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Old 06-19-2007, 07:48 PM   #1
Lucky77
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Default How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Maybe that's how I should've titled my current thread regarding my tudor titling woes. Here's the story: Last July a local guy has a rusted out hulk of a 30-31 tudor shell in the back of his pickup with a price and phone number spray painted on it. I buy it, no title, no bill of sale, he drops it off. I build a frame, rip the rear axle out of a fiend's truck and stick the engine/tranny from my racecar in it. There is no VIN, it was just a body with no identification whatsoever. The tags on the firewall were missing/ corroded beyond recognition. I bought a title from a junked car so now I have a serial number from a junk tudor and my new tudor with no VIN. What do you do when you buy an old body from a farmer that's been sitting in his field for 60 years and has no VIN? I'm in serious panic mode here thinking I put so much work into this thing and I might not be able to register it.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:55 PM   #2
buffaloracer
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Check with some of the restorers. I've heard tales of new brass vin tags.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky77 View Post
....................I have a serial number from a junk tudor and my new tudor with no VIN...............
Um, someone answered your VIN question in the other thread.....and you just answered your own question. The paperwork has the VIN since the frame needed major reconstruction to make it safely operable.......right? That's gonna be my story anyway, if anyone asks.

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Old 06-19-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
RClark
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

The main thing you should keep in mind is your actions and/or demeanor at the tag office. If you go in with what you believe to be correct paperwork then you need to act like there is no problems and you should be very surprised if they give you grief. If you go in asking if the paperwork you have is correct you've given them more of a reason to question it. I'm not saying that you won't have to jump through a few hoops to get it done. Just try to have everything in order when you go.
If all else fails, I've been known to go to the next state over to get title work done.(in my case Alabama) Just rent a post office box so you have a mailing address in that state. Sometimes it can be a lot easier in rural towns too.
Oh, as far as your original question, you can't title a vehicle without a vin #. Get a new one with the year on it if yours doesn't cut it.
Good luck.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:25 PM   #5
brandon
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffaloracer View Post
Check with some of the restorers. I've heard tales of new brass vin tags.
ditto...i think early ford has them .....i did a 40 chev coupe back in the winter......it had a trophy shop brass tag with engraved vin number...what ever you do ...make sure to use your best poker face...... brandon
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

i thought the vin number was stamped on the frame on a model a ...? brandon
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky77 View Post
... The tags on the firewall were missing/ corroded beyond recognition...
The numbers used for vehicle id are only in 2 places:
On the engine.
On the frame. (top of driver's frame rail under the cowl)

NO ID NUMBERS WERE PUT ON THE BODY.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:45 PM   #8
Lucky77
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Okay so lets forget about any of the frames, titles, or body tags I have. Since there is no I.D. on a model A body what's the best way to title it if all you have is an original body and all new aftermarket stuff? Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jackass but something's not clicking in my brain as to the best course of action.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

1.Get a Vin #. Hint: its on the paperwork that your gonna purchase.
2.Stamp it on the frame. Or put it on a brass tag and mount it. If you put it on the brass tag and you get a knowledgeable title clerk it may be questioned.
3.Go to tag office and use your best poker face.
4.Enjoy your legally titled and taged Model A.
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:09 PM   #10
monzadood
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

try getting a title from the state of michigan. that will save you alot of headaches.
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:10 PM   #11
erock805
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

does your state offer a 3rd party tag agency...if so go there not the state one..
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Lucky there is a statute dealing with assembled vehicles in Michigan. go to Yahoo and look up assembled vehicle Michigan and it should take you to the the Michigan.gov site. If not go to Michigan.gov and type in assembled vehicles-they do not take kindly to playing with tags,just so you know. It will walk you thru the way the statute requires. They issue you a new tag -should not be too difficult-you are not the first with this problem. -Jim
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:05 PM   #13
Lucky77
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdillon View Post
Lucky there is a statute dealing with assembled vehicles in Michigan. go to Yahoo and look up assembled vehicle Michigan and it should take you to the the Michigan.gov site. If not go to Michigan.gov and type in assembled vehicles-they do not take kindly to playing with tags,just so you know. It will walk you thru the way the statute requires. They issue you a new tag -should not be too difficult-you are not the first with this problem. -Jim
Just checked it out and there's only one problem. I have a fabbed up chassis that I built from pieces of tubing bought at my local Alro. There is no VIN stamped on my frame. The website said "Engines, transmissions, and frames all have VIN numbers......" I'm starting to feel like an idiot for wasting everybody's time but I'm not getting it. Where does this VIN magically come from?

DamnedReverend said "Hint: it's in the paperwork you're going to purchase." What is this paperwork? Is getting a VIN the first step, and if so how the hell do I do it?
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

i went and checked out the site jimdillon pointed out and it didnt say about the frame vin # but if i were you i`d go down to the cop shop and ask them who issues vin #'s, you would think the same place that issues vin #'s for home built trailers would issue home built car #'s to.
ok so i think this is what you have to do

4. All assembled vehicles require a state-assigned vehicle identification number (VIN). There is a $10 fee for this.

looks like a vin will cost you $10

Last edited by budd; 06-19-2007 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Having the vehicle inspected will require a form TR-54 to be completed. This lists what is required to be a driveable vehicle in Michigan. And yes, that includes wipers, turn signals, etc. I went through this process about 15 years ago trying to get a VIN tag made to replace a damaged one. This was on a '69 Valiant and I had to prove everything required worked, including the signals, all lights and the wipers. This was completed by the Michigan State Police who were kind enough to stop by where I worked (thanks to a friend who was a Detroit cop).

