Let's Talk Cyclecars

[Bigcheese327]

Driving home from school today, listening to NPR, I hear talk about the SmartCar coming to the U.S. in January. Which gets me to thinking about small cars. Which gets me to thinking about the Fiat 500 I see in the parking lot every now and then and how I fantasize about putting a Hayabusa engine in one. Which further leads to me thinking about motorcycle engines in four-wheeled contraptions in general.

How about one of these:



Stuffed into one of these?



What have you got?

-Dave

[Bigcheese327]

I know the one you're talking about. It had a wooden boattail, didn't it? I have pictures saved on my laptop. I didn't realize it had been finished.

For some reason, the four-wheeled variety appeals to me more, although I'm not entirely sure how you'd do a differential from a chain drive. Harley-Davidson evidently had it figured out with the Servicar, however:



Kinda looks like a Ford banjo, doesn't it?

-Dave

[Stroked]

This is the thread that made me want to build one: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=201625






- Matt

[Bigcheese327]

Having gotten your link to work...

I like the Velorex. Especially the fabric bodywork. Looks more practical for inclement weather than my Dudley Bug, too.

-Dave

[cosmo]

Interesting idea. There have been more than a few folks who've swapped a BMW twin into a Citroën 2CV, bringing it up from 425 or 602cc to 1000cc or more.
As to the Dudley Bug, it already has a twin cylinder motorcycle-type engine in it. Specs are scarce, but likely a Spacke.
Cosmo

[metalshapes]

Originally Posted by TINGLER

I've often fantasized about building a replica of a Velorex.

This one is on the Auction site right now...

[skipstitch]

I did a little what if about a bike car a few years ago.... It's always in the back of my mind.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...+crotch+rocket

[tjm73]

There's a company that makes a transmission for HD's (and other motorcycles) that includes a reverse gear and allows connection to a regular automotive axle. Pricey at around $1500 but available.

[Bigcheese327]

That is the coolest! A bit more engine than I had envisioned, but the hardwood framerails are most inspirational.

-Dave

[metalshapes]

A couple of random pics...

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by cosmo

As to the Dudley Bug, it already has a twin cylinder motorcycle-type engine in it. Specs are scarce, but likely a Spacke.
Cosmo

Hmm...



...the Spacke isn't quite as gutsy looking as the Knuck, but not bad. Still, the odds of finding a Dudley to hot rod seem slim.

What are these GN cars mentioned in the thread with the JAP V8 cyclecar? I saw them referenced in November's banger meeting as well. They're kinda cool. Doesn't look like they use a differential at all, though.

-Dave

[Mercmad]

did you Smart? did you say hyabusa? ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQIizRp9ck

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by Mercmad

did you Smart? did you say hyabusa? ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQIizRp9ck

hahaha, that's crazy. I'll bet he doesn't get quite the original 40mpg anymore. But the upshot is that he can still park perpendicular to the curb.

-Dave

[Mercmad]

Issetta + Hayabusa....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgxM...eature=related

[The37Kid]

This is the Pop Dryer built Catfish, powered by a Harley Knucklehead, it had a lot of great drivers. One an East Coast Chanpionship in the late 1930's with Bill Schindler driving. NEVER sell a racecar before you do the research on it!!!!!!!!! I sold it to a friend in the mid 1970's for $100.00 before I knew what it was.

[The37Kid]

This is a 1915 Baby Cup Racer, one of a pack of 12-15 Harley Twin powered cars. They toured the USA and Japan all with different grills to represent big cars of the era.

[safariknut]

Here's a slightly different one powered by a 750 HondaMatic.The body was a kit built awhile back(don't recall the name).It was 'glass formed over wood.There was a large bulkhead in back where the bike bolted on.You removed the front fork and attached the whole bike to the bulkhead.It was two passenger and the top was hinged to allow entry.There was a provision for reversing but it was a bit complicated.It involved putting the bike in neutral and then pulling a lever that worked a cable that led back to a 12v cycle starter motor with a rubber donut attached to the drive end.This lowered the donut against the rear tire.You then switched on the motor and it(supposedly)turned the tire to allow you to back up.Not having any rearward vision didn't help matters either.But this thing was built over 20 years ago.sort of looks like a Bricklin in front.A friend of mine owned it for awhile but (wisely)moved on to other more practical things.

[BAD ROD]

The Hot Rod Hawg had my intrest a couple of years ago.

http://www.rbimovies.nl/media/amt/Mo...mv?rnd=5038383

Some people have turned those legend cars street legal.

[AnimalAin]

A street version of a Legends car would kick ass. Not sure it would be entirely impractical, either.

[Mercmad]

Morgans are the ones I like!,Pure simplicity with huge performance from really ancient J.A.P engines.
http://www.morgan3w.de/technic/technic.htm
heres one in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NA40...eature=related

[BAD ROD]

Here is a Legends car....

[daddylama]

damnit. damnit. damnit.

something told me i shouldn't click on this topic... but "cyclecars" sparked my curiosity. part way through the first page, i realize i'm saying to myself "hmm, i've got an axle like that... i've got that weird grille in the basement that would work... oh, i totally know where there's a cowl that would do..."

i've got too many projects as it is. and now i find myself wanting another one

wait... it gets worse (better?). just realized the narrow track of a 20s lookin' racer would fit in the basement, thus working around the "shop is too full with other stuff".... the basement is nearly EMPTY!

wife's gonna kill me when she sees a frame sitting down there...

[Bigcheese327]

I'm "lucky" Daddylama, my basement floods, so there's never a temptation to put things down there...

-Dave

[hibbyjr53]

A few years ago there was a company I checked into from the U.K. that produced three wheelers based on the old Morgans.
The JZR (John Ziemba Restorations) used Honda CX 500/650, Moto Guzzi, even H.D. power trains. Commonly they are registered as motorcycles with the doner bikes title. The quality of the kit looked high in the video I purchased.
The U.S. distributor is Bill Todd out of Texas. I believe they are still available for around 5-6K. Google it for plenty of info.

[daddylama]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

I'm "lucky" Daddylama, my basement floods, so there's never a temptation to put things down there...

-Dave

just had 5 days of constant mild rain (and it'll be followed by a couple more months of that)... basement is partially flooded at the moment.

"honey, what are you doing?"
-fixin' the basement leak!
"sounds like you're grinding!"
-grinding the leak!
"and the welding?"
-welding the leak!

i reckon it'll not go as smoothly as that, but it's what i'm hoping for.


there's an FJ1200 with mangled forks for sale, locally... and a KZ1000 that looks near abandoned...
ok, not traditional by any means... but something that looks along the lines of a 20s dirt track car with lights, the air-cooled cycle motor under the bonnie... it'd make a fun driver that might be cheap on the gas...
or another endless project, along side all the other endless projects i've got

[tjm73]

Originally Posted by hibbyjr53

A few years ago there was a company I checked into from the U.K. that produced three wheelers based on the old Morgans.
The JZR (John Ziemba Restorations) used Honda CX 500/650, Moto Guzzi, even H.D. power trains. Commonly they are registered as motorcycles with the doner bikes title. The quality of the kit looked high in the video I purchased.
The U.S. distributor is Bill Todd out of Texas. I believe they are still available for around 5-6K. Google it for plenty of info.

Out of curiosity I did a little google search...found this info...

http://www.freewebs.com/jzrusa/

[tjm73]

This thread has a cool boat-tailed 3 wheeled job. I think its the one mentioned in this thread too.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...7392&showall=1

There is a rendering in that thread that is pretty friggin' cool

[mustangsix]

Almost a cyclecar, lots of Locost's have been built with bike engines. Wicked, scary fast...... Most of them retain the bike transmission and have a coupler that hooks to a conventional driveshaft and rearend, but a few are chaindrive. Lots of video on u-tube.

[the-rodster]

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by tjm73

This thread has a cool boat-tailed 3 wheeled job. I think its the one mentioned in this thread too.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...7392&showall=1

There is a rendering in that thread that is pretty friggin' cool

That's the thread that got me thinking about the four-wheeled cyclecars. I first saw an illustration of the Dudley Bug years ago in a rather academic book on auto styling called Chrome Dreams and filed it away.

I see that S&S is now offering a complete dual-carb 71ci Panhead for somewhere around $8K. They have a Knuck in the works - I know the early Harley overheads aren't known for their tremendous fuel economy, but I'll bet you'd still do pretty good with one of these.

Titling might be an issue, though.

"Yes officer, it's a 1914 Dudley Bug but with a '36 Harley engine and '35 Ford wheels..."

-Dave

[Bigcheese327]

It does kinda look like someone riding an ATV backward. It's definitely not what I was thinking when I said "cyclecar."

