on this.

BARNETT · 10-03-2003, 08:41 PM

My old '60 Catalina had a 389...that motor was GREAT! Like everyone else is saying, it has tons-o-torque!! Moved that big ol' 60 like it was nothin'. The only down side was the jet-a-way trans. Someday I would like to have another 389 for a hot rod motor...someday.

cadlights · 10-03-2003, 10:49 PM

Had me a 1965 GTO 389 tri carbs, fastest car I ever had
without working on it. Before that I had a 58 Pontiac
Catalina with a 370 punched to 381, duel 4 brl rochesters
T-10 4 speed, shaffer clutch and pressure plate, duel point
Malory ign and coil with a 4.30 rear end. It turned 14.70's
99 Mph back in 1964. That GTO with the 389 and Muncie 4 speed would kick it's ass bone stock. Do it and let me know how ya like it.
( Lord some times I wish I were 21 again )

fatassbuick · 10-03-2003, 11:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Lord some times I wish I were 21 again

[/ QUOTE ]
Somtimes I wish I would get my head out of my ass and realize I'm not.

draggin'GTO · 10-03-2003, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the rear main seal is rope and leaks often, but there is a (I believe) Ford seal that fits perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, can you find out what seal this is?

[/ QUOTE ]
You can get a viton rear main seal that is made especially for Pontiacs now from BOP Engineering. They make them to fit the small journal (3" main) 326, 389 and 400 engines as well as the large journal (3.25" main) 421, 428 and 455 engines.

Pontiac IS torque, I drive a Tri-Power 455-powered '64 Tempest daily. It cranks out high 13s in the 1/4 mile with only 8.2:1 compression and a 2.56 one-legger rear end.

www.bopengineering.com

----- Bart -----

**Rocky** · 10-04-2003, 12:24 AM

The ford seal in question was originally for a 460 ford. I used one on the last 389 I built. I put together a '60, 389 for my 56 safari and ended up selling the car [for 4 times what I paid for it] to a restorer and the engine went to my best buddy to go in his 56 Poncho 2 door. He sold his 56 tudor sedan to another restorer and still has the un-tried engine on a stand. I didn't care much for the seal installation procedure, which called for a 1/4" bead of black silicone to take up space where the ford seal was too skinny. Maybe we'll see how good it seals some day. I'll prolly end up with the damn thing anyway..............now that he's bought a 4 speed bellhousing and super T-10 for it.
I LOVE 389 Pontiacs! I've put about 3 of 'em in various 56-57 Pontiacs with either the early slant-pan hydro or 4 speed manual trannys. Rhoades lifters help cure a lifter-pump-up problem the early ones had and ARP rod bolts on early forged rods help the rod problem some of 'em had. The problems come when guys forget they're not small block chevys and they try to rev 'em over 5500 Rpm. Oh, they'll do it...........for awhile.

**Rocky** · 10-04-2003, 12:25 AM

This photo was scarfed off the internet....not one of my cars or anybody I know. I just liked the image.

10-03-2003, 05:09 PM	#1
67Imp.Wagon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Texas. USA Posts: 1,186	Pontiac 389 opinions please Anybody have one and do you like it. Ran into a guy that wants to get rid of one with a TH400. Motor has about 130K on it and never been rebuilt. Runs pretty smooth. Does'nt leak at all. I'm broke as usual but its not going anywhere right now and the more I thought about it the more I wanted it. It seems that Tri power setups are pretty available for them on Ebay and that alot of GTO's came with the 3-2 setup. I've never had anything that is Pontiac powered so I thought I'd get the skinny on them here.Expesive to rebuild or equivelant to SBC? Let the opinions begin.

10-03-2003, 05:18 PM	#2
Fat Hack Old School HAMBer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Detroit Posts: 7,648	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please It'll cost a little more to go through the Poncho mill than it would to do a 350 Chevy....but it's not too bad. About on par with a 351 Windsor Ford or a 360 Mopar (cost wise). The tri-power set ups work GREAT on these engines, and look cool besides. If you can swing the cost, go that route with your 389! Since the engine runs great now and doesn't leak, I'd be tempted to rinse it off and drop it in as it sits! Pontiac V8s are reliable as can be and contribute a certain "cool factor" to a rod project!

