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Old 03-21-2007, 05:45 PM   #1
Mark
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Default Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I spent some time with the searching old threads, and half the time im not sure what type of paint people are talking about. I imagine different paints should be buffed differently

we sanded the clear urethane with 1500, and i have a wool pad, gallon of fine compound, (i forget the brand) and a waffle pad and a bottle of polishing "swirl remover"

Use the compund with the wool pad and the swirl remover with foam pad? IS the waffle pad good for use with the swirl remover?
which brings me to the question : Whats the difference between a waffle foam pad and a smooth foam pad? Are tey used for different things?

My old man an I have color sanded and buffed cars before, but they were always "drivers" , not something that we actully wanted to come out as nice as possible. lol
Any helpful hints will be appreciated.

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Old 03-21-2007, 06:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I've always used the Perfect-It III system. But for your setup, your right. wool/compound, then foam/swirl remover. The waffle pads dont shoot the compound all over as bad, and they might keep the clear a little cooler. Just remember not to get it hot, and do any high spots or crowns by hand.
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I'd look into the DA sanding systems. I've been using Norton, and finishing with 3000. Well worth the money, and saves hours with the buffer.
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:26 PM   #4
Roothawg
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Tinbender. We have the "3M Hookit system but are kinda scared to use it. Afraid of cutting through. Is the 3000 all you use on it?
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I stick with 3M, use their compounds and pads. the guy at the paint store should be able to steer you straight. I cant remember the colors of pads now. I prefer the waffle.
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Old 03-21-2007, 08:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I always start with #1500,then #2000.I use a black wool pad with the extra cutting coumpound from Presta,next I switch with a blue wool(find it's faster than the waffle)with the glaze and finish with the swirl remover.
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I polish every day. I think it all depends on how long the clear has cured for depends on how it is sanded and polished.

We use dupont urathane clear. I also like the 3M perfect it. We use 3M 1500 hook it 2 dry on a DA sander with an inter face pad. It is the fastest way to sand I think. We try to sand and buff the cear with in 24 hours. The compound will cut better and the clear will polish up faster.

If you wait too long then the clear is a lot harder to polish and harder to get the sand scratches out. The prefect it 3000 is great for sanding out the 1500 sand scratches. It is more time comsuming to sand it again but buffs up faster in the long run. Also looks better too.

I still wet sand when I wan't to be anal and make it perfect but then your hands start bleeding from all that sanding. I still like going over it with 3000.

Buffing pads I like are 3M white wool for cutting compound and 3M black foam waffel pad for swearl mark remover.
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Thanks for the responses! I have a little more confidence now. Ill try and post a pic if it comes out good.


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Old 03-21-2007, 10:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I didn't see anybody post that the yellow wool pads are for polishing after the white pad for cutting then go to the waffle foam pad after the yellow wool pad
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Just so you know there are other ways to do it.....and I prefer this way.
I wait about a month before sanding and buffing...or else I just do a REAL quick, light sand with 800 the first week, then finish up 3 weeks later. That way I do not have any "die-back", or flattening, fogging, shrinking of the paint when I'm done. Yes, it's MUCH easier to do it the first couple days, but the paint continues to cure/dry and it does flatten out, and shrink a bit, and you wind up resanding and buffing again later, if you really like a nice finish.
So, I start with 600 or 800 wet, any finer than that, and I see that it just smooths over the orange peel, instead of really flattening it. I use a hard rubber block for most of this, and whatever curved blocks I need for special contours. Just a light cut to get it flat. Then go to 1000 grit wet again, hard block, or hard sanding pad, going over it very well to remove the scratches form the previous step. You should spend about 3 times as much time on this step, as you did on the previous one. Next, 1500, using a soft pad. Not as labor intensive as the 1000 grit step. If the color is very dark, I go to 2000 grit.
Buffing, I don't really like wool pads any more. They make foam pads specifically for compound. I use Perfect-It 3, Extra cut, on a hard foam pad. Then go to Meguire's #2 with a softer, polishing foam pad, waffle is good here. Finish machine buffing with Meguire's #9 and a very soft foam pad. If you want it even nicer (or if doing black), use a hand glaze with a microfiber or cotton baby diaper, by hand next.
Tips...I put a long piece of Tygon tubing on the end of mt garden hose for wetsanding, so the metal end can't scratch the paint.
Keep the water running while wetsanding, any paint removed can get lodged in the paper, and scratch the paint.
Use a bucket of water to soak the sandpaper and to dip into once in awhile to clean the paper. I put a little Ivory soap, or carwash in it to help lube the paper, and keep the sanded paint from sticking to it.
Wash the car in between steps, so you don't cross contaminate. Can cause scratching.
Use a rubber squeegee to help remove sanding residue. Also helps dry the surface so you can see how much paint you've removed in your first sanding steps. (Keep sanding until all the shiny spots are gone, and the paint will be flat)
Put tape over sharp edges, or body lines so you don't over sand, or overbuff and remove the paint. It's REAL easy to do!
Don't stay in one spot too long while buffing, you can burn the paint. Right down to primer or bare metal!
Clean the buffing pad often. Build-up of compound will slow the buffing process.
Spray detailer and a soft detail brush will remove sanding/compound residue inside door jambs, and truck edges. Just don't let it dry there too long.
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Old 03-22-2007, 07:57 AM   #11
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

I polish nearly everyday and have tried almost every brand, and what we use now is a company called Farecla. It is by far the best compound I have used. I hate to polish and it has cut my rubbing time down. It holds the gloss and will not die back like 3m can. You can pick up the whole kit, two parts, for about $100, but money well spent. If cars have to go we can rub after about a couple of hours and have ho worries. It will take your 1500 sratches out no problem.
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Chopolds, did we go to the same school of buffing?
THAT'S darn near the same way we do stuff around here. 800 dry/DA/no interface pad, 1200/DA/wet/ interface pad, finger sand wet with 1500(hey, I double my paper and fold it twice so it's stiff! ) Right now, cutting with white wool and 3M extra cut III(and the "new" formula sucks IMHO), then polish with black waffle and swirl remover.
I'm fixin' to try the Meguiars Solo stuff(one compound, 4 different pads )---just haven't found the right guinea pig yet.