-Dave

[Rootie Kazoootie]

Re: Let's Talk Cyclecars

[jonnycola]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

Hmm...



...the Spacke isn't quite as gutsy looking as the Knuck, but not bad. Still, the odds of finding a Dudley to hot rod seem slim.

What are these GN cars mentioned in the thread with the JAP V8 cyclecar? I saw them referenced in November's banger meeting as well. They're kinda cool. Doesn't look like they use a differential at all, though.

-Dave

I've got a Spacke powered Pedersen.... I'll take some pictures tonight.

[tjm73]

If money were no object, this company Zipper Performance makes 107" inch and even 117" TC88 HD engine kits. The 107" makes 120 hp and 120 ft-lbs.

http://www.zippersperformance.com/ca...=863&prod=1556

But my favorite is their 124" 130hp, 150 ft-lb kit......

http://www.zippersperformance.com/ca...=864&prod=2134

[noboD]

Originally Posted by metalshapes

This one is on the Auction site right now...

Metalshapes, I saw that. Please buy it so I don't have to bid!! It's just ugly enough to be cute.

[gasit]

[Cris]

Surprised nobody has posted this link yet:

http://www.stevproj.com/Carz/CycleKart.html

I've been staring at it for years, a lot of cool ideas.

[McKee]

This one's frighteningly quick!

[Bigcheese327]

Wow, apparently this is the "worst thread ever." I always figured if I got that kind of feedback it would be for an alternative energy thread! Oh well.

-Dave

[Zerk]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

Wow, apparently this is the "worst thread ever." ...
-Dave

Horseshit. This is a GREAT thread if you can manage to unlimber your outlook and appreciate something different.

You've posted more than your fair share of awesome threads on the HAMB. If anyone isn't into the concept of cyclecars there is always something else to see here, no need for them to be a jackass about it.

[SinisterCustom]

Hahaha...cyclecars....
I just sold a VW bug to a guy that is going to use the front end for building one......

[Fiorano]

The old Morgans and the Baby Cup with the White tires are great

JZR, makes a great trike cycle car
so does BRA... and the Triking

i should build one.. if i had more money and time now

[Jobe]

There is a couple outside of Austin that has one of these, extremely cool the first time I saw it at a show. Runs and drives...

[noboD]

Last time I read Pa.s inspection law it CLEARLY said no Motorcycle parts on cars and no car parts on Motorcycles. Not sure how to get away with building one. But real cyclecars like a Neracar i could get interested in. Morgans are nice too.

[leon renaud]

Haynes Publishing "the Haynes Manual People "publishes a Haynes Tech Book on building a 3 wheel cycle car but as far as I know it is only being sold overseas.I have tried every Haynes dealer I know and they can't find a listing here in the US.I have contacted Haynes International and asked about buying books offered outside the US but they have not answered my Email that was more than a month ago!kind of Ironic since almost all the Haynes books are published here in the US! at least The ones for English speaking countries.
Anyone on here a dealer for them There are several books I'd like to buy but really don't want to pay double+ tyhe price of a book because it has to come from some other country.I bet they could sell a large volume of books here on the HAMB .If anyone here can help PM me with details

[UK Comet]

Someone's always gotta go too far........

[Zerk]

I've been on Google looking for pics/info on the Nardi, a small, fast sportscar with BMW 750 motor, made in the early '50s. Result: One big zero. It's like the Earth swallowed the damn things.

I bet Bluto's got pics...

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by TINGLER

I wonder if that Fiero is related to this one??

[scootermcrad]

There really is some cool stuff in this thread! I think it would be bitchin' to build a small traditional styled single seat racer with a little V-twin or or something. I like the J.A.P. motors. Would probably have to find something like that...

Cool thread! BTTT

[scootermcrad]

This CycleKart thing is rad!

[Relic Stew]

I used to want a Messerschmidt KR200

[noboD]

Originally Posted by UK Comet

Someone's always gotta go too far........

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ailcopy6ba.jpg No this is too far.

[damnfingers]

The Morgan Trikes were always my favorites...

[powerwagonmaniac1]

NoboD has seen this one before.

When my wife and I got married we made a special trip to Reno, Nevada to see this machine...



a 1920 Briggs and Stratton Flyer. My dad worked for Bill Harrah back in the 1960's and he told me about the Flyer. Melissa ( my wife) encouraged me to be build one and this is how it turned out...


The first picture above is what we built our 1920 C W Flyer from (we knew the size of the wheels so we figured a scale and used that to scale it to full size). Pretty darn close to the original. Everything on it is hand built at our shop. This was my first, I guess you might say, Hot Rod project.
The Briggs and Stratton Flyer was originally built by A.O. Smith & Co. (believe it or not they are still in business making motors for water heaters and HVAC systems) as early as 1914-15. The concept was to promote the motorwheel, which was intended to power a bicycle (Merkle and Wall autowheel designed and started producing motorwheels in England as early as 1908 for bicycles)and ended up being marketed as cheap transportation for college students. Briggs purchased the rights for the Flyer and produced the odd ball 5 wheeled machines from 1918-25. In 1925 they sold the rights to a company called Auto Red Bug and they redesigned them for electric power. Auto Red Bug built their electric flyers through the first part of depression till the company went bankrupt in 1933 and sold the production rights to Indian Motorcycles who built them as amusement park rides in 1933 and then ceased production for lack of sales.


The Briggs & Stratton Flyer was cheap transportation (could be purchased for $125.00) very economical to run (80 miles to 1/2 gallon of gasoline) simple to work on (2 HP motor, direct drive off the camshaft in the motor, and no gears and no reverse you just lifted the wheel off the ground using the hand lever in front of the seat. To go, with the motor running you then push the lever forward which drops the motorwheel on the ground and give it throttle your nuteral is when the hand lever is pulled back which lifts the motorwheel off the ground, your motor is always running) and quite fast (between 20 to 25 mph).


This year's summer project was to switch ours from friction drive to chain drive. We are using a 5 Hp Wisconsin industrial motor and with friction drive it would eat the tires up so fast that it was not economical to run through the show season. Darned thing ended up sitting around our shop way too much for my liking!! We are not done with it, but getting close. With this gearing we can do almost 30 -35 mph...and with the 3/4 gallon tank we can almost go 70 miles on one tank of fuel. I had a smaller gear (80 tooth) on the wheel side before switching to the larger gear, shown in the picture above (now 112 tooth, There is a 15 tooth gear on the engine side) and I was followed down our rural road by a friend of mine in his pickup truck at almost 45 mph!!


I am looking for an actual A.O. Smith Motorwheel or Briggs and Stratton version if anyone knows of one available. I have a complete set of plans from A. O. Smith dated to 1918 to build an original. Which I hope to do some day. I am also looking for the electric drive-train details for the Red Bug as I would like to build one of them too. Any info would be awesome!

Thanks guys,
Chris Becker

[xlr8]

Instead of the CYCLE cars I was thinking more of a cycle-POWERED hot rod, say a gold wing flat six in a T-bucket. Could be pretty cool and definitely different.

[Bigcheese327]

It's weird to say, but I almost feel like a T is "too much" car for the motorcycle engines. Although perhaps not when cut down to "fighting weight." My thinking when I started this post was something exactly like the Dudley Bug. An extremely lightweight, spindly styled, four wheeler with a motorcycle engine and possibly chain drive.

Also, ironically, the T was what really killed the cyclecar in this country. It was a lot more car for not much more money. The Citroen 5CV and Austin 7 did the same thing overseas.

-Dave

[TINGLER]

That Briggs and Stratton Flyer replica rules!
That post made this whole thread worth viewing I think!

My hat is off to you....that is really cool.

[UKAde]

This is my cyclecar been building it for a couple of years it is a chater lea chassis from aroun 1909 and a blackburne tomtit aircraft engine

http://rides.webshots.com/album/556627612QlGIQC

[UKAde]

here is the link to a pic
http://image50.webshots.com/750/3/9/...3WEkBWQ_fs.jpg

[UKAde]

more pic link these pics are from the festival of sloath a cyclecar event in the uk

http://rides.webshots.com/album/565513964cyUCKu

[Von Rigg Fink]

not sure if its been posted or not..(didnt take the time to read)..Liberty is hand building cycle cars with Harley V twin engines on them..very nice looking, and built well..just not cheap from what ive seen.

[Zerk]

Originally Posted by UKAde

This is my cyclecar been building it for a couple of years it is a chater lea chassis from aroun 1909 and a blackburne tomtit aircraft engine

http://rides.webshots.com/album/556627612QlGIQC

If it's this much fun to look at pictures of it, I can't imagine how much fun it is to drive that thing. Must be exhilarating to drive something so light at road speeds. Beautiful job constructing that cyclecar/aero engine special.

