So I know t-5s will fit on a y-block bellhousing with some minor modifications, but what about other maual transmissions.. Like a toploader for instance..
Toploaders are an almost direct bolt on. If ya get a real early one, it is a direct. Others can be made by simply turning the large OD of the front stub so it fits into the Y-block bellhousing. Some of the later ones may also need to have the bottom bolt holes drilled to mate up with the bell holes. I used the pressure plate and disk from a 302 with no modifications on my Y-block/toploader in my 29 PU because it was slightly bigger than the stock Y. But I'm sure either would work fine.
I've got a 272 out of a '57 truck with a BW T-10 behind it in my '48 Ford Tudor. The trans was out of a 289 powered '64 Falcon. To use it I had to turn the OD of the bearing retainer down to make it fit in the Y-block bellhousing then I had to lengthen the input shaft slightly to get full engagement into the pilot. -Bigchief.
I've got questions too regarding manuals behind a 292 Y-Block I've seen adapters to run the T-5, and I have seen the modifications you can do to the bellhousing to run a T-5. Anybody know what other changes (clutch pressure plate throwout bearing etc) are required? Also does anybody know if the Jeep or S-10 tranny would work? In my case I am installing in truck and could benefit from the longer shifter.
the clutch disc must match the spline on the trans . the pressure plate must bolt up to the flywheel and both need to be the same diameter ( 10 1/2", 11" ,etc.)throwout bearing and pressure remain he same the only change is the clutch disc
Revhead, It depends on which bellhousing you are trying to use....there are three common ones found behind Y blocks, not including the automatics. The passenger car bell is fairly easy to work with, but the two truck bells take a bit more effort. I can go a bit farther with this if you post which one you plan to use.....a long topic to cover all three. NUROADSIR, most of your answers can be found here: http://www.ford-y-block.com/truckt5.htm The clutch disc will be anything that matches your spline count, diameter, & clutch style preference. The T bearing is a specific unit, at least to use a newer pressure plate. The Mustang T-5 has a longer input shaft which matches the depth of the truck bells...I don't know whether the two mentioned have that same length.
Nuroadsir: A Jeep T-176 or 177 (4 speed) will bolt up the same as a Ford toploader; however, the Jeep trans then has a Dana 300 transfer case attachment, rather than a regular output tailshaft housing, Further, the Ford toploader gears will fit into a Jeep T-176 trans case (Aluminum vs cast iron).
I was thinking the newer style Jeep Cherokee's. These were available as in 2WD. Not as common up North, but that might make it the same tranny as the S-10?
In that case I have nothing in particular to add to what has already been said, except the following, which I stole from one of my own past posts....might be helpful, or not. "The car bell through '64 has a bearing retainer hole of 4.675" & the trans bolt pattern of '49-'64 car transmissions (sometimes called "high & narrow"). The input shaft length should be 6 1/2" for this bell."
so basically there are 2 bolt patterns.. early and late pretty much. T-5s use the late and need some modification to the bellhousing to fit, but have the correct input shaft length. T-10s and some toploaders(?) use the early and some have both.. but they might or might not have a long enough input shaft correct? How do you lengthen an input shaft? Turning down the bearing retainer seems fairly straightforward. Is there a definite cut off date for the early bolt pattern?
Car-wise....yes, two patterns, so far as three/four speeds go. The T-5 has a different pattern. So far as the T-5 & input lengths...the Mustang T-5 has a longer input than the GM version, which is why it works directly with the truck bell (with new bosses)....or, uses a separate adapter with the car bell, which is shallower. Look at the pics here http://www.ford-y-block.com/truckt5.htm & it will become a bit more clear. In '65, FoMoCo went to a bell depth of 6 1/2" & bearing retainer hole of 4.85" for all cars & light truck applications. I believe that's when the bolt pattern changed (slightly, as mentioned) at that exact time as well. As mentioned, for the most part it's pretty simple to use a Toploader....may or may not have to redrill a couple of holes, may or may not have to turn down the retainer a bit. I THINK (don't know for certain) that a '65-up B-W, FoMoCo version, will be much the same. As a rule, the input shaft either works as is, or it may need to be trimmed a bit, like 3/8". BigChief mentioned to me awhile back that the B-W shaft was a bit short...dunno exactly why, whether it's because it IS a B-W, or that it's a '64 SBF application, or if he used a deeper LD/MD/OD truck bell. Maybe he'll see this & elaborate. The two truck bells both have the 7 1/8" depth, but they are different from each other...and from the car bell. (See why I didn't want to go there?? )
Wow, cool. Thanks for all the info everyone. It helps a lot to narrow down what will be relatively easy and what is not.
I used a bellhousing from a '57 pick-up - the same one that the motor came out of. It was a running, driving truck with a hydraulic clutch (nice and easy to adapt to a hot rod). I assumed everything was correct for the '57 pick-up....but I could get casting numbers off the bellhousing if anybody is interested. There is an optional 11" clutch for the 289 4-speed powered Falcon so getting an 1-16"-10 spline 11" disc to match up with the 11" pressure plate was easy. The input shaft had to be lengthened about 5/8" of an inch if I remember correctly. There is no room for a modified/larger/longer pilot bushing to make up the difference in this application as the clutch center disc and springs are very close to the flywheel bolts. To lengthen the input shaft we counter bored the pilot end of the shaft and made up a piece of tool steel slightly larger (OD and length) with an integral stub that press-fit into the newly counter bored trans shaft. I believe the stub and counter-bore were about 1/2 inch long and 1/4" in diameter. The end of the input shaft and the stub-extension were significantly chamfered prior to pressing them together to allow for a bead of weld with good penetration. The two pieces were then pressed together and tig welded together. The weld area and stub end are then carefully cut back down to the correct OD. I got away with using a lathe and carbide tooling to do the work, the shaft material isn't that hard....but if the shaft material or weld area were any harder I would have had to use a surface grinder to resurface the shaft. If you need to have the shaft OD built up because of wear and/or a boo-boo during the machining process you can have the area spray welded and reground to the correct OD (or any size you want). I've got pics of the process....I should pony up and do the tech on it sometime in the near future. -Bigchief.
Excellent! That makes perfect sense. The trans should have the 6 1/2" input shaft; that bell will have the 7 1/8" depth, & the 4.675" hole. The 289 bell PROBABLY had the later, larger 4.85" hole to match the second iteration of the T-10; some '64s apparently did....thus the necessary turndown. I love it when puzzles work out. Next on tonight's agenda...world peace. Nice machining job, BTW. Ingenuity in action.
To rehash - you need two, maybe three mods to bolt up a top loader 4 speed to a YBlock CAR bellhousing. The input shaft is too long, about 3/8 of an inch (always measure your particular application before cutting)and the front bearing retainer must be cut down a sconch to fit in the Y Bell (Very early 64's had the same size). The third is the trans mounting bolts. Very early trans' had the same bolt pattern as the Y bell. The next generation had four holes at the top, two of them were the same as the Y. The next one had top holes that did not line up, but supposedly the trans had enough meat so you could drill the holes at the right location. Bottom holes in all were the same as the Y as far as I know. This is for the run of the mill toploader (289-390 engines). The 427 and 428 engines had a heavier input and output shafts, so mods may have to be different. Truck Y Bells are deeper in depth as others have mentioned. Follow their advice. You can use any clutch as long as the disc fits the input shaft and the pressure plate fits on the Y flywheel I have a top loader in back of a 312 in my 54. Had to do the bearing retainer and input shaft mods to make it fit. Got a clutch at my local parts store. Works great.
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