True, sanding the first time and waiting for complete curing before finishing will 99% of the time eliminate ALL shrinking and dieback(IF you did your bodywork correctly and used quality primers/fillers)

I like shiny paint
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Old 03-22-2007, 08:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

But you guys are talking about bc/cc only ...yes?
I am pondering going back to a single stage metallic on the 50 and I am scared I might get into the metallic........

I have the option of clearing over the particular paint while it is still hot so should I do this just to make sure I have enough build?
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:13 AM   #14
chopolds
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Yeah, Earl...we're "Old School". Lacquer, I used to do a buff at one month, and wait and finish up after another month! That stuff would keep shrinking for over a year! BUT, you could do a 600 cut, and one or 2 steps buffing, and it looked like a million bucks!
Root, I definately do NOT recommend using a SIngle Stage for metallics. Especially if you intend to buff it out. BC/CC doesn't cost WAY too much more, shop around. I've been using smartshoppers. for my HOK stuff. Great prices, they sell other brands as well. After all the time you spend on welding, bodyowrk, sanding, don't skimp on paint quality, if it's an old car. Maybe on a daily driver, but not a nice old car.
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roothawg View Post
I am pondering going back to a single stage metallic on the 50 and I am scared I might get into the metallic........
What happened to single stage black, Root?

and no.....don't ever be thinkin about cut/buff on a single stage metallic.......unless it's lacquer, and you've sanded between coats about ten times
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Old 03-22-2007, 12:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Root, I haven't broke thru with the DA sanding systems at all. I use the same system on solid single stage, but like the others, I use clear coat over metallics.
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by earl schieb View Post
What happened to single stage black, Root?
We found a wierd color that we like that kinda looks like a mid-50's GM color. Besides.....I'm not that good of a bodyman.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

It doesn't appear that this question (tips on buffing) has been addressed in awhile, so I'd like to pick you expert brains on this once again. I'm a novice painter with BC/CC and have recently used the following materials: Basecoat-Dupont ChromaBase, Clearcoat-ChromaClear 7900S, colorsanding - both hand wetsanding starting with 1000 grade, and 3M purple finishing discs on a DA, polishing - 3M Perfect it system with foam waffles.

I am having 2 problems. #1, the orange peel is very hard and very difficult to get rid of. Its all but impervious to hand sanding. I have tried the 3m discs both wet and dry, and although the dry works a bit better, (with cleaning off of the residue ever 5 seconds or so), the discs wear out very quickly and it is very slow going. Is this ultra-resistant clear the result of my having waited about a month after painting to get started with sanding, rather than sanding after a couple of days? Any tricks with dealing with this problem?
#2 - I can't get the brilliant shine of the original clear back with the 3M Perfect it system. I drop a dime sized dollop of material on the surface and buff away with the intended foam waffles at a low speed (my variable buffer doesn't have the actual RPM to choose from, but I set it to the low end of its range), but at best, I achieve a smudgy glow, certainly no mirror shine. Not enough buffing? Not enough material? Too much? Any suggestions appreciated.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: Tips on Buffing Urethane basecoat/clearcoat?

[QUOTE=nimrodhaas;7703387]It doesn't appear that this question (tips on buffing) has been addressed in awhile, so I'd like to pick you expert brains on this once again. I'm a novice painter with BC/CC and have recently used the following materials: Basecoat-Dupont ChromaBase, Clearcoat-ChromaClear 7900S, colorsanding - both hand wetsanding starting with 1000 grade, and 3M purple finishing discs on a DA, polishing - 3M Perfect it system with foam waffles.

I am having 2 problems. #1, the orange peel is very hard and very difficult to get rid of. Its all but impervious to hand sanding. I have tried the 3m discs both wet and dry, and although the dry works a bit better, (with cleaning off of the residue ever 5 seconds or so), the discs wear out very quickly and it is very slow going. Is this ultra-resistant clear the result of my having waited about a month after painting to get started with sanding, rather than sanding after a couple of days? Any tricks with dealing with this problem?

Hey,

How dry is the last coat of clear, lots of dry spray? I'd drop down to 800 wet & dry on an ''idiot stick'' with lots of water and dish soap. Crosshatch your sanding pattern to catch all the peaks of the peel. I'm stuck in the dark ages, and still use a yarn type cutting pad, and lay into it hard with a course compound, if your on your game, this will save you some time. 1500 wet & dry will pull out the remaining scratches, unless this is a deep based colour in which case you may well have to go the whole route up to 3000 grit The 3M polishing compound, the one with the yella cap, is just ok on a black foam waffel pad. I still like good old carnuba paste wax for a killer/deep final finish, but it's no easy day in the park!

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Old 04-25-2012, 07:02 PM   #20
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Default

We do the same thing..... 800..... 1000..... 1500..... 2000.... 3000....... all wet except the 3000 we use the purple 3M trizac paper..... All 3M perfect it compounds and glaze.... We use an orbital buffer to cut down on the "swirl" marks...... I know it seems like a lot of water sanding but when you are after " the look" it is well worth it...... Also use the 3M powder guide coat between each grit of water sand....... Good luck and stay off those edges..... Try taping those edges while your buffing.........
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