[Flipper]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

For some more interesting ideas see :


http://www.lecyclecaristebelge.com/

There are some cool cars burried in the galleries. Thanks.

[scootermcrad]

I forgot about this thread. Love these things...

[blackjack]

Hey Metalshapes - that's my trike there. Does 90mph and returns 50 to 60 mpg on a regular basis. I have driven it all over Europe - it's a stable easy drive. Has a 2CV engine but others have fitted Moto Guzzi engines.

[choptopfatfendertruck]

This is a cyclekart that I have been working on for a couple of years. Just to many other projects ahead of this one.

[Silent_Orchestra]

Cycle cars are sweet!...I've got an idea though....

3 Wheeled V8 Modified...Make it look like a modified roadster, 2 wheels in front with your engine...and 1 nice fat one in back...

My only problem is how do you set up the rear? any ideas? I've had this idea along with many others floatin' around in my head for a while.

I thought you could take the back and set it up on some type of swing arm for suspension... I just don't know how you could get the rear wheel to drive...If I built I would either use a 394...or a Straight 8 Buick...The trans is kind of up in the air.

[HEMI32]

Also check out the November 2008 "motorcycle engined cars" thread (just click HERE).

[Little Wing]

BSA has a nice 3 wheel car and I have seen Knuckles in Morgans ,,neat stuff

[Mr48chev]

These are being built in Seattle. Not inexpensive but they sure are interesting.

http://www.cycle-car.com/index.htm

They catch the spirit of the Morgan three wheelers with an HD flavor.

[kookee]

Why not use a REAL v-twin that is set up for this perfectly? A Moto Guzzi is set up correctly for intake/exhaust and transmission. It is even a shaft drive so that you can forego the chain. There is a gent in Germany that also has a setup so that you can put a small supercharger on it. I know that there is a company making 3-wheeled cars using them and are actually registered to produce production vehicles with registered VIN's in the UK.

It crossed my mind, as I am restoring a 72 Eldorado I have owned since I was 13..

[gnichols]

If you search for motorcycle engined cars on the web, you will find a lot. Even some previous threads on the HAMB. Busa Smart cars are already out. Styer Puch Fiat 500s KILL in autocrosses (only seen them in Europe). I'd opt for a Busa in a single seat speedster, myself. Gary

[bumpybigblok]

Cyclecars could be cool. Here's a few I found.

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by Von Rigg Fink

not sure if its been posted or not..(didnt take the time to read)..Liberty is hand building cycle cars with Harley V twin engines on them..very nice looking, and built well..just not cheap from what ive seen.

Dang those are cool.

-Dave

[Von Rigg Fink]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

Dang those are cool.

-Dave

i thought so too..wouldnt mind having one to tool around in the city with..very true to the traditional build of these types of fun rides in my opinion..
I have owned one of their sidecars for my harley when my daughter was a little girl..it was very well built and it held its value..sold it to a guy in Mass. for about 1800 bucks less than what I paid for it, and that was his offer..he knew how they were built, and mine had very few miles on it and was taken very good care of..

although..I see the price for the ACE (their name for it) is around 48 thousanda bit steep..i think i could probably get 2 nice Model A's for that kinda change eh?

[jc62]

Originally Posted by Mercmad

did you Smart? did you say hyabusa? ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQIizRp9ck

That one was made in Portugal !!

[Katzenjammer]

I'm surprised that nobody found the Pembletons yet:

http://www.pembleton.co.uk/

Kit car, the first one designed AND built in 4 weeks by Phil Gregory, who's an engineer and a top motorbike designer/racer in the UK. He and his spouse were going on holiday to Ireland and his spouse happened to notice that 3-wheelers travel free on the ferry. So she said why don't you do us up one, and he did exactly that--in 4 weeks!

[nitrohonkey]

Very cool post!!! Thankyou

[ehdubya]

Some was asking about GN, I found these in an amazing collection on flickr. I only got to the fourth page and he deleted the lot while I was looking I had to triple check.

[Katzenjammer]

That strange looking Morgan in the third photo over is very interesting. I wish I could track down technical details on the Morgan 3-wheeler frames. I know they were made of lugged tubing, and it must have been just gaspipe because that's what the state of the art was. But how did he get gaspipe to take the kinds of strain his cyclecars routinely endured?

[fur biscuit]

Originally Posted by Katzenjammer

That strange looking Morgan in the third photo over is very interesting. I wish I could track down technical details on the Morgan 3-wheeler frames. I know they were made of lugged tubing, and it must have been just gaspipe because that's what the state of the art was. But how did he get gaspipe to take the kinds of strain his cyclecars routinely endured?

the loads shouldn't be that great (compared to a traditional 4 wheel) as the wieght is distinctly on the centerline (or slightly infront of) the front wheels and the rear end should both tilt and slide due and slide. Also there is a very limited amount of tire patch to grab the ground anyways.

[fur biscuit]

Originally Posted by gnichols

opt for a Busa in a single seat speedster, myself. Gary

A turbo'd 'busa mill in a mini would fun.

[Katzenjammer]

Originally Posted by fur biscuit

the loads shouldn't be that great (compared to a traditional 4 wheel) as the wieght is distinctly on the centerline (or slightly infront of) the front wheels and the rear end should both tilt and slide due and slide. Also there is a very limited amount of tire patch to grab the ground anyways.

Do you really think that was the weight distribution? I can't see how the engine and cooling system could have outweighed an adult male driver and the drive train. Could you explain?

[Streetwerkz]

on my to do list, I have a Bussa motor waiting for me to build a reverse trike, or cycle car around, after a few other projects

[Pauly da mick]

Originally Posted by fur biscuit

A turbo'd 'busa mill in a mini would fun.

Indeed it is!! Some nut cases have even used TWO 'busa motors..
http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/index.htm

What about a Wabbit?
http://germancarscene.com/2007/05/10...ered-mk1-golf/

[The37Kid]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

How about this one?

Yes, it is late at night but that photo makes the car look as if it is actually racing up the hill!

[oldebob]

How about a belly tank version of a car like the old Cooper formula 3. One of those with a 500cc Norton Manx motor was hard to beat on a short road course with anything. A Busa in a belly tank. Yeh!

[ehdubya]

You might want to leave the 'busa outside. banjeaux those chains look real scary.

[fur biscuit]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

How about this one?

blimey, big honking brass bullox on that one!!

[fur biscuit]

Originally Posted by Katzenjammer

Do you really think that was the weight distribution? I can't see how the engine and cooling system could have outweighed an adult male driver and the drive train. Could you explain?

Well, looking back in history (pictures and not using my 240 lb ass as reference) most of those drivers couldn't have weighed more than 150 pounds. The driver's ass is in front of the rear wheel and behind the center line of the car. The engine (which weighs about 125 pounds for arguements sake) is mounted just in front of the centerline of the front axle. Gas, water and misc is located just behind the engine and above the drivers feet: all in front of the centerline of the car. All the suspension components, steering are in the front of the car. There is only a swing arm and shocks in the back. I would hazard a guess and say the weight distribution is in the range of 55/45 f/r. and looking at most pictures of Mog's at speed, those front ends push pretty hard.

[mjxlange]

This is something I have been planning for years. I think this year may be the one. Here are two good sites with a lot of info. They may mite not be the most HAMB friendly but will get you started.

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/index.php

http://reversetrike.com/home.html

[old bone]

just watched nacho libre with jack black the other night ..he had a great homemade rig...trying to find pics

[porknbeaner]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

Driving home from school today, listening to NPR, I hear talk about the SmartCar coming to the U.S. in January. Which gets me to thinking about small cars. Which gets me to thinking about the Fiat 500 I see in the parking lot every now and then and how I fantasize about putting a Hayabusa engine in one. Which further leads to me thinking about motorcycle engines in four-wheeled contraptions in general.

How about one of these:



Stuffed into one of these?



What have you got?

-Dave

Not a new concept.
The 3 wheeled Morgan wasn't much more than a motorcycle with a body as well as the BMW Issetta.

On a different note there where 4 cylinder motorcycles American built that weren't much more than a jeep with 2 wheels like the henderson 4 and the Indian 4. Ok they didn't have jeep engines but they looked a lot like a 2 wheeler with a jeep motor in it.

[rivguy]

In Calif. a three wheeled vehicle is considered a motorcycle. Doesn't matter what kind of engine it has. Roth's v-8 powered trikes were motorcycles, so were his V-W powered ones. A four wheeled vehicle would be an automobile, no matter what the engine. There are a lot of trike conversions currently on the market for Goldwings Harley is even offering a Factory authorized model. Of course these are obviously motorcycles and from what I've read they are not the most stable thing going around corners.Harley bought the rights to a three wheeled vehicle, two wheels in front, similar to a Morgan. My brother in law built a three wheeler that has a solid axle in front with an Yamaha XS11 grafted on the back. The front end looks like a Mode T and the back end looks kinda spacey. I describe it as the Absent minded Professor meets Alien. I wouldn't think that it would be any harder to register a four wheeled cyclecar than a Kit T bucket. I have seen a licensed Legend car that is street driven.

