December's monthly Banger Meeting--Merry Chritsmas everyone!!!

Well my little helper has been helping dad work on his speedster!!



I got my friction shock absorbers on finally after 6 months of not working on it. Now I am starting to finish up the steering. Figured I'd post a couple of pic before I go to dinner to start this month off!!

Chris Becker

 

Looks great- I've been waiting to see an update of your speedster, as your work is one of the reasons I joined the HAMB! What brakes did you wind up using? I'm putting parts together for a RaceWay-bodied type speedster and any tips would help.

Thanks again, Bill

PS- what is the chassis next to yours? That rear spring setup looks familiar...

 

Hi Bill,

Ive goot '83 Nissan rotors and 97 mercury mountaineer calipers. I have a complete right up on my set up on my computer at home I'll send to you.

Do you have pics of the Raceway body your using? I have an unknown body that I have chosen for my car, I think it is similar to a RaceWay but not totally sure what it is other than a real nice looking boat tail. what type of chassis and running gear are you using and what are your plans. Ilove to pics what your working on post them here if possible.

I have detailed drawings of my lowering brackets if your interested. The brackets lower my car 11 inches while stretching the frame 12 inches in the front and 7 inches in the rear.

The green chassis is a 1913 White touring that my and I are working on. I have some better pics but I am on my parents computer so like before I'll post them later.

Talk to you soon,
Chris Becker

 

Chris, could you shoot me some pics of the White? I'm guessing it not rodded? A friend is working on an '11.

 

Great Chassie work...more pics please!

 

200 Miles.

Thats how many miles I managed to achieve after finally getting the piece of crap back on the road.
The car left me stranded 120 miles from home, in the freezing cold and with a new girlfriend in tow. To say I was annoyed and EMBARASSED is an understatement.
Luckily I wasn't far from a fellow club members house from which I had just left. I was towed back and put up for the night among many other things and for that I am extremely grateful. Thanks Terry 'n' Anna!

Amazingly it wasn't the engine..... But the gearbox this time. With no warning I lost third and then the whole 'box locked up.

On getting home I immediately drained the car of fuel (£30/$60 worth, as I had just filled up!) and water, pushed it into my lock up garage, closed the door and walked away...

Well, several weeks later and a few failed attempts with buying a replacement vehicle, I got itchy feet to get the car fixed.

There was no way in hell I was pulling the engine to get to the 'box so I attacked it from the rear and pulled the rear axle instead.
What a pleasure it was doing it that way compared to pulling the engine.

After the stripping the 'box this is what was found to the problem. A completely destroyed 1st/3rd syncro ring. The syncro ring was the product of the problem as it was the syncro assembly that had sprung apart and caused the damage.



Why had this happened?
Turns out the F**KHEADS who had done such quality rebuilds on the other the mechanics and bodywork...... NOT, had decided when they rebuilt the '39 'box to not actually use '39 specific parts. This has led to all sort of weird and wonderful problems and has eventually led to the 'box destroying itself.

The 'box has now been rebuilt with '39 parts and is waiting to go back into the car, which currently looks more like a 4x4 than usual.

 

Enbloc,

Remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Chris- thanks for all the info- the White chassis looks great as well (the 3/4 eliptical srpings reminded me of a Stutz I got to work on some years back).

Pics will come when I can match my ideas with some $$$ and put them together in the garage , but I will either hammer the body myself (the TCad drawing is based on a RaceWay, but adjusted for my 6'6" height), or try to find a match to the pic of the fiberglass body below.

If you can, shoot some pics of your body and post them- maybe someone here can ID it for you. Also, check out 37kid's post on his Morton&Brett body that he picked up at Hershey this year!

Keep in touch and best of luck, Bill

 

Mac, can you post a pic of this body from behind? It appears to not have the normal ridge like a sprint car, kind of bulby or am I mistaken?. I like that. thanks

 

Sure,

Here are a couple pics- I absolutely LOVE this speedster!
It's also on www.nwvs.org

entry #69

I've tried contacting each of the officers to try to get info on joining the club and contacting the owner, but no one has reponded...