The way this car was built, you are correct about not being able to drive it. It's important to find out what you need before you begin. A junk title will not work, because you'd still need to have the 'repaired' car inspected before the state would issue a 'salvage' title on it. It also pays to know what the vehicle requirements are before building the car. Some states require fenders and will not sign off without the fenders being on the car. That car will look great with the bumpers just below the rear window and on top of the radiator .

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but you need to work within the system. Most states have figuired out that out of state title companies equal fraud. The reason the state wants to know where the parts came from and a bill of sale are to make sure that the car parts are, A) not stolen, and B) so that you can pay your sales tax. If it cost you $5000 to build that car, the state wants it's $300 (6%) in sales tax (just like buying a regular car). It's far better to have a car with title transfered before doing all this, because then the sales tax on $100 is just $6.

I've seen guys who invested large dollars into a hot rod to find out later that the car had been stolen and stripped. It's not fun to blow money on a nice car and then have to give the car to the cops when you transfer everything at the end and find out you don't own it . I wish I had an answer for you, but I wish you good luck!
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:20 AM   #16
divco13
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

When I titled my roadster ,I bought A valid title and stamped the number in the frame rail my self. Their is not one ford part on the car! 18 years ago I paid for a title from a guy named CharlesWalcutt, He had a add in Street Rodder for ! $150. I do belive the titles are good for ever on the older car's, as back then you did not need to turn in the titles when scrapes, As they were left in the corn field rot away.

Last edited by divco13; 06-20-2007 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Very bad spelling
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:43 AM   #17
unklgriz
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

When I was looking at doing this for my '35 Chev. I went down to the Sherrifs office and asked what to do. Here in Montana all you do is call the Sherrif up and make an appointment with the VIN person,(yes we have a person that does only VIN checks) and they come out with they're stamping kit and issue you a new VIN. That is mainly for the older cars that don't have the VIN stamped on the body.


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Old 06-20-2007, 08:02 AM   #18
jrblack30
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

Does the title that you walked into the DMV with have any VIN numbers on it? If yes then stamp that number in your frame rail and then apply for lost title with the same numbers you just stamped into the frame.

I have bought a title from the scrapper before that had scrap written on it before. I tore the corner off the document and I ran through the washer and worked the paper until it was ragged and worn out. I took the document to the DMV and presented them with it and a reciept that I had a friend make out for me. I walked up to the counter presented my paperwork, she asked what is this I said it was the title for the car I just bought and my wife ran it through the wash. I asked the woman if their was anything that could be done to title this vehicle she replied shure " ALL I NEED IS A BILL OF SALE AND A VALID VIN NUMBER". She read off the VIN from the ragged title and comfirmed it to the bill of sale and I was in buisness. Paid the tax and walked out with title 40 minutes later.

It all in the approach and not trying to get away with to much.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:28 AM   #19
Carl E. Hagan Jr.
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

I'm in KC Ks & just went through the same thing. Total runnaround. But I had outta state title which signed / notorized clean. Thus inspection needed. DMV said 2 of 3 main components not original. Aftermarket frame & 350 small block. Thus, hired attorney to file "Quiet Title" which is me suing DMV. I proved I purchased the car, had the paperwork, the judge gave me a court order thus ordering the state of ks to re-number my car as 2007 assembled vehicle.

It was either that, or show every damned receipt for everything. Or take the car back.

I possibly could've loop holed the system by getting a KS tag & then no inspection would be needed. But, if I ever sold the car to someone outta state, then the mess would fall in their lap.

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Old 06-20-2007, 08:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: How to title a car with no VIN??????????

I'm not from Michigan, but it seems pretty straightforward to me.

Instructions from the Michigan DMV on assembled vehicles.

The TR-54 form.

From the DMV Website:

Quote:
Assembled Vehicles Some owners want to know how they can title and register an assembled vehicle. An assembled vehicle is:


1. One built (assembled) from new or used materials and parts by someone not recognized as a manufacturer (usually an individual). Example: homemade vehicle.
2. One altered or modified to the extent that it no longer reflects its original manufacturer configuration. Example: a Volkswagen made into a dune buggy.
3. One which has had its body replaced with that from another vehicle. Example: pickup truck has its cab replaced.
4. One assembled from a kit (often called "kit cars"), even if a Manufacturers Certificate of Origin is provided.

Procedure to title an assembled vehicle:

1. You will need ownership documents for all vehicles or major component parts used in assembling the vehicle. This includes:
  • Titles
  • Assigned ownership documents (example: Release of Abandoned Vehicle notice from police department)
  • Original bills of sale
The following parts must be accounted for in the ownership documents presented:

Motor Vehicle Engine, Transmission, Body Parts (doors, front and rear clips), Frame including axles.
Motorcycle Engine, Frame, Front end assembly including the fork, Wheels, Seat
Titled Trailer or Trailer Coach Running Gear (frame axle and wheels)

You will need to bring these documents to the branch office.

2. You will also be asked to complete a certification statement summarizing the building of the vehicle. It should include:
  • A description of the vehicle and its parts,
  • Who assembled the vehicle,
  • When and where it was assembled or reconstructed,
  • Any special information about the vehicle to assist the investigator.
3. A Vehicle Number/On-Road Equipment Inspection (form TR-54) completed by a police officer must be submitted. The inspection will verify the vehicle has all equipment required for on-road registration.
4. All assembled vehicles require a state-assigned vehicle identification number (VIN). There is a $10 fee for this.
5. When you apply for your assembled vehicle title, tax is due on all parts unless paid at time of purchase.
6. A license plate cannot be sold until the Department's Investigations Division places the assigned VIN sticker on the vehicle and releases the new title to the owner. This will usually be about eight weeks from the time of title application. The Investigations Division will contact you for an appointment, usually at a local State Police Post or Secretary of State branch office. A 30-day or 60-day permit may be purchased if you need to register the vehicle before the Investigations Division places the new VIN sticker on the vehicle.
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