[leon renaud]

For Ct. guys thinking of building one of these I have the latest printing of the "Composite vehicle" booklet and it covers motorcycles in it they satate that "No motorcycle shall have a body which encloses the operator" I have collected enough stuff to assemble a 3 wheeler like JAP or Morgan but now I'm not so sure I could get it registered here.Ct. isa pulling a lot of stuff lately with "composite Vehicle" registrations to the point of recalling already registered vehicles for re inspections!

[oilslinger53]

I saw a cool messerschmidt trike car(spelling?) on sunday, I'll put up pics when I get home...

[retromotors]

For the Bavarian flat twin lovers, a Brooklands kit car.
1000cc BMW mated to a Citroen 2CV transaxle.

[1lowtoy]

Hmm, giving me ideas about a cushman lsd axel and a 440cc maico engine i have lying around

[Lightning]

Years ago, my dad bought a British made Berkeley which ran a 322 cc British M/C engine in it but later went with the 700 cc modification - - Just look how small these cars are compared to the people standing next to it.

[lakesmod]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

How about this one?

Any more pictures and information on this one?

Fred

[Bigcheese327]

It looks as if I’m not the only one who was thinking about cyclecars over lunch.

Okay, I’ve devised my ideal, HAMB-friendly cyclecar. I moved to farm country, and I keep seeing these old, small tractors with streamlined sheetmetal and remembering this ever-popular illustration:



So here’s my concept:
• Knucklehead V-twin, mounted sideways in a tube chassis
• 5-speed manual from 4-cylinder S10 (modern equivalent to a V8/60 transmission)
• 1940s Ford truck differential (open-drive banjo on parallel leaf springs)
• boat-tail speedster body with Oliver tractor front grille and cycle fenders
• narrow I-beam front axle; parallel leaf springs
• small dash with speedometer and idiot lights
• race car, four-spoke steering wheel
• ‘35 Ford-type wire spoke wheels; 5.50-16 bias ply tires

If you were hellbent on the Morgan-style three wheeler concept, scratch the rear banjo and adapt the S10 transmission to a modern bike’s shaft-drive rear wheel with some tricky machine work.

Paint it bright orange or yellow so you don’t get squished while out on the road, and good luck titling it!

-Dave

[Carl La Fong]

Originally Posted by leon renaud

For Ct. guys thinking of building one of these I have the latest printing of the "Composite vehicle" booklet and it covers motorcycles in it they satate that "No motorcycle shall have a body which encloses the operator" I have collected enough stuff to assemble a 3 wheeler like JAP or Morgan but now I'm not so sure I could get it registered here.Ct. isa pulling a lot of stuff lately with "composite Vehicle" registrations to the point of recalling already registered vehicles for re inspections!

Depends on CT's definition of "encloses". My definition says a Morgan style trike doesn't enclose or surround the driver since they were all roadsters. The remainder of the driver was covered by a rudimentary soft top and side curtains which were not part of the body. They were removed and stored behind the cockpit. BTW, no self respecting "Moggie" driver ever puts up the top

[fordfan289]

Has anyone seen the old one jaylenos web site Model A front indian rear awsome body real cool.

[mervk]

What a great thread I have fallen into. Love the post on the Red Bug on page 4. I am lucky enough to own one of these cars. I also own a great little Twombly cyclecar, as well as a UK built Merlin cyclecar. Pictures are on my website at www.kroll.id.au

I have been unable to locate another Merlin anywhere, and have a letter from the Veteran Car Club of UK saying they have none registered. I am sure there has to be another out there somewhere though. If anyone knows of a Merlin, with twin cylinder air cooled Precision motor, I would like to hear from you. It would look different to mine, as my body is not original. In fact, I have not been sucessful in finding out what they should look like.

Enjoy my site.

Cheers

Mervk

[randomray]

I checked your cycle cars out , Very Nice Mervk ! I'm being greedy here ,I wish you had a little more detail in the photos . I really like your motorcycles too .

[markus2]

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYuj9...layer_embedded

Amilcar CGSs supercharger 1927 cyclecar
The car is ex Gary Byrd vintage car race driver he used in the early 80s.
I've just finisherd to restore the supercharger and the engine...

And for those interested in cyclecars, have a look on my websitehttp://lecyclecaristebelge.com

[model.A.keith]

How did i miss this thread ?

anyway, Here's a Carden cyclecar













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[model.A.keith]

More info on the Carden.



7/8 hp, 707 cc two-stroke horizontal twin-cylinder engine in unit with two-speed transaxle, independent coil spring sliding pillar front suspension, coil spring rear suspension, two-wheel mechanical brakes. Wheelbase: 75"













John Valentine Carden was a devotee of the ultra-light – aircraft as well as cars. His first cyclecars were built in 1913 in his own workshops in Farnham, Surrey. The first car offered for sale debuted at Brooklands that April, a wood-bodied, single-seat monocoque powered by a J.A.P. 481 cc single-cylinder engine. It lapped the track at more than 46 mph, hardly hindered by its single-speed gearing. Carden Engineering Co., Ltd. was formed in 1914 and took over larger premises in Teddington, Middlesex.

Carden sold his design to Ward & Avery, Ltd., who took over the Teddington factory. After World War I, the car’s name was changed to A.V., and several hundred were built through 1922. Carden, meanwhile, had designed another cyclecar which he sold to Edward Tamplin, who took up manufacture under his own name.

Then, at new premises at Ascot, Carden brought out yet another design, a side-by-side two-seater with a rear-mounted horizontal two-stroke engine. This was mounted in unit with a two-speed gearbox and rear axle. The suspension used what were described as “helical springs,” mildly tapered coils which in front were used in a sliding pillar independent design reminiscent of Morgan and Lancia








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.

[noboD]

Model A Keith, any idea of weight? Looks to be made entirely of wood.

[weps]

IMP cyclecar, 1913-1914, Auburn, IN There is one in the ACD Museum that ran about 15 years ago. None of the cool panel trucks are known to have survived. The factory building still exists.

[lostforawhile]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

It looks as if I’m not the only one who was thinking about cyclecars over lunch.

Okay, I’ve devised my ideal, HAMB-friendly cyclecar. I moved to farm country, and I keep seeing these old, small tractors with streamlined sheetmetal and remembering this ever-popular illustration:



So here’s my concept:
• Knucklehead V-twin, mounted sideways in a tube chassis
• 5-speed manual from 4-cylinder S10 (modern equivalent to a V8/60 transmission)
• 1940s Ford truck differential (open-drive banjo on parallel leaf springs)
• boat-tail speedster body with Oliver tractor front grille and cycle fenders
• narrow I-beam front axle; parallel leaf springs
• small dash with speedometer and idiot lights
• race car, four-spoke steering wheel
• ‘35 Ford-type wire spoke wheels; 5.50-16 bias ply tires

If you were hellbent on the Morgan-style three wheeler concept, scratch the rear banjo and adapt the S10 transmission to a modern bike’s shaft-drive rear wheel with some tricky machine work.

Paint it bright orange or yellow so you don’t get squished while out on the road, and good luck titling it!

-Dave

great idea!! shouldn't have any problems titling it, it's got a motorcycle engine, I would think in places like Cali wouldn't it be exempt because of what powers it? Those guys got the real bumper cars street legal.

[skull]

l have two;

1. 1931 chevy exrace car 5/8 scale (dwarf car) street legal with a 1989 1100cc V-twin honda motor, custom made transfer box so we could hook up a chain drive and still use the driveshaft to turn the 8" long on one side and 14'' other side offset rear end out of a toyota truck.

2. 1960 coushman truckster with 750 honda magna 750cc motor.

search cushman truckster and there is a man who puts 1100cc to 1500cc goldwing motors in these types of 3-wheelers.

have just the nose pic of a street legal legend exrace car in texas.

later

[swi66]

1913 Scripps-Booth Bi-Autogo

A 3,200-lb. motorcycle with training wheels, a V8 engine and enough copper tubing to provide every hillbilly in the Ozarks with a still, the Scripps-Booth Bi-Autogo was the daft experiment of James Scripps-Booth, an heir of the Scripps publishing fortune and a self-taught — or untaught — auto engineer. The Bi-Autogo was essentially a two-wheeled vehicle, carrying its considerable heft on 37-in. wooden wheels. At slow speeds, the driver could lower small wheels on outriggers to stabilize the vehicle so it wouldn't plop over. This is not a case of the advantage of hindsight; this was obviously a crazy idea, even in 1913. The Bi-Autogo does enjoy the historical distinction of being the first V8-powered vehicle ever built in Detroit, so you could argue it is the beginning of an even greater folly.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/20...657674,00.html

Maybe technically, more a motorcycle, but with those outriggers........