 

Mac and NobD here are pic of my folks and our 1913 white in 1977 before we started to restore it after the engine block got cracked when the water froze in the block. We are doing a driving restoration, we will be adding a slightly hotter cam and 1\4" taller pistons to give it a little more power.












Levi here are some detail shots of my chassis. The plans are from the same car as the photographs and are from the teens. As far as I know the car does not exist anymore and was last seen in Kansas circa 1920. This is not the body style that I want to use.



Mac, This is the body that I plan on copying. This is all I have about this body style is this picture. I am figuring out the rest on my own. I plan on hand forming it from aluminum. I am bringing the door line up so that it has doors that match the cowl line. It will have a '32 Roadster style top. With a Chris Craft brass 3 piece windshield with heavy rake to it. I want to put headlights on the fenders similar to an early '20s Pierce Arrow. Paint will be a deep Cobalt blue with a dark green pin stripes on the louvers, and polished stainless spokes with burnt orange rims and hub centers.

Chris Becker

 

Mac, I understand why you like this body, I especially like the way the back is formed. Chris, thanks for the pics of the White. It's good to see your family still has it after so long. That front end connection is killer. Where is the dark pic of the speedster from, I've seen that before?

 

Those pics are great- from the Murray Fahnestock books? I like the Morton & Brett Speedway body you chose as well- almost like 37kid's- you might want to PM him as he may be able to give you some measurements and dimensions.

Chris, thanks! The tail of the body is what did it for me as well- I need that height at the rear bulkhead, otherwise it would look like I was sitting in a kiddie car with my height!

Hey, did you guys see this on Epay some months back? This would be the other way for me to go- it's a great build!

 

Heres some pics of my summer project a 1920 C W Flyer which we are changing from friction drive to chain drive. Not really a four banger but what the hay a one banger anyway!!

NobD the dark picture has been posted before I can't remember where on the HAMB but it's been here.

Mac I didn't see that one on Ebay do you have more details on it? The big reason I like my body there are no straight edges. The back end of the boat tail looks round like the shape of a bullet all compound curves.

bill here's the write up I did for the NWVS club last year. Sorry but it's rather long but good info on what I did on my car with tons of help from several people...
The wheels you guys see in the photos are Houck #4 knock off racing wheels. I don’t have enough funds to purchase the original hubs so we went ahead and built our own. While I was at it I decided to adapt disc brakes to the front and rear. We needed to use the old wood wheel hubs to mount the Houck hubs to the spindle so an adapter plate was cut out and drilled to accept the rotor from a 1983 Nissan Pick up. This narrative covers the building of the hubs and adaptation of our setup. While we on the subject I will also add that we just installed a rack and pinion steering gear from a 1980 Subaru GL wagon so I will touch on that as well.
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I went ahead barrowed a single hub from a friend of mine up in Grass Valley, OR, to copy. I needed some help with the measurement and layout and a fellow by the name of Vic Nelson who was (recently passed away) a retired machinist helped with the measurements and in getting me started. Vic showed me how to set up the lathe and to cut the centering cones, external threads, and internal threads. After laying the measurements down on paper, I went down to Pacific Machinery and Tool Steel in Portland, OR, and purchased the right size steel round stock for the centering cones for the hub and caps. I want to say they are 4.25" in dia. but I would have to go measure the outside dia. of the cones.

We chucked the steel into our lathe, turned the cones into the base of the hub. Then we whittled the steel down to where we could machine the threads into the hub end. We machined external fine threads into the end of the hub for the cap.

