It has potential. Current problems: The allowed variance is too much. They need to be +/- 2.5 percent, not the current ten. It is corrosive -and- conducts electricity. Availablity, this one expains itself. We are going to need more of it. Public image. This may be the single biggest issue. No one seems to want to learn anything about it. Or they just don't pay attention. I'm constantly getting calls at the shop about E85, "Can I run E85 in my -insert whatever car" 'well, no, that car is not compatible' "But it's cheap!" "Why should I run E85, why do I not get better milage, why should I make rich farmers even richer(that has to be my personal favorite. richfarmers. I've personally never met one) I fail to see how people cannot grasp the fact that, even if you get two or three miles to the gallon less You aren't burning Foreign Oil. That's it. Right there. Brazil has been running E85 since the mid eighties. What is keeping others from following that example? Just imagine if We had done the same. Do you think we would be mired in the seemingly endless debauchle that is the War in Iraq? Thoughts? Alright, I have -that- out of my system, now to the question at hand. Is there an alcohol compatible kit for the Stromburg carborators?
I'm not a chemist .... But the local news has done two stories this year. One was about all the outboard motor shops flooded with work replacing carbs. The other was just a week ago about small engines like weed wackers & mowers failing.
Like I said, people don't seem to want to learn about it. "oh, hey. That thar pump has a yeller hose, and it be fifteen cents cheaper. I'll just go ahead and throw that in yonder fuel tank and not ask any questions. Then blame Co-op for my car breaking down. Lambda for E85 is around 9:1 AFR. 'Oh no, I'm running to lean and detonating and destroying engines. Better find someone to blame, because we can't have people taking responsablity for thier own actions'.
I'm a small farmer, who thankfully still uses some vintage gasoline powered tractors. I'm seriously considering some sort of ethanol production to cut fuel costs. Cellulosic ethanol is actually the best option, but I've noticed that most of that technology is being snapped up by the oil companies. We'll be paying the same people, the same amount of money, no matter what. I'm really looking at what compression ratio would be best for strict ethanol usage. Ethanol from grain makes sense if you are farming your own land. Too bad the spark ignition engine in tractors went the way of the dodo about 40 years ago. Not all farmers are rich. Most of the farmers I know worry whether they'll be able to keep the roof over their heads another year. You'd have to live it to know it. Fuel costs being the chief adversary to profit these days. The btu's per unit will always dictate the value of a fuel, ethanol isn't as btu dense as gasoline and as yet isn't priced to reflect that difference in btu value. I'm afraid we'll wind up paying more per thermal unit for the fuel if the trend I'm seeing now doesn't change. Hud
Ethanol: fun stuff, here in california there is no approved method for dispensing of E85 due to its corrossive nature. It also has a great cleaning nature (basically removing the accumulated gunk from the system, though not as good MTBE)
(Insert annoying buzzer noise here) WRONG! "A few miles per gallon less? I filled my wifes car with a tank of that shit on a recent trip to Denver. We drove across boring old flat-assed Nebraska and got 9 mpg LESS with E85. I filled up with E85 basically out of curiosity, I only saved like 4 bucks on the fill up and got 28 mpg. We got 32/33 religiously on every other tank. NOT a money saver. Do you know anyone who has served in Iraq? I mean 1st hand..... do you honestly know anyone who has served there? I know 3 people who are very close friends. 1 is a field medic and was my partner @ work for 2 yrs before he went. He did 2 tours, 2nd was a request. Never once referred to it as a debachle....... as a matter of fact, he will longer watch network news because of their bullshit handling of the coverage of what REALLY happens over there. Another friend is an MP. One tour. He was also in N.O. after Katrina. Told me he'd rather be in Iraq than ever go back to N.O. 3rd friend is just a "plain old Marine" (his words, not mine!) He cant say what he's doing. Have a little faith, would ya?
First off search e85 and/or ethanol and you'll find a whole bunch of threads on this subject, no real need to rehash it again.... You are running a gasoline engine on E85 of course it's gonna be worse. There is not a production vehicle made to run E85, merely gasoline engines that will and not well... I know plenty and depending on where they are the stories are different, but the thing is this is not the place to discuss it... No politics, no religion, let it drop....
No way am I going to give up oats! My horse just gets indigestion from that new fangled gasoline stuff! Oh, I forgot! N.H.R.A. TA FD is a slow class! "Rich farmer", now that's rich! WTF is a farmer???
When you consider the entire process from production to consumption, ethanol actually creates more polution than gasoline. And it takes a staggering amount of water just to produce each gallon. This is getting to be a big issue real fast. Plus you have reduced fuel efficiency, more wear on engine parts, and a host of other hassles. Bottom line is, ethanol is nothing more than a subsidy for farmers.
Uhhhh... that's bull... FUD along with most of your other arguements... <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HuOs1yap8mU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HuOs1yap8mU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
Yeah, I'm sure you 're an expert. I can point you to lots of articles to back up what I wrote. But I don't really care either way. Believe what you want.
So you can make unsubstantiated claims, someone replies with an oppposing arguement with evidence and you get an attitude, you must be a heck of a lawyer...
The s**t has nearly zero shelf life, boils off ( read hard to start) faster, and has warm weather evaporative issues. The rubber degradation issues have already been mentioned. Add in lower MPG, and it's not the "magic bullet" it's currently being touted as. Hopefully, as time goes by, these issues will be addressed...