10-03-2003, 05:19 PM	#3
fatassbuick Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Western Kentucky Posts: 987	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please What year is it? I have a '71 400, essentially a 389 with an overbore, and I like the hell out of it. It's got tons of torque, a unique look, and reliability. You'll probably start out with more hp and torque than any stock SBC around, and even more than a lot of them that have had some work done to them. As far as rebuilding, I think it's probably gonna be more than a sbc, but everything is. I had a kit that I paid $385 for at one time, but sold it because this engine ran so well. If it's a rpe-'65, you're in luck as far as a tri power goes, otherwise get ready to spend some big cashola.

10-03-2003, 05:28 PM	#4
The Fidgiter Old School HAMBer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas. Posts: 5,570	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please My dad built a 455 pontiac for his '57 Chevy. You probably know this, but if not, all Pontiac V-8 engines are the exact same size outside. Small block stuff fits on big block stuff. I also picked up the following: the rear main seal is rope and leaks often, but there is a (I believe) Ford seal that fits perfectly. Also, another trick: The water neck between heads isn't crucial to the intake manifold. So, you could theoretically cut the water neck off, bolt it to the engine, then have interchangeable 4-barrel and tri-power setups. Also...you gonna use that transmission? If not, I sure could use it.

10-03-2003, 05:52 PM	#5
SwitchBlade327 Old School HAMBer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,912	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please My 60 poncho has a 389 in it, and besides having a clogged breather hose it runs great, chirps the tires on the boat when it drops into that second gear. I looked for a tri-power setup, but didn't find any cept for the later 60's models. How much do they usually run?

10-03-2003, 06:00 PM	#6
SwitchBlade327 Old School HAMBer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,912	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please check this out, says it comes with a tripower intake http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615 if it doesn't go up too much could be a good deal considering what you'd probaly have to pay for an intake alone.

10-03-2003, 06:03 PM	#7
Fat Hack Old School HAMBer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Detroit Posts: 7,648	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please Check this deal out...three cars...and the two door is good runner with a 389 tri-power! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2435066663 It'd make a cool early 60s kustom project!

10-03-2003, 06:33 PM	#8
fatassbuick Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Western Kentucky Posts: 987	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please [ QUOTE ] the rear main seal is rope and leaks often, but there is a (I believe) Ford seal that fits perfectly. [/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, can you find out what seal this is?

10-03-2003, 06:51 PM	#9
67Imp.Wagon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Texas. USA Posts: 1,186	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please The guy wants $450 for motor and trans.Its out of a 66 Bonneville wagon. I think He'll come off that.Was gonna maybe use it for the model A. Not really planning on using the trans since a Hot Rod is suppose to have 3 pedals but who knows what will be in the car if it actually ever hits the road. Fat Hack, I was just thinking that. Run it as is till it needs fixin.

10-03-2003, 07:44 PM	#10
flamedabone Alliance Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Drinkin' beer and building hot rods in S. Carolina. Posts: 2,433	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please Oh yea! Go get that sumbitch. You will love the hell out of it. Gobs of torque, looks cool and sound bitchn. I've got a mild 400 in my A sedan and the only street car to beat it (by 2 tenths) at the HAMB Drags was Ryans fire breathing SB Chevvie. (and I'll get him next year...) 475 bucks is alot of cabbage, but well worth it. PLUS, It's not a small block Chevvie. PS. Manual trannys are fun for about 15 minutes... Holler if you need any Poncho help. -Abone.

10-03-2003, 07:46 PM	#11
fatassbuick Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Western Kentucky Posts: 987	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please You may reconsider your three pedal rule when you discover the prices of the shit between the engine and tranny on a Pontiac.

10-03-2003, 07:55 PM	#12
G V Gordon Alliance Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Enid OK Posts: 4,223	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please One thing to be aware of is that the pre '65 motors only fit Pontiac trannies. The old "slim jim" hydros are not the best transmission GM ever built, having said that the one in my 63 Grand Prix has been working fine for the two years I have had it. An adapter is available for the later Turbo 350\400 but it is pricey. That will be the route I take if mine goes south however. Hope that helps. Everything said before about torque etc. is true.

10-03-2003, 08:02 PM	#13
The Fidgiter Old School HAMBer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Texas. Posts: 5,570	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please [ QUOTE ] One thing to be aware of is that the pre '65 motors only fit Pontiac trannies [/ QUOTE ] Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiacs, have the same transmission bolt patterns. Chevrolets are different. It doesn't end in '65, it's true up untill the Chevy motor was used as the corporate engine (into the eighties,) the transmissions were different.

10-03-2003, 08:13 PM	#14
67Imp.Wagon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Texas. USA Posts: 1,186	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please I've got a 283 SBC I was gonna use and I've estimated close to $1,000 after all parts and machine work are done. The guy that I know that has it is a Pontiac die hard and he said its pretty tough to wear out the bottom ends of theses motors. He has another 66 with a 455 in it and he just got this car to get some of the parts off it. I'm gonna keep in touch with him on this.

10-03-2003, 08:41 PM	#15
BARNETT Old School HAMBer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Antonio, Texas...1493.1 miles south of DETROIT Posts: 3,297	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please My old '60 Catalina had a 389...that motor was GREAT! Like everyone else is saying, it has tons-o-torque!! Moved that big ol' 60 like it was nothin'. The only down side was the jet-a-way trans. Someday I would like to have another 389 for a hot rod motor...someday.

10-03-2003, 10:49 PM	#16
cadlights Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hooper, Ut Posts: 855	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please Had me a 1965 GTO 389 tri carbs, fastest car I ever had without working on it. Before that I had a 58 Pontiac Catalina with a 370 punched to 381, duel 4 brl rochesters T-10 4 speed, shaffer clutch and pressure plate, duel point Malory ign and coil with a 4.30 rear end. It turned 14.70's 99 Mph back in 1964. That GTO with the 389 and Muncie 4 speed would kick it's ass bone stock. Do it and let me know how ya like it. ( Lord some times I wish I were 21 again )

10-03-2003, 11:04 PM	#17
fatassbuick Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Western Kentucky Posts: 987	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please [ QUOTE ] Lord some times I wish I were 21 again [/ QUOTE ] Somtimes I wish I would get my head out of my ass and realize I'm not.

10-03-2003, 11:31 PM	#18
draggin'GTO Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 1,242	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] the rear main seal is rope and leaks often, but there is a (I believe) Ford seal that fits perfectly. [/ QUOTE ]Hmmm, can you find out what seal this is? [/ QUOTE ] You can get a viton rear main seal that is made especially for Pontiacs now from BOP Engineering. They make them to fit the small journal (3" main) 326, 389 and 400 engines as well as the large journal (3.25" main) 421, 428 and 455 engines. Pontiac IS torque, I drive a Tri-Power 455-powered '64 Tempest daily. It cranks out high 13s in the 1/4 mile with only 8.2:1 compression and a 2.56 one-legger rear end. www.bopengineering.com ----- Bart -----

10-04-2003, 12:24 AM	#19
Rocky Classified Editor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Bellevue, Nebraska...suburb of Omaha Posts: 8,833	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please The ford seal in question was originally for a 460 ford. I used one on the last 389 I built. I put together a '60, 389 for my 56 safari and ended up selling the car [for 4 times what I paid for it] to a restorer and the engine went to my best buddy to go in his 56 Poncho 2 door. He sold his 56 tudor sedan to another restorer and still has the un-tried engine on a stand. I didn't care much for the seal installation procedure, which called for a 1/4" bead of black silicone to take up space where the ford seal was too skinny. Maybe we'll see how good it seals some day. I'll prolly end up with the damn thing anyway..............now that he's bought a 4 speed bellhousing and super T-10 for it. I LOVE 389 Pontiacs! I've put about 3 of 'em in various 56-57 Pontiacs with either the early slant-pan hydro or 4 speed manual trannys. Rhoades lifters help cure a lifter-pump-up problem the early ones had and ARP rod bolts on early forged rods help the rod problem some of 'em had. The problems come when guys forget they're not small block chevys and they try to rev 'em over 5500 Rpm. Oh, they'll do it...........for awhile. Attached Thumbnails

10-04-2003, 12:25 AM	#20
Rocky Classified Editor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Bellevue, Nebraska...suburb of Omaha Posts: 8,833	Re: Pontiac 389 opinions please This photo was scarfed off the internet....not one of my cars or anybody I know. I just liked the image.

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