The caps where done the same way except with internal thread. I needed an adapter plate to attach the hub itself and provide a place for the pins to be press fitted into. We burned a circular plate out of 1" steel plate. Then bored out the center hole so the Model T wood wheel hub would fit flush inside. We then welded the adapter plate and the hub base together to make one piece.
Finally I went to our large drill press and drilled the six holes in the adapter plate for the pins and turned the pins from some more roundstock, we had at the shop, and pressed them into the plate like the original. These steps were repeated four times to make a complete hub set.
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I still have to make the locking mechanism in the cap. I’ll have to slot the cap about an 1/8 “, and then build an L-shaped piece that can be pressed down with a spanner wrench while unscrewing the cap to remove the wheel.
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The disc brakes are off a 1983 Nissan Pickup. The rotors are mounted with six holes the same spacing as the model T wood wheel hubs. The only modification the rotor needed was to drill out the threads that were tapped into 6 mounting holes that mounted the rotor to the stock hub on the pickup. To get the rotors to turn true on the Model T wood wheel hub, we had to machine the inside face of the flange and the outside edges. The Model T hub fits into a recess on the backside of the rotor. This recess was raw casting so it had to be machined too. The Model T hub is press fit into this recess and bolted up to the rotor and the hub assembly we built.
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I tried to use the matching calipers on the front, but when we put it on the rotor and installed the wheel there was a clearance issue. I ended up with calipers off a 1997 Mercury Mountaineer to gain almost ¾” between the wheel center and the casting of the caliper.
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To mount the caliper to the spindles I made circular plates that cradle the cylinder with 2 threaded holes for the spring-loaded mounts. The mounting plate was then welded to spindle; you will have to pre-heat the spindle to about 400 to 500 degrees (I used a small toaster oven) to keep the heat affected zone form becoming brittle. When done welding bury the hot spindle and the plates you welded in dry sand. This will cool slowly and the parts will keep their integrity in the welded area.
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I am still working out the rear disc calipers. I still have the same clearance issue as the front. I also want cable-actuated emergency brake so we ended up using 1992 Chevy Lumina rear calipers. I have large backing plates on the back axle that I can use as a mount; all I’ll need to do is cut a ½ circular notch to hold the caliper.
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I just purchased the Master cylinder which came out of either a Ford Galaxy or Falcon, I don’t remember which but I do have the part numbers at the shop. There will be custom built mount that goes on the frame rail. I also need to modify the brake pedal by disconnecting it from tranny brake and then add a lever to the bottom of the pedal to push on the master cylinder.
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I’ll update this here I built a support bracket for the Warford 3-speed transmission that mounts the master cylinder between the frame rails. I made the support out of ¾” square tubing and welded on the L- shaped plates that hang the bracket on top of the frame rails.
I had to change the stock brake pedal out for an after market Rocky Mountain brake pedal. This pedal has a 1 ½” lever cast in the bottom of the brake pedal where it mounts in the transmission, this allows me to build a rod that extends the push rod to the master cylinder to make it work (the push rod was tortured to death with the heat wrench to make it clear all other moving parts).
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All in all it took us just a little over 8 months to build my hubs from scratch. This was the first big project on our Martin lathe. I needed to learn how to use the lathe, so what better way then build the parts I needed for my speedster. I also spent many hours over at our local parts store driving the part counter guys nuts. When I decided to weld the hubs to the spindles I ended up talking to the head metallurgist at Stack Metallurgical (a heat treating company here in Portland, OR) and gave me the idea of pre-heating the parts and slowly cooling them. I have been working on this setup for over 2 years now and there will be many adjustments to make it work, but it will be worth it in the long run.
