i'm looking for some pictures of del baxters #20 track roadster but mainly any 27 track roadster that had the motor set back into the cowl what i need is some interior shots how they did the pedals, the steering, the firewall, etc this car #20 was driven by troy ruttman and pat flaherty i have alot of pictures of the outside but im trying to figure out the rest of the details a picture from the back showing the trunk lid and turtle deck would be helpful too i'm trying to figure what steering most of these guys ran, what rearends...etc I'm looking for the aspects of a car that would have been run in 1947 the time directly after they were full size "hot rods" im thinking in 47 they would have still had the 3 speed tranny in the cars and the stock banjo rear from what i read there were very few if not only one in/out boxes in 47 in 46 a street roadster could have been competative but apparently not so in 47 also, does anyone know why they seemed to split the rear wishbones on almost every car....and how did this work with a torque tube? anyways please let me know what you may have i do have the 2 don radbruch books and dick wallen's...are there any more? thanks Zach <--- I need a right side 26/27 door by the way!!
You need access to the first two years of H.R.M. The magazine was heavily into the track roadster/circle track thing in the beginning.
Thanks Dale, i didnt even think to look there for this "racing" stuff they were on the covers and everything....why didnt i think of that!!! I'll search tonight hopefully they have some info similar to 47 style cars.... im not sure if by 48 or 49 that they were too "racing specific" for what i am hunting thanks Zach
thanks clark, that car looks really advanced...almost like a sprint car with a T body..but still has some ideas i can use thanks alot zach
Zach - the split rear 'bones were most likely a result of trying to lower the center of gravity of the car; splitting the wishbone lets you Z the rear more without the radius rods running into an interference problem with the frame. This also adds some articulation. Geometry is such that the pivot points HAVE to be in line with the torque tube pivot point - otherwise the bugger will bind. Only other possible explanation is open drive - but I doubt that was common in '47.
chuck, thats a good thought on geting it low i was told by a friend who used to race track roadsters that the axle centerlines and the crankshaft centerline should all be on the same plane for the best possible handling i was concerned with the split bones twisting on the tubular rear axle...but i guess it would work somewhat like a sway bar so it might be a good thing thanks zach
The very first H.R.M. had the Reggie Schlemmer car on the cover and a short bio sketch of Reggie inside. While most of those who have seen that copy and (maybe) remember the the car recall it as a dry lakes runner, it was actually a dual purpose car. The car appeared on the January '48 issue by virtue of it's exploits in October 1947. So it is a rather vivid example of 1947 technology. The description in the text indicates a quick change and an in-out box. As a side note, in the spring of '48 Reggie brought the car to the Midwest and ran it in some Hurricane events (Andy Granatelli's outfit) and several Mutual Racing Association events in east central Indiana. The car was sold to a guy in Muncie but it disappeared soon after. The March '48 issue featured Don Blair's car which, again, was 1947 technology. This car had an in-out box and a quick change. The May issue featured Bert Letner's "Elco Twin" which, again, had a quick change and an in-out box. The July issue featured Rudy Ramo's car which had both the in-out box and Q.C. plus Franklin steering. It's also mounted on a '32 frame. I realize that the car on the June '49 cover is a little advanced from your time frame of interest but what's nice is the detailed photo essay of the construction plus the Rex Burnette cut-a-way. Pissano and George didn't use a Q.C. Rear but they DID use a Q.C. in-out box. (Those things were a pain in the a--. They got so hot you couldn't change gears between T.T. and racing [or between races] without burning your fingers plus they had a habit of loosening up and disengaging the pinion from the internal ring gear while you were running.)
thanks alot dale! i see in your profile that you attended the races in 1950... i wish i had been able to do that you dont have nay home movies or anything do you? I'd really like to build one of these cars but i cant afford the in/out and the quick change...so im trying to pick a period when they still ran mostly old ford parts but not just a stock car my parts pile consists of a flathead v8 3 speed and a banjo 32 pontiac frame and most of a 27 roadster body I'm gona cut the frame down alot to about the size of a 32...maybe a bit shorter wheelbase I'm just thinking right now...but when i do go about building the car i want to do it right...so i need to pick the correct time frame and then stick to it with every detail possible i cant seem to find one of these stuck in a barn...so im just gona have to build it! thanks alot Zach
Trying to find a real track roadster in a barn has been a dream of mine for may years. I think the problem relates to the evolution of the breed. Their brief flirtation with fame expired in about '53 (at least in the Midwest). The reallywell built cars at that point became sprint cars; the rest put out to pasture while the "Hard top" and sportsman stock cars took over the scene. It wasn't long however before the cheaters in the stock ranks pushed the rules envelope so far that "modifieds" popped up. This gave a lot of guys an excuse to resurrect their old roadsters and turn them into Modifieds. So, the roadsters either returned to the wrecking yards they were born in or evolved into other forms of race cars. I believe that's the main reason track roadsters are seldom found. It's too bad you didn't develope this interest a little earlier-you could have visited the old Dick Frazier #32 while it was on display at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing at Latimore Valley-not far from you. Alas, the car is now back in the basement of the Smithsonian where it will probably remain out of view for the next 50 years.
Hey Zach, If you have '51-'52 Hot Rod mags there are a few featured, also check out some stuff I have scanned http://users.bigpond.com/designjp/hotrodmags.html & http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v605/jimmyschev/Hot%20Rod Mag/?start=all I have more to add once I get around to it. Cheers Jimmy
dale, i did get to look at dick fraziers car on numerous occasions....unfortunately i wasn't AS into the track roadster then atleast not enough to really study the car there is another track car in there now called the Biro Roadster supposidly ran in the midwest but its not much as a stock roadster body anymore... i believe its 30/31 quarters cut down and thats all heres some pics
My car looks somewhat like the 20 car from the front. I have a 29 A body though. My car is period correct to 1948 in the northwest. I have lots of pics of inside and under the car. I can email some if you want. I used a 50's vintage sprint car chassis and adapted the roadster body to it. Much easier and CHEAPER than building a car from scratch. Pete
jimmy, your link doesnt seem to work for me?? and pete, i would love to see some pictures my e-mail is [email protected] thanks Zach
sorry about that! I had the album set as private it is set as public so should work now. Cheers Jimmy
thanks kev, I'll hunt that down maybe i should continue my magazine collection past 1955 looks like theres some not too bad stuff in the 70's! Zach
The Mark Biro car in your pictures was originally the Frank Weirzbecki roadster from Peninsula, OH. It was one of the better built cars of the Ohio/Indiana Roaring Roadster era and shared many of the "Midwest" traits. Model A bodies were common and filled fender wells along with cut down doors were typical. Generally even the best built cars in the Midwest did not have "the look" like Del Baxter's, Jim Rathman's, Jack McGrath's, and Phil Weiand's. Indiana cars tended to be built like "Funny cars"-the bodies were shifted back on the chassis for better weight bias. This in turn called for filling the fender well if the owner was concerned with appeance. The cut down doors/body sides were either a concession to safety or to emulate the look of the "big cars". The best looking cars in the old Mutual Racing Association here in Hoosier Land were the ones built by Hack Winingear: The Frazier #32 and the Tom Cherry #38. Both were basically '27 "T"s with Sprint style noses (although #32 actually had a '36 Pontiac grille shell.) Californian's created the "ultimate" concept of the track roadster: '23 or '27 "T" mounted "straight-up" on '32 frames with shortened '32 radiator shells and set back engines.
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