But they built other cyclecars........

1914 Scripps-Booth Rocket Cyclecar
		Weighing less than 700 pounds, featuring tandem seating, a wheelbase 100 inches or less, belt drive and a V-twin Spacke engine, the Rocket Cyclecar is representative of almost every characteristic that marked the short-lived fad called the cyclecar. While many of the 200 plus manufacturers of cyclecars were simply riding the coattails of a fashion, James Scripps Booth’s creation was among the most reputable. Scripps Booth’s first attempt at auto design resulted in the one-of-a-kind Bi-Autogo, a 3,200-pound behemoth that failed to make it beyond the prototype stage. The Rocket followed immediately thereafter, and showed signs of being a fair bit more successful. Scripps Booth described his cyclecar as, “elemental cheap transportation for the workingman,” putting his intentions among the likes of Henry Ford with his Model T. But as the cost of full-sized autos fell significantly that year, and the tendency of the drive belt to slip in wet weather, 1914 was the only year Scripps Booth produced his Rocket. Specifications: 10 horsepower, 35 cubic inch, Spacke V-twin air-cooled engine. Price New: $385. Wheelbase: 100 inches. Transmission: two-speed planetary with belt drive. Production: 400 units. Connections: Compare to the Woods Mobilette and the Scripps Booth Bi-Autogo and Model C. In 1914 the average automobile cost between $700 and $800, the Rocket cost $385.

[porknbeaner]

Originally Posted by metalshapes

This one is on the Auction site right now...

I'd like to own a 3 wheeled Morgan someday.
I had an Isetta once. That was long before Urkle had one.

[Cymro]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

How about this one?

Any more details on this one please?

[Cymro]

Peel Trident manufactured on th Isle of Man during the early 60's Rothesque? May well be O/T but micro cars were very popular in the UK during the 50's and 60's due to the comparativly high cost of fuel and the Zues Crisis. This link may be of interesthttp://microcarmuseum.com/info.html.

[kookee]

There are quite a few that are being built using Moto Guzzi motors. I had actually looked into it, as I have an old Guzzi Eldorado I am messing with. While considering it, I had concerns over the power to weight ratio. That is when I discovered this. http://www.kompressor-guzzi.de/

The inspiration: http://www.motoguzziguide.com/2009/03/cyclecar/#more-82

http://cycle-car.com/ - with harley davidson motors.

There is also a British(?) manufacturer that produces these with new VINs as new vehicles.

[kookee]

Oh. I found this one as well. How about a wooden car built in 1959 that uses a 1952 Ariel Square 4? http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...om-wooden-car/

[Cymro]

Originally Posted by Cymro

Peel Trident manufactured on th Isle of Man during the early 60's Rothesque? May well be O/T but micro cars were very popular in the UK during the 50's and 60's due to the comparativly high cost of fuel and the Zues Crisis. This link may be of interesthttp://microcarmuseum.com/info.html.

Hope these pics work

[model.A.keith]

Originally Posted by noboD

Model A Keith, any idea of weight? Looks to be made entirely of wood.

I shouldn't think it weighs any more than about 600lbs, I certainly wouldn't want to drive it in a stong wind !

[model.A.keith]

What amazes me most is where things turn up and Why ...guess these were for sale but didn't see a sign or price...El Mirage in September





.

.

[retromotors]

Damn ... look at all the chains ....!!!
Bet this puppy has a sound all its own, exhaust cracklin' and chains a-singin'.

Off topic for HAMB, but relevant to this thread:
Anyone who has ever dealt much with British machinery (particularly motorcycles) owes themselves a visit to the Hurley-Pugh Owners site ... its a riot!
http://www.hurley-pugh.co.uk/hpechome.html

For those who suffer from ADD, or not interested in a long read, here's a teaser on adjusting the Hurley-Pugh magneto .... hilarious!
http://www.hurley-pugh.co.uk/pughospark.html

[swi66]

The peel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ub5rBdrE4

The Miser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq-C...eature=related

Dinarg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVxDF...eature=related

And best Peel 50 video ever

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/tiny-apeel

[model.A.keith]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

A lot of folks have asked about the car in my avatar.

GN and is called "The Hornet Special".I also know that the gent competes at Shelsley Walsh Hillclimb.I have sent off a letter asking for more information and images.We all may have to wait until I go visit modelaKeith one summer to get more pictures and info.

Let me know when ...

Health and Saftey at work here !












Bob, I've pm'd you the link


Keith

.

.

[noboD]

Holy sheet, I was thinking how cool it would be to drive something like that. I'm not so sure after seeing these pics, I like my balls where they are!!

[fur biscuit]

Originally Posted by noboD

Holy sheet, I was thinking how cool it would be to drive something like that. I'm not so sure after seeing these pics, I like my balls where they are!!

your are right, i will take mine a curtiss jenny v8, those little harleys just dont cut it.

[flynbrian48]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

How about this one?

'

Bob, I know why you picked this photo as your avitar!

[model.A.keith]

Replica of the 'prototype' 1909 Morgan







.

.

[blackjack]

Originally Posted by kookee

There are quite a few that are being built using Moto Guzzi motors. I had actually looked into it, as I have an old Guzzi Eldorado I am messing with. While considering it, I had concerns over the power to weight ratio. That is when I discovered this. http://www.kompressor-guzzi.de/

The inspiration: http://www.motoguzziguide.com/2009/03/cyclecar/#more-82

http://cycle-car.com/ - with harley davidson motors.

There is also a British(?) manufacturer that produces these with new VINs as new vehicles.

That'd be my mate Richard Oakes of Blackjack Cars. You can have any Moto Guzzi engine or any VW air cooled flat 4. In both cases it drives through the front wheels using a Beetle transaxle and VW Golf driveshafts and hubs.

[model.A.keith]

Bump for anymore,........???









.


.

[Customline Vicky]

And then there is this, a car cycle I guess. Has a 2300 Ford motor in it. And I have always thought something could be done with any 1500 or 1800 Gold Wing motor. They already have a reverse.

[kustombuilder]

love this thread!!! been dreaming of one for years.

[boldventure]

I just glanced at a thread about odd/unusual suspensions....there was an odd on from a highboy....then I galnced at this one...and there's not much frame forward of the engine in either...I wonder how well that would work (?) Anyways that's a neat gizmobile

[The37Kid]

This is one of my favorite automotive photos, did the original photographer win any awards for it?

[Brooky]

Hi guys, I'm new here but I've browsed these forums for a while now. Just had to swing by to comment on this thread. Now I've seen the Hornet at a VMCC (vintage motorcycle club) rally & I've seen Thunderbug a couple of times at VSCC (vintage sports car club) meetings. My recollection is that they are both owned by the same chap, Mark Walker who's part of the Walkers Crisps (potato chips) family. He's a brilliant engineer and he built both cars (I use the word "cars" quite loosely). Hornet is really a hugely powerful buckboard! I asked Mark about Thunderbug. He admitted that it wasn't desperately competitive but it just made him smile every time he started it, as a 4.2 litre V twin would! My fascination with these cars is the fabulous patination of age, constant use and the sheer, simple brutality of them. Hornet is my dream car, quick enough to keep up and mad enough to be one hell of a blast to drive! I've got all sorts of ideas floating round my head for a single engined version of the beast. One day, one day!

Brooky.

[model.A.keith]

Originally Posted by Brooky

Hi guys, I'm new here but I've browsed these forums for a while now. Just had to swing by to comment on this thread. Now I've seen the Hornet at a VMCC (vintage motorcycle club) rally & I've seen Thunderbug a couple of times at VSCC (vintage sports car club) meetings. My recollection is that they are both owned by the same chap, Mark Walker who's part of the Walkers Crisps (potato chips) family. He's a brilliant engineer and he built both cars (I use the word "cars" quite loosely). Hornet is really a hugely powerful buckboard! I asked Mark about Thunderbug. He admitted that it wasn't desperately competitive but it just made him smile every time he started it, as a 4.2 litre V twin would! My fascination with these cars is the fabulous patination of age, constant use and the sheer, simple brutality of them. Hornet is my dream car, quick enough to keep up and mad enough to be one hell of a blast to drive! I've got all sorts of ideas floating round my head for a single engined version of the beast. One day, one day!

Brooky.

Here ya go Thunderbug !




.

.

[SanctaRosa]

I'm surprised nobody posted a link to this webpage.......

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...bs&Qis=XL#qdig

It's very much a cyclecar of the wood, wire and string kind and I've always liked the look of it because of its overall simplicity.

This is another old plan of the same kind.......

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2010/...bs&Qis=XL#qdig

[Alberta Bud]

The "Smart" cars have been in Canada for several years. They should only be allowed on bicycle paths. Follow one on the highway and watch it get blown around by each passing truck.I have a picture of one embedded in the grille of a Kenworth. They may be o.k in theory,but we live in real life. It is fast becoming sport here to turn them on their side.Kind of like cow tipping. Smart,are the guys who don't buy these things.

[James D]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bud

The "Smart" cars have been in Canada for several years. They should only be allowed on bicycle paths. Follow one on the highway and watch it get blown around by each passing truck.I have a picture of one embedded in the grille of a Kenworth. They may be o.k in theory,but we live in real life. It is fast becoming sport here to turn them on their side.Kind of like cow tipping. Smart,are the guys who don't buy these things.

Nobody has a problem with them in Europe, and there are plenty of them on the roads here. Mind you, I doubt I´d feel very safe in one if every other car was a ridiculously gigantic SUV. I probably find SUVs as stupid as you do Smart cars!

There are a few with Hayabusa motors in them too.

[SanctaRosa]

So when did Smart cars become cyclecars?

Whenever I hear the word 'cyclecar' mentioned I think of something like this........

[Frank]

I am really intrigued by that front suspension system there. Trying to get my head around it.

[James D]

Originally Posted by Frank

I am really intrigued by that front suspension system there. Trying to get my head around it.

Think "soap box" racer and you´re not far off. It appaeras that it pivots for steering and suspension in the centre. What happens under deflection of only one front wheel is probably best not to think about. I like the bungy cord rear suspension.

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by SanctaRosa

So when did Smart cars become cyclecars?

Whenever I hear the word 'cyclecar' mentioned I think of something like this........

The reason I mentioned them in the original post is that the concept is similar: Small, basic transportation designed for nothing more than running errands in an urban environment, or transporting one or two individuals to a mass-transit hub (rail or bus station).

Cycle cars are not well suited to most areas of the United States, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be fun. Better yet, most states don’t regulate them to the same extent as true automobiles, so there’s a lot more flexibility for the hobbyist - no searching for the appropriate “historical document” with which to defraud... er, persuade the authorities.

-Dave

[daddylama]

great- this thread had to come back up... i had almost forgotten about my desire to build one, now i'm all riled up again

i'd think it wouldn't be too much of an issue to drive one around here (Portland, Oregon). "alternative transportation" is one benefit to being in such a tree hugging city. there's a few electric "cars" that aren't registered.
hell, my daily driver's tags expired 10 years ago... (car sat in a barn for ages, title mess, but i'm still driving it)

wonder if'n it'd be better to narrow an A banjo (i've got a few of them around), or do something like a servi-car rear (which are expensive)...
have plenty of harley wheels that'd work...
have a shovelhead with clean papers that'd work...

damn, damn, damn. too many projects, too many desires, not enough time.

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

The reason I mentioned them in the original post is that the concept is similar: Small, basic transportation designed for nothing more than running errands in an urban environment, or transporting one or two individuals to a mass-transit hub (rail or bus station).

Cycle cars are not well suited to most areas of the United States, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be fun. Better yet, most states don’t regulate them to the same extent as true automobiles, so there’s a lot more flexibility for the hobbyist - no searching for the appropriate “historical document” with which to defraud... er, persuade the authorities.

-Dave

Hi Dave, thanks for the clarification Even though I've keen on cyclecars for most of my life my particular interest these days lies in ways and means of providing simple low cost transport for folk who don't have much money to come and go on. A Smart car gets a tick for being small and basic, but it would still be a too expensive option in terms of initial purchase cost for many low waged people.
As for myself I use a very vintage looking Hercules adult tricycle made in India for getting around, but its vintage appearance is only skin deep as it is driven by a 24 volt electric motor hub. Where I live here in New Zealand is a rural pasture dairy farming district and my tricycle is excellent for getting around the township itself and also for shorter trips out into the countryside. I've hauled some serious sort of loads with my tricycle so it's a completely practical form of transport and it also doesn't cost me a cent in registration charges. It's absolutely easy to park and the cost of electricity is virtually nix.
The one let down is that it's not so great when it rains so I've been wondering about building myself a more enclosed three wheeled vehicle. I walk with a stick so I'm not into any kind of lowslung vehicle that I would have to fold myself into and the way I see it the more car-like something is the less likely it would be to get nudged off the road by the huge logging trucks and milk tankers that thunder through town on a regular basis.
Going back to the vintage era I thought I'd build something like a 1920's Pedelux for myself. Still bicycle based, but it looks like a car and would keep me dry in the rain

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by Frank

(picture of cyclecar here)

I am really intrigued by that front suspension system there. Trying to get my head around it.

It's a centre pivot steering system with a central spring. Quite a few of the early European cyclecars used this simple type of steering which could become alarmingly dangerous at speed. Most cyclecars of this type tended to be narrow tracked with tandem seating such as the French built 'Bedelia' cyclecar.

[Spoggie]

This one I'd like to adapt to a Bedelia- like scale. I dig the Bedelia layout.

[daddylama]

Originally Posted by SanctaRosa

It's a centre pivot steering system with a central spring. Quite a few of the early European cyclecars used this simple type of steering which could become alarmingly dangerous at speed....

damn, think "radio flyer wagon" at high speed. ever ride one down a hill? they become quite unstable real quick... during a turn, the front pushes and they topple over real good.

sure is a simple setup, though


i was thinking along the lines of a go-cart steering setup... though not sure how well a 3/4 turn lock to lock would do on the street, even in a very light weight cyclecar. just keep seeing a broken wrist on a good pothole or curb.

[SanctaRosa]

This looks like fun, - it's an 'O-We-Go' cyclecar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zFYg...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlGNb50Kiok&feature=fvsr

[JackdaRabbit]

I've been pipe dreamin about a Morgan style reverse trike for a few yrs. now. Here's a photoshop rambling using a chopped Model A grille.
I just brought home the eventual motive power for this build a week ago. A Kaw. Vulcan 1500. The important points being big CC, shaft drive, water cooled, carbed 2 cyl for simplicity, and spoked rims.
The plan is for a tube frame grafted to the swing arm structure and move the engine up under the hood using an extended drive shaft.

[James D]

Too modern and totally not tradional, but maybe some food for thought here...

http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/index.htm

[KUZTOM]

What about this in front of our 57'

[noboD]

SanctaRosa, that O-We-Go is incredible. Thanks for posting the slideshow.

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by JackdaRabbit

I've been pipe dreamin about a Morgan style reverse trike for a few yrs. now. Here's a photoshop rambling using a chopped Model A grille.
I just brought home the eventual motive power for this build a week ago. A Kaw. Vulcan 1500. The important points being big CC, shaft drive, water cooled, carbed 2 cyl for simplicity, and spoked rims.
The plan is for a tube frame grafted to the swing arm structure and move the engine up under the hood using an extended drive shaft.

Nice, very much in the spirit of the old cyclecars

[gnichols]

Think this is functional, or just an art car? It appears that the training wheels retract, eh? I have no idea... found the pix on another web site. Gary

[James D]

Originally Posted by JackdaRabbit

I've been pipe dreamin about a Morgan style reverse trike for a few yrs. now. Here's a photoshop rambling using a chopped Model A grille.
I just brought home the eventual motive power for this build a week ago. A Kaw. Vulcan 1500. The important points being big CC, shaft drive, water cooled, carbed 2 cyl for simplicity, and spoked rims.
The plan is for a tube frame grafted to the swing arm structure and move the engine up under the hood using an extended drive shaft.

Nice project - I´m just wondering why you intend to move the motor forwards. Seems like a lot of work, but I can´t see any benefit? Just curious.

[Bigcheese327]

Originally Posted by James D

Nice project - I´m just wondering why you intend to move the motor forwards. Seems like a lot of work, but I can´t see any benefit? Just curious.

If he doesn't, I think it ends up where he wants to sit.

-Dave

[James D]

Originally Posted by Bigcheese327

If he doesn't, I think it ends up where he wants to sit.

-Dave

Well, yes, but either you sit in front of the motor, or it sits in front of you. Six of one...
And if it sits in front of you, then you have a drive shaft to get through the cockpit.

More here...

http://thekneeslider.com/motorcycle-powered-cars/

[Bigcheese327]

Functionally, you're correct, but the Morgan aesthetic requires the driver just ahead of the rear wheel, therefore the engine has to be moved forward of the driver and under the hood.

-Dave

[88daryl88]

This was built by #1, some very clever details. More pics at his site: www.rokonworld.com


For those who may have missed them, also check out the "Motorcycle Engined Cars" thread

[James D]

Oh come on now - nobody on this board cares about aesthetics, surely! ;-)

[JackdaRabbit]

Originally Posted by James D

Nice project - I´m just wondering why you intend to move the motor forwards. Seems like a lot of work, but I can´t see any benefit? Just curious.

Yeah, pretty much for ass-thetics. The HAMB is largely discussion of front engine, rear wheel drive platforms, eh? We make things difficult for ourselves. Otherwise we'd be on another board yappin away about our Accords and Camrys.
I also have a (non-scientific) sense that I like the weight distribution better; at least for braking and cornering. The 'Busa powered T-Rex is engine behind driver and they say it's got great performance though, so I don't know.
The driveshaft is small diameter so I figure it won't encroch into the cockpit too much. Another reason I like the Kawi is the shaft runs down the left side which will put the engine a little off center to the right thereby compensating balance a bit when driving solo.

[JackdaRabbit]

Originally Posted by SanctaRosa

This looks like fun, - it's an 'O-We-Go' cyclecar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zFYg...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlGNb50Kiok&feature=fvsr

It's funny you post this link. I live 30 minutes from Hickories Park Owego, NY and your from way on the bottom of the world. I didn't attend last year's car show there so I didn't see the O-We-Go. I see it's powered by a Monarch engine which I think also has some connection to Owego, NY. I've seen a Monarch motorcycle from the teens on display in a museum in Owego.
Cool video. I think they could use a belt tensioner (or 2)!

[mcknight05]

Not hamb friendy at all . but this is my cycle car. (for the dirt)its powered by a cbr 929 fuel injected motor. almost finished. just waiting on to stub shafts

[cruzincougar]

How about wooden frame and body with cycle engine?

[The37Kid]

It's real, 1913 Booth Bi Auto, V8 powered too! Google it for more info. They only built one, it was once part of the James Melton collection in the early 1950's two towns south of me.

Originally Posted by gnichols

Think this is functional, or just an art car? It appears that the training wheels retract, eh? I have no idea... found the pix on another web site. Gary

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by JackdaRabbit

It's funny you post this link. I live 30 minutes from Hickories Park Owego, NY and your from way on the bottom of the world. I didn't attend last year's car show there so I didn't see the O-We-Go. I see it's powered by a Monarch engine which I think also has some connection to Owego, NY. I've seen a Monarch motorcycle from the teens on display in a museum in Owego.
Cool video. I think they could use a belt tensioner (or 2)!

I think the loose belts allow for transmission slip during turns to save the rear tyres and generally take the strain off everything. This variety of heroic wire and string type cyclecar is what I love best; - not that I wouldn't say no to a ride in a Morgan mind you, - but a variable friction drive transmission and a pair of long drive belts is such a wonderfully simple and basic way of getting it done.
It was the very appealing name 'O-We-Go' that drew me to do an on-line search for that particular cyclecar. A name that fits the beast perfectly methinks

Um...... Pete.... it is Pete isn't it? I have to say that isn't my idea of a cyclecar at all even though it's plain you've put a lot of effort into it. Aesthetics do matter when it comes to building a cyclecar; the Morgan type of reverse trike MUST have its engine at the front, - the more on show it is the better, and the driver MUST sit just ahead of the rear wheel. A 4 wheeled cyclecar may have its engine either at the back or at the front, but it MUST look as if it owes its origins in part to either the bicycle or the motorcycle or it is no more than a light car.

An 'AV' Monocar. Cyclecar racing at its hair raising best.

[JackdaRabbit]

SanctaRosa, I can't tell who you mean by Pete and which pic is not your idea of a cyclecar.
Jack

[JackdaRabbit]

Originally Posted by cruzincougar

How about wooden frame and body with cycle engine?

Yeah, Ive got a pic of a wooden example.
Gack!

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by JackdaRabbit

SanctaRosa, I can't tell who you mean by Pete and which pic is not your idea of a cyclecar.
Jack

McKnight05's post with the three dirt hopper pictures. The pictures are captioned 'Pete'sCar'.

As for the wooden thing in the picture you posted above somebody had themselves a lack of imagination attack when they built that.

[James D]

Originally Posted by SanctaRosa

I think the loose belts allow for transmission slip during turns to save the rear tyres and generally take the strain off everything. This variety of heroic wire and string type cyclecar is what I love best; - not that I wouldn't say no to a ride in a Morgan mind you, - but a variable friction drive transmission and a pair of long drive belts is such a wonderfully simple and basic way of getting it done.

An 'AV' Monocar. Cyclecar racing at its hair raising best.

I am wondering if the narrow track of most of these was also to compensate for a lack of differential gears?

That AV Monocar is excellent! I like the rear engine layout a lot. It would allow a short and simple chain drive.

[gnichols]

Originally Posted by The37Kid

It's real, 1913 Booth Bi Auto, V8 powered too! Google it for more info. They only built one, it was once part of the James Melton collection in the early 1950's two towns south of me.

Wow... who'd a thunk it. I really enjoy this thread. Thanx, Gary

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by James D

I am wondering if the narrow track of most of these was also to compensate for a lack of differential gears?

That AV Monocar is excellent! I like the rear engine layout a lot. It would allow a short and simple chain drive.

I'm fairly certain too that the lack of a differential was the reason for the narrow track. The AV Monocar's basic layout is very similar how the Cycle Kart guys build their cars. The chassis in the picture is not mine (unfortunately) and is representative of a 'GN' cyclecar. I've wondered more than once just how easy it would be to push the CycleKart envelope just that wee bit more to actually create a full sized cyclecar.

[James D]

Never heard of "CycleKarts" until now. Looks like a lot of fun though. Surely they could be scaled up slightly and built with motorcycle parts?

http://www.cyclekarts.com/

[gearjam1]

I have a 1950 Jowett Jupiter that is missing the motor. The original was replaced with a V8/60, which was then pulled prior to me purchasing the car. There is very little room for an engine, so I have been kicking around for quite a while, fitting a powerful motorcycle engine in place of the original boxer configuration 4 cylinder. With it's light weight, the Jupiter should really scoot with a bike engine as a replacement!

[88daryl88]

Originally Posted by gearjam1

I have a 1950 Jowett Jupiter that is missing the motor. The original was replaced with a V8/60, which was then pulled prior to me purchasing the car. There is very little room for an engine, so I have been kicking around for quite a while, fitting a powerful motorcycle engine in place of the original boxer configuration 4 cylinder. With it's light weight, the Jupiter should really scoot with a bike engine as a replacement!

Interesting idea. Are you thinking air or watercooled? Can you post some pics of the Jowett and the empty engine bay.

[James D]

My first thought with the originally flat four powered Jowett was - whisper it - Subaru.

[full house Mouse]

Great Thread thanks

[88daryl88]

Originally Posted by James D

My first thought with the originally flat four powered Jowett was - whisper it - Subaru.

Scooby Doo will probably require a serious brake & suspension update.

[metalshapes]

Originally Posted by James D

My first thought with the originally flat four powered Jowett was - whisper it - Subaru.

No...

Scat V4.

[SanctaRosa]

Now don't go frightening rare sportscars like Jowett Jupiters thank you very much

What has fascinated me in particular were the small cars made largely from bicycle components that were used in Europe by ordinary folk during the Second World War. Endless quantities of bicycles get dumped in our town rubbish tip and I've never had any problem finding bicycle parts when I need them. Unfortunately alot of the very cheap chain store bicycles that get dumped are not much good for anything due to the very poor quality of their components, but that's just the way things are made in this modern age of ours (sigh).
Anyway here is a copy of Swedish plan from the wartime years for the 'Fantom' which can still be purchased if you really wanted to have one. Old photos are hard to find and I have a feeling that most of the pictures I have are of the same recently built Fantom, but at least they are nice and clear and show good detail.
I would very much like to build one of these during our New Zealand Winter when it's often too wet to get much done in the garden. I really do need a cheap to run all weather vehicle and I refuse to have anything to do with owning or driving a modern day motorcar when I'm supposed to be vowed to poverty and simplicity.

[SanctaRosa]

I absolutely love the picture of the Fantom parked next to the Rolls Royce

And yes the plans, - I didn't forget, - it's just that I ran out of attachment file space on the last post. The plans are for both a 3 wheeler and a 4 wheeler, but the front end for them both is exactly the same.

And yes I know the plans are very small, but I think it's more a case of using what you have rather than following the plan religiously. The tractor dealers around here are forever dumping the steel pallet crates they get their tractor parts in and I've been hoarding steel from these pallets in the garage against the day I can make a start on my own cyclecar frame.

[SanctaRosa]

Yes me again

This is the 4 wheel version of the Fantom. I think this is a restoration rather than a replica.

[Bigcheese327]

Sanctarosa, I don't know what to say except that the Fantom is pretty cool looking. It wouldn't be of much practical use in my neck of the woods, though, unless it were somehow self-propelled.

I could see using those plans on a true cyclecar chassis to build a more efficient cyclecar, though.

What's gearing like on the human-propelled version?

-Dave

[SanctaRosa]

Hi Dave, I think the Fantom's gearing can be whatever you might have to hand in the way of donor bicycle parts and will fit

With regard to getting such a cyclecar to actually move the ones built for family use often had two sets of pedals which certainly would help matters along a bit.


Using a 'hjälpmotor' (Finnish for helper motor) was also something that was often done. Please excuse the quality of this grainy old photo

I was given a number of old Villiers single cylinder engines not so long ago that would certainly provide enough parts to build up a useful 'hjälpmotor'. Around here the landscape is largely flat and such a cyclecar would only be for local use anyway.

[one armed hammer head]

SanctaRose - the workings of the Fantom with the pedals being in a forward position and high remind me of the recumbent bicyles I see around town and on the trail here.

I will try later to attach a few photos of a cycle car I read an article about that I thought everyone here on this thread might like to see. I'm having a bit of a problem with getting the images down to a usable size for this thread. I'll post when I get the best of it.

Really have been enjoying reading this cycle car thread - haven't been able to read all the way through yet, but what I have has been very interesting.
Jay

[noboD]

Here's one I saw at Oley motorcycle show a few years ago. Pics were given by 62Pan. The body was fiberglass and engine was a flathead Harley, had to be kickstarted from the passenger's seat. I don't think I recognise the body, anyone?

[SanctaRosa]

Yes nuffing new under the sun when it comes to bicycle technology Hammer Head

Those modern hi-tech recumbents on the trail are the grandchildren of the plywood Velocars and bicycle cars & etc from the pre-war and wartime period of last century. Google 'Mochet' and 'Velocar' and you'll be amazed at what you see.

[SanctaRosa]

There's an interesting website, - in German unfortunately, - which outlines how to build a cyclecar. The instructions are based on those given in a book, 'The New Universe' possibly published in 1924.

http://www.cyclecar.de/index.html

Babelfish gives a somewhat odd translation, but it's possible to piece the instructions together.

[James D]

Originally Posted by SanctaRosa

There's an interesting website, - in German unfortunately, - which outlines how to build a cyclecar. The instructions are based on those given in a book, 'The New Universe' possibly published in 1924.

http://www.cyclecar.de/index.html

Babelfish gives a somewhat odd translation, but it's possible to piece the instructions together.

I can translate it better than Babelfish, if there´s anything you really need to know. Babelfish doesn´t really get along with German!

[SanctaRosa]

Thanks for the offer of help with translation James

Fortunately most of the text can be figured out with reference to the diagrams, but if I really get stuck I'll definitely ask for your help.

I wouldn't mind giving this a go; - I've got a suitable prewar motor and gearbox already and the rest can be put together with some careful selection of materials at the local rubbish tip and scrapyards.

[SanctaRosa]

I've been digging about amongst my old image files and I found some scans of a cyclecar drawing I must've done almost twenty years ago. Very much based on a Carden with a dash of Austin '7' here and there.

Several years ago I went so far as to make a start on a wooden model to help me work out basic details and sizes. I've found a few pictures I took with a very primitive early Kodak digital camera and I have a feeling that the model itself is in storage and is still in one piece. The wheels I'm using in the pictures came from a pair of toy plastic battery powered bicycles. The scale is 1&1/2 inches to the foot if I remember correctly.

[JackdaRabbit]

Nice model and I like the plan. I find it just amazing to be sharing ideas on such an obscure subject with a Sister on the other side of the world. The Net and specifically the HAMB are truely global, diverse and wonderful.

I assume that you reside in a convent and wonder what facilities you have to build a vehicle. Or will you be doing this with your father and brothers?

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by JackdaRabbit

Nice model and I like the plan. I find it just amazing to be sharing ideas on such an obscure subject with a Sister on the other side of the world. The Net and specifically the HAMB are truely global, diverse and wonderful.

I assume that you reside in a convent and wonder what facilities you have to build a vehicle. Or will you be doing this with your father and brothers?

Thanks for the nice comments about my model And yes isn't the internet marvellous for communicating with like minded folk! I keep in touch with friends in overseas Religious orders via the internet and it's wonderful to be able to do so.

I'm the sort of Sister who doesn't live in a convent as Sisters from an 'enclosed' order do, but I live almost next door to the parish church in a small cottage that has a very nice garage and carport with enough room for cyclecar building provided I don't try making a large cyclecar (no tandem seating, but I can manage a 'sociable') I largely get about by bicycle or on my adult tricycle so I'm very used to doing my own bicycle repairs. I do my own household repairs too. As much as possible I want to build this cyclecar with ordinary handtools as I want to demonstrate that low cost transport can be built with very basic equipment.
I've been looking around for 21 inch front wheels from Yamasuzkhonda dirt bikes and I've had lots of luck with finding them too. After thinking about it I'm going to use wheels with disc brakes rather than drum brakes as the older drum braked wheels are harder to find and are often in a very knocked about condition.

Unfortunately my Dad died just over 20 years ago and I still miss him heaps. I don't hear much from my brothers these days, - most probably because the last thing they ever expected me to do was convert to Catholicism and then become a Religious Sister.

[SanctaRosa]

After a quick trip on my bicycle and a search about I've found the cyclecar model. No sign of the wee bits I made for the sliding pillar front suspension, but at least I found all the wheels. Well it's really hard to get hold of skinny tyred wire wheels suitable to use for a model cyclecar and I was really thrilled when I found those two toy bicycles all those years ago because I did not want to make my own wheels.

I was wrong about the scale, it's more like 2 &1/2 inches to the foot. After looking at it for the first time in ages I can see I've put the floor in too high by about an inch, but I guess I can live with it. The wee engine is a 26cc OS 4 stroke and was an unexpected gift. Motorizing the model was never in the plan, but it certainly does look nice sitting in the engine compartment. The 'bonnet' at the front was only intended to cover up the week's grocery shopping as well as the driver's legs.

Well prest-O, change-O! The plan is now for a 2F1R three wheeler with a tubular beam axle on 1/4 eliptic springs and the engine at the front. Otherwise the general proportions will remain the same. The body and chassis will be wood and the bodyshell will in effect be in unit with the chassis to make everything light, but strong.

[Ned Ludd]

Originally Posted by James D

My first thought with the originally flat four powered Jowett was - whisper it - Subaru.

Precisely my thinking for my Morris Minor! The Minor was actually supposed to be a sort of miniature Javelin in concept. Issigonis had designed it around a side-valve flat four, which never made it to production because the prototype was sabotaged, and when the sabotage was sorted the engine was found to be a bit on the gutless side. The Minor was consequently launched with the old 918cc side-valve four shoehorned in. Still, the engine bay is short and wide, especially with the extra 4" of width Issigonis had inserted into the body dies at the last moment: I suspect he might have been trying to keep the door open for an ohv flat four early in production. The upshot is, the Minor engine bay fits a Subaru EJ engine like a glove. The only snag is, the exhaust ports are directly over the "chassis legs", so something will have to move.

My challenge will be to build a computerless EJ. Fortunately the aircraft guys have already discovered that a Ford CVH distributor can be made to run off the back end of the right-hand cam quite easily. Then it's a manifold for a pair of 1¾" SUs. The recent threads on home casting got me thinking about an aluminium cam-belt cover, too.

But I digress, as the resulting 2½-litre Morris Minor would in no way constitute a cyclecar.

One observation, though, after reading most of this (fascinating) thread. It seems that people on here mean three distinct things by the term "cyclecar":
1. A car powered by a motorcycle engine,
2. A very small car, like an Isetta or Messerschmitt, and
3. A light, (often over-)simplified car of the sort popular c. 1910-1925.
At the risk of being pedantic I'd say the term for 2. is properly "microcar"; nor is the use of a motorcycle engine enough. I wouldn't call call those pretty rear-engined BMW 700 coupés of the early '60s cyclecars, despite the motorbike-based flat-twin:

This is rather a proper small car, like a Mini or Hillman Imp, NSU, Simca, etc.

To my mind a cyclecar is properly something like a GN; running to Bedelia, Carden, etc. in the weird direction, and to Amilcar and Salmson in the other. The essential feature is the attempt to simplify the mechanism to a radical extent, and the resulting arachnid spindliness.