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Newest development too the disc brake setup is I am going to redo the hubs themselves, instead of making them out of 2 pieces and welding them together I plan on making the whole hub out of one piece of steel. I am going to eliminate the wood wheel and machine
everything to be all contained and mounted to one solid chuck. The only problem is finding 4 pieces of round stock that is 9”dia. X 12” long.
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When we went to the NW Car Collector show this last October friend of mine (Roger Brown) told me to try out his rack and pinion steering set-up on his speedster. I loved it, it worked excellently and I was really impressed by it. Roger and Beryl Browns speedster uses a rack and pinion steering kit that is manufactured by a guy in Hood River, Oregon that is a direct bolt in the problem is I am lacking in funds to purchase the kit so I decided to build one for myself.
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During one of my dad’s restoration classes I ended up telling Gorge Holzem that I was looking for a small rack & pinion set-up for my speedster, come to find out Gorge works for Carr Subaru here in Beaverton and that he was parting out a 1980 Subaru GL wagon that just happened to have a non power rack in it. I said I was interested in it and he said he would bring it by next Saturday.
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When George brought the rack by we laid it out in front my speedster and it looked like it would fit with little or no modification. My friend Brian Walters and I took and measured it and when we loosened the lock nuts and turned the ball joints all the way in, and it fit perfectly.
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We were originally going to install around the wishbones behind the axle, but couldn’t figure out how to mount it to the axle with the way everything was mounted. It ended up being much easier to install in front of the axle. I built clamp style mounts that clamp around the axle and around the stock mount location on the rack. The clamps are made out 2” x 2” square tubing cut in half, 3/8 diameter Fine thread bolts were welded on to hold everything together. We just got done grinding the steering arm ends down so we could tighten the castelated nuts and install cotter pins in. We are still designing the steering shaft, which I think will incorporate one or two u-joints and sliding tube and shaft assembly to allow some movement so nothing binds. I’ll also have to figure out how to mount hand operate spark and throttle advance to it as well.
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I have to thank everyone that has helped me on this project, as it the largest one I have attempted.
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Resources:
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Tim Knapp (NWVS member)
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Don Shreve (NWVS member)
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Bob Rankin (NWVS member)
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Nick Nichlos (RCMTC club member)
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The book: Model T Speed Secrets: the Fast Ford Handbook (By Murray Fahnstock SAE
1921) Lincoln Publishing, Lock port New York copyright 1996
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Vic Nelson
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Stack Metallurgical
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Beaverton Auto Parts
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George Holzem
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Brian Walters
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And last but most importantly, dad Bill Becker
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Well, I lit up my B today. It fired right up and ran really well, consittering I did not really tune or dial it in. It did have a pretty bad rear main leak, so after I shut it down, we stood out run-in stand on end, and I removed the pan to plastiguage the rear main. Sawracer was right, too much clearance in the mains. I got them adjusted to 1.5 thousands, and had to stop to go out to dinner. Will button the pan on and fire again tomarow.

