Let's Talk Cyclecars

[blackjack]

What I notice about my trike is that the turn-in is rapid and steering is very sharp but the turning circle and reversing turns are awful.

[onelung]

Originally Posted by Ned Ludd

.... the three-wheeled layout has several intrinsic advantages....

The British road tax "system" has a lot to answer for: is not one of its outcomes three wheel "cars" which qualified as lower taxed "motor cycles"?
And don't get me started on the RAC horsepower ratings which produced the tall, thin cylindered 4 cylinder engine. Blecch!

[av8]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

Voisin

I've had a month to dream, stew, and fret about the Laboratoire and building a reasonable facsimile of one for my very own. I've searched for construction photos and drawings but have found nothing. It would be simple enough to construct a tube space frame and clad it with aluminum panels, but I would like to see the monocoque scheme; we have the capability to do both in our basic "hobby" shop, and while the tube-frame approach would be the simpler, the monocoque scheme could be much more satisfying -- so long as we weren't traveling what might be an untrodden path of development in the car's day.

My incarnation for the car includes an 1100cc DOHC four-cylinder, water-cooled motorcycle engine with an integral five-speed transmission, driving through a narrowed lightweight, live-axle differential -- elements that exist in our project donor inventory. I realize that this project won't fit well with some of the folks on this thread, and I apologize to them up front for straying some distance away from the spirit of the true cyclecars. I'd greatly appreciate any construction information that anyone could provide, however.

This project is at least a year away; I have three-wheeler just beginning work now, one I've been planning and designing for nearly ten years, and it's not likely that a wrench will be turned on any other project until this one is on the road.

Thanks in advance for construction details on the Laboratoire ; I'll put them in my project folder for next year.

Mike

[banjeaux bob]

Here are some images from the GP retro du Puy Nortre Dame 2012.The excellant pics are by Achille.

Morgan Super Aero

[banjeaux bob]

Austin Seven

[banjeaux bob]

B.n.c. Fbs

[banjeaux bob]

Morgan Aero Sport

[banjeaux bob]

Darmont Special Compresseur

[banjeaux bob]

Darmont Etoile de France

[banjeaux bob]

Check out the outside tire on this Sanford.

[banjeaux bob]

Here's an artsy shot of Marc's 1927 Sanford at speed.

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

Darmont Special Compresseur

Got to love that special compresseur

[SanctaRosa]

Originally Posted by av8

My incarnation for the car includes an 1100cc DOHC four-cylinder, water-cooled motorcycle engine with an integral five-speed transmission, driving through a narrowed lightweight, live-axle differential -- elements that exist in our project donor inventory. I realize that this project won't fit well with some of the folks on this thread, and I apologize to them up front for straying some distance away from the spirit of the true cyclecars. I'd greatly appreciate any construction information that anyone could provide, however.


Mike

Apologise for what? That is going to be a magnificent build.

And if I manage to find any information you'll be getting it never fear for a moment that you won''t.

[SanctaRosa]

Voisin Laboratoire

[SanctaRosa]

Voisin Laboratoire

[UKAde]

http://www.driving-fun.com/forum/vie...hp?f=19&t=1336

There are some good images of the voisin with it's clothes off , this car is great there seem to be. Number of recreations good and bad ,which makes research problematic it's easier doing the jappic as there are less details available

The last recreation I helped with was the deemster we only had four of five pictures to work from

[gnichols]

Originally Posted by banjeaux bob

Austin Seven

Now that's a real cutie-pie. Gary

[av8]

Originally Posted by SanctaRosa

Voisin Laboratoire

Yes! That's the type of info I've been after. It's going to be difficult to stay on track with the three-wheeler project now.

Thanks much . . .

Mike

[Ned Ludd]

Originally Posted by onelung

The British road tax "system" has a lot to answer for: is not one of its outcomes three wheel "cars" which qualified as lower taxed "motor cycles"?
And don't get me started on the RAC horsepower ratings which produced the tall, thin cylindered 4 cylinder engine. Blecch!

Indeed. The Reliant Robin springs (or rather, er, tumbles) to mind.

Do you have the formula for RAC horsepower? Bore² x number of cylinders / 1613.

I wonder how much influence taxable horsepower ratings actually had, though, as the tendency was for thoroughly undersquare proportions even in places where such taxation did not apply. The lead given by Pomeroy's late-Edwardian "high speed" engines was taken up by manufacturers outside the UK, but these generally persisted with long strokes. One might say that the advantages of lightweight pistons, compact combustion chambers, and a short, rigid block outweighed considerations of mean piston speed when "high speed" meant something between 2500 and 3000 rpm. It is remarkable then that Delage returned to an emphatically undersquare engine (55.8mm x 76mm) in 1926 for the 15 S8 racing car, which peaked at 8000rpm, after their ever-so-slightly oversquare V12 of 1923.

Of course, mean piston speed at any given rate of rpm is a function not of the bore:stroke ratio but of stroke pure and simple. That is why very underquare engines can achieve silly crank speeds as long as they are small engines. The above Delage 1½-litre straight-8 has the same stroke as a Chevy 283 of over three times the capacity (or rev-happy 302) but probably less than 20% of the piston mass.

Had it been a road-going engine the Delage would have carried a RAC rating of 15½hp, which was not extravagant, yet it was a perfectly rational design of engine. Its actual output was nearer 180bhp.

[banjeaux bob]

Morgan F Super / Achille pic