You post an industry sponsored piece in support of your position, and then slam me? That's pretty funny. Why don't you dig out some NY Times articles to further bolster your argument? If you want to pay my hourly fee, I'll provide lots and lots of studies to back up what I wrote. As far as the wear factor, to start with, ethanol is hydroscopic, which means it absorbs moisture, which means oxidation, which means wear. Anything that's steel is going to wear faster when exposed to ethanol. http://www.ucc.ie/academic/chem/dolchem/html/comp/ethanol.html
First off why ya gotta yell? The rubber degradation is a non issue and has been for years, there has been up to 12% ethanol in gas for over the past 10 years here. No problems what so ever... The lower MPG is in engines that are designed and made to run straight gasoline. If you look on the web you can see what is starting to happen with engines being built specifically for e85. yeah alcohol has moisture and cold start issues, these are easily addressed, and already are. alcohol, wether ethanol or methanol is better off being made locally or at least regionally. North Carolina is already working on two of its own plants. They also need to be using other crops besides corn, and even just bio mass... the enzymes to use bio mass are already being manufactured, as a matter of fact one of the plants here in NC will be made to process bio-mass
Why should I pay you, back up your arguements or shut up. There is already ethanol and the associated moisture you're bitching about in the gas you're pumping into your car, so that pretty much throws that right out. I can show a lot more that shows the positives of e85. I would have to say anything you dig up can be disproved just as easily by who funded the study. You're Irish link on the properties of ethanol does nothing for me, already had that chemistry class...
I am? WOW! THANKS! According to the owners manual in my wifes new car............ it WILL run on E85 (read "flex fuel friendly") Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll just toss the owners manual in the trash. As far as my post..... the original poster wrote "a few miles per gallon less" as do most people who think ethanol is going to do something for this country. (and I did screw up. We got 24 mpg on E85, not 28 as I stated. Her car averages 32/33 mpg. normally) To save 4 or 5 bucks on a fill up of 15 gallons and travel 120/125 miles less? The stuff is crap.
yes we do....should take the money to vegas...least i could come home with something..you know, like an std!@
Decisions, decisions. Ignore the pissing match that has ensued, or not. I suppose I will forego the 'high road' this time around... Yes. I know several people that have served in Iraq. Air Force, Army, Marines and Navy. Also, people that served in the first Gulf War. I'm not certian why one has to personally know a serviceman or woman to be interested in global and national affairs. I personally cannot serve due to a physical ailment. "a few miles per gallon less" I wrote that. Because 'a few' is a non-specific term. It is going to vary in -every- senario. Example, my 89 K5 averaged two more miles per gallon on E10 as compared to regular. My 81 Crown Vic averaged three less. It's just the way it goes. Money issues. Buying a fuel that is based on locally produced commodities keeps your money local. In this case, local could be the entirety of North America. China, OPEC, WTO, and the EU have us over a barrell. If it costs me five dollars more to drive across this state, or milk and corn tortillias go up fifty cents or a dollar and it gets us off that barrell... I'm all for it. That all aside, fun reasons for running E85. Trying something new, a bit of a challange. That never hurt anyone. An engine with 12:1 compression and proper driveablility. Back to the engines and the cars, which is supposedlly why all of you are here. Has anyone with -acctual- experiance running E85 had to deal with timing issues? More advance maybe, due to a less 'violent' combustion event?
You said it yourself "it WILL run on E85" yes it will, but it is not designed to be an E85 engine, it is merely a gasoline engine that is adapted to be able to use E85, it's a compromise. It is not designed to take advantage of the high octane (105) of E85. They merely programmed the car to be able to change the jetting and timing far enough to run on it. If you were to build an engine to actually take advantage of E85 you would bump the compression at least a couple points at which time the engine really wouldn't like running pump gas. It's nice to be able to just pump either into the car but it really doesn't help the car make the most of the E85. I have an engine I've been putting together for E85. I'll have my choice with it. E85 or race gas. Even the 93 at the pump won't cut it.
I have read about it and the way i get it is it lowers performance and does require bigger jets or just opening up the main jet screw on older and smaller engines. it is like running on kerosene they will do it but not as efficient. It will ruin any old rubber that is not made for it. Very old vehicles/tractors and engines will run fine since most have no rubber in the fuel system and are built for low actane fuel. Also modern engines that have been designed for it are fine . The problem is with what we mostly have engines from the late 30s to the mid 80s they have a rubber compound in the seals and hoses that is ruined by alcohol unless thay have been updated to more modern rubber. This is also true for outboards and chain saws etc. One other thing it melts JB weld so it it is used for a repair you are in bad shape. It also loosens any gunk in the tank or lines and then it stops up the carb. most older cars are better off without it unless all rubber has been changed and everything cleaned out.
I run my model A on E85. But the motor was built specifically for it. You need LOTS of compression to make e85 fire correctly, and your carb (or carbs) have to be set up specifically for e85 also ( you cant just up the main jet sizes). If your worried about gas mileage.....buy a fucking honda...the words Hot rod and gas mileage shouldnt be spoken in the same sentance. Bottom line...Gas is expensive, and its gonna get worse. I'd like to be able to drive my car 20 years from now, plus it runs 30 degrees cooler on e85, and a correctly built motor will make about 6% more power on e85..... Plus....its really fun to watch people rubbing their eyes and coughing when they crowd around your alcohol spewing hot rod....
The number of E85 threads popping up in these last few days is encouraging. I think that is what will make it work as a fuel. Guys fucking around with it, making it work for them. If, for no other reason at all, just to do it. Those of us that are interested in, or already running E85, stay vocal. Let the rest of us know how it's working out, what you've had to do to make it work. Anyone interested in a Hydrogen Reformer? My K5 averaged nineteen MPG for four hours. Then the fun started.
The Jalopy Journal