Heres the video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hNA2G_06cdI

 

Have you ditched the chap with the boy-band haircut then?


I've done best part of nowt this month. Literally nothing anyway, other than pull the pan off to sort the front seal. But that's all I've done, pull the pan. Might go and have another look at it today. Mebee. Been waaaay to busy (and then knackered) looking after my lad, who is now toddling around like a loon.

Found this on Youtube though, can't remember whether I've posted it before but I'll post it again....

 

No, you didn't. I did, months ago.

You Brummies are always a little slow...

 

One two miss miss. One two miss miss. Would that be a Fo or a rd?? Many years ago an old friend helped build a VW engine that was cut in half useing cylinders one and three. It ran smooth because the firing order is 1432. The engine was for a small airplane. Thanks for posting all the pics.

 

Sounds great! What is that head? Is it a repop? I slid my engine in yesterday but I have a way to go before I can fire it. I am partially paralyzed on my left side so it was quite a project doing it by myself. I figure that when I draw my last breath I will still have a bolt to tighten somewheres. When I find my camera again I will post a photo. Now I must go look for my left shoe.

Merry Xmas

 

Nah, it's just that I usually ignore your posts....

 

Powerwagon, Thanks for starting this months Banger Meet with the update on your project! I don't know if anyone has researched who made most of the speedster bodies back in the day but I think Morton & Brett made most of them. If you look at original speed equipment catalogs of T parts all manufacturers used the same illustrations, they may have swapped parts with each other. The black & white photo is fron a Fronty catalog the green ones are fron a Morton & Brett catalog. They were both based in Indy, so it was easy to do.

 

Thanks William,
I went with the SU-1R cam you recomeneded The head is a new 6:1 Winfield from Red's headers. What is your engine in?

 

37kid you wouldn't happen to have any rear views of it would you? I was thinking the back end would really round or would it come to a sharp point?

Thanks Chris Becker

 

I put the engine in my 29RPU. I will probably run a repop winfield crowsfoot that will be around 8 to 1 with a Winfield SU1A and will start with a single Winfield. I would like to run various different carburators to compare. Maybe from a "B" Winfield up to a "CC" then switch to single Strombergs. I need to satisfy my curiosity.

 

Yeah, I think that would be awesome...sort of compare to see what the best combo is! Keep us informed!

 

Chris, I don't have any literature with rear views, these two shots are of my Morton & Brett. The tail comes to a sharp point as you can see.

 

The apple don't fall far from the old tree then, eh?

 

Synchro rings...look at Rumbleseat's recent postings on those over on the V8 section of Fordbarn. Trouble...Joblot's limitless supply of NOS everything turned out not to be limitless, and now we have nice new Chinese rings.

 

Stolen direct from Rumbleseat, a very experienced Fordiste:

"As to end play........
The end play between the back of second gear and the thrust washer tolerance spec's are 0.004-0.008". Should it exceed 0.008" adjust through the use of shims between second gear and the thrust washer. Some guys, and I'm one of the guilty, often adjust this by using shims at the rear of the main shaft at the bearing because it's the way we learned to do them in the dark ages. When this exceeds 0.008", it will encourage jumping out of second gear under compression.
As to your brass synchro rings.... The ones available are lousy. They don't last more than a 100 miles or so before all kinds of strange sounds start... and it won't shift right. When you pull it down the 3 slots are worn off on an angle. I use old Ford ones which check out to be good. JMO.
...rumble seat ...
Yes, there is an easy test. You'll need a second gear or main drive gear (MDG).... either will work fine. Both are different beginning in '39. Use either '38 and older or '39 and newer... just so they're the same year as your transmission is.
The inside tiny rings that go around the inside of the brass synchro should be fairly sharp to the finger. Drag your finger back and forth (not around them) across a few to see the difference. When they're dull, the synchro is worn and will not slow the gear during shifting. The slots in the brass synchros (the synchro plates fit in them) have to be square and not beveled. Beveled... they're junk. A lot of the ones I see are beveled after a 100 miles or so... and are junk.
Hold the MDG in your hand. Push the brass sychro onto the tapered part of the rear pf the MDG. The brass teeth have to face towards the front of the MDG (the way they'll be in a trans). Push down on the brass synchro while trying to turn it at the same time. If you can turn it on the MDG, the brass synchro is no good.
The next test is to look to see if the bress synchro ring has a gap and is not bottoming against the MDG. It should have about 1/16" or so. If it touches the MDG, it's probably junk and will grind during shifts.
If all of the brass synchros touch the MDG, it could be a worn gear. Try using another MDG or second gear. Like all gears (not gearheads) they wear out.
Hope this is clear. Good luck.
...rumble seat ..."

Remember, Rumbleseat's great book is available online FREE, and though all engine stuff is V8, lots of good trans and chassis stuff is in there for the primitive folk.

 

Chris- thanks again for allof the info.

Wish I had more on the Ebay T- would love to have bid on it, but no cash in hand... it only went for around $6000!

I do remember that the body was wood. An older gentlman had put the car together over the years using parts from a variety of T years and traditional building techniques (you'll recognize the front suspension treatment). It just has great lines- here are some other pics of it.

 

Oops- sorry for the repeat pic- here are a few more: