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Old 01-08-2007, 03:58 PM   #21
Chopped50Ford
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Wow John.

I understand your feelings on the matter.

I have a boat load of HF tools, pheumatic and metal shaping (post dollies). I have not seen any issues with any of them thus far; as long as you dont abuse them... As for Hammers and hand tools...yes a big difference. I wont skip twice for a cheapie.

But, being on a strict budget, sometimes these are our only options for big machines. Yeah, it may take a little more "home" engineering to get them right, but were not up the creek $$$ wise for months to come.

I wish I could affort all the "fancy" USA made tools. Really.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I gotta agree with Mr. Kelly on this. Trying to do good work with shit tools often results in tons of wasted time and effort. To me, that thing looks pretty flimsy on top, and I can imagine what the dies and roller will be like. Why not save your pennies and buy a kit to build your own?
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Sure you can build you own, but the kits are still 3-4 times as much as this one.

Why not "modify" it to be stonger like most do here w/ the HF bead rollers. It was garbage out of the box, but w/ some creative bracing...it flies!
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Yeah, I guess you can modify the thing and make it work. But if the dies aren't true and the bearings tend to wobble a bit, it'll sure make things fun for ya'. Personally, I prefer to save my money until I can afford the good stuff.
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Quote:
Originally Posted by testpilot
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...unction=Search



Giant 27-3/4" throat capacity lets you fabricate compound curves on large pieces. Ideal for shaping, fabrication, smoothing dents or weld seams in fenders, hood and trunk panels.
  • Quick adjust lower anvil yoke for easy leveling
  • All steel construction
  • Will handle sheet steel to 16 gauge , copper and aluminum to 14 gauge
Throat capacity: 27-3/4"; Welded frame: 4" L x 2" W x 1/4" thick; Includes: Top anvil: 8" diameter x 2" W top anvil, Lower anvile: 3" diameter x 2" radius with dual sealed ball bearing mounts (additional anvils in picture sold separately); heavy duty welded steel stand with four 1/2" mounting holes and anvil die storage; Maximum height: 5 ft. 3/16" H; Overall dimensions: 40-7/8" L x 34-1/2" W x 25-1/2" H


ITEM 95359-0VGA



$I won't post the price but it's DIRT CHEAP

ENGLISH WHEEL BOTTOM ANVIL DIES, SET OF SIX


  • 3", 4", 6", 8", 12" radius dies
  • Flat die
  • Precision machined steel
  • Heat treated
  • Rust protected with Cosmolene®



ITEM 95366-0VGA


$LESS THAN THE COST OF STEEL

ENGLISH WHEEL TOP ANVIL DIE


  • 8" diameter x 2" wide
  • Precision machined steel
  • Heat treated
  • Rust protected with Cosmolene®



ITEM 95367-0VGA


$LESS THAN THE COST OF STEEL





Has anyone purchased or tried this unit YET .?
i tried to pull up the link and it reads ..this item is not a valid item .. or something like that
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Old 01-08-2007, 07:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

i went out and paid $500 for a metalace benchtop english wheel to find out that i prefer a planishing hammer.To each his own but you might as well try something cheap to see if you're gonna have the interest to get a quality one later.
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Old 01-08-2007, 08:11 PM   #27
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Quote:
Originally Posted by slamdpup
i tried to pull up the link and it reads ..this item is not a valid item .. or something like that
When you get to the not a valid item page, look on the left side and use either keyword or item #. I used keyword of english wheel then it appeared or you can use item #95359-ovga
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

My low budget rectangular frame e-wheel cost me about $375 if you leave out the extra lower anvils. One upper wheel, one lower anvil. Both 3" wide, will out perform any cheap narrow wheeled e-wheel going. I don't care how much time you spend on it or how many anvils it has. I would rather have one good lower anvil than all the garbage ones ever made. You will have a very difficult time learning with a cheap e-wheel. If you already have experience, you can make them work...albeit poorly. I have used a few cheap e-wheels, and it is like using a cheap body hammer and dolly. Unless you know what a good set can do, you may never know why you are not getting good results.

There are people who know how to use an english wheel, who spend their time teaching, explaining how to build your own, and making them for sale who really deserve the business. In other words, they have a real passion for metal shaping, not just profits at any cost. Kerry Pinkerton at:

www.wheelingmachines.com

is a prime example. I don't expect people to see this as the moral issue that I see it as, but if you think about where the money goes, and what conditions you would want your children working in, you may come around to my way of thinking at some point....or we can let the harbor freights and walmarts further monopolize, and crush small businesses, degrade worker's conditions here and elsewhere, and stifle the creativity of small businesses. It is our choice, a choice that becomes more important every year.

If we keep buying the cheapest shit available, that is all that will be left.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:17 AM   #29
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Amen..............
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Well said John, I totally agree!
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:38 AM   #31
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Right on John Kelly, That E- wheel is cheap junk the frame and base aren't welded togather or renforced it will move around like a flexy flier, go to MetalMeet and see some of the best metal shapers around and see what they use.
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:14 AM   #32
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I have to say I find this whole thread entirely fascinating. It turned from cheap english wheel at HF to a moral stand against wal-mart and harbor freight. The working conditions are deplorable for most of these people who make the stuff in foreing countries, but what do you think would happen if these companies did nt manufacture stuff there? Do you think that there lives would improve? I think the opposite would happen they would have no jobs, and would have even less to survive on. It is a much deeper topic than overseas stuff is shit cause kids make it.

That being said, the tool in your hand rarely has anything to do with how good the finished product is. You could go out and buy the covell english wheel set up, but if you dont know shit about it your work is still gonna come out like shit. The same for the harbor freight one. If some skilled english wheeler uses it I am sure his results will be far better than someone who does not know what they are doing with a much higher quality one. I myself find that a nice slapper a good variety of dollies and a vixen file work pretty damn good for smoohting metal, but that is just IMHO.

It s not the tool, its the opereator.

Sam
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:17 AM   #33
Carl E. Hagan Jr.
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Gosh guys, I see more are against this thing than for it. But, all the previous post with the HF beadroller & how with a little more beefing up, it can be a good tool makes me wonder. I buy alot of angle grinders from HF, pretty simple to me - My $10 grinder last me around a yr while the $80 one by one of the big names, last me around the same amount of time.

I'm a little leary on this E-wheel just because you can't see it in person. It's a online purchase only & the pic's posted are pretty cheasy, but other companys post pics of tools that are not perfect compaired to the actual tool, 'just to keep some internet guy from looking at the pic & building one.

I mean, a cheap ratchet will break sooner than a snapon, but it'll still get the job done for less cash, at least for people like me working 2 jobs just to get by, and the extra cash isn't exactly to buy the more expensive version of the tool.

Has anyone seen this thing in person. And, should a novice with no E-wheel experience buy a $3,000 nice one just to see if it's something he'd like to try to learn. I've heard alot of good stuff about that hand built E-wheel which was posted a couple weeks back using Ford Axle bearings & self centering implement bearing.
Carl Hagan
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:35 AM   #34
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Thumbs down Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Kelly
Harbor Freight, the Walmart of tool supply. I'd rather shape metal with a rock than buy from them. If it seems too good to be true, it is, for one reason or another. Pay a fair price for labor and maybe in turn you will get a fair price for yours. What goes around, comes around and bites you on the ass....eventually.

For that price, you can get a good quality slapper and post dolly, and learn how to smooth metal first, then step up and buy a real english wheel, instead of a jump on the band wagon, knock off made by slave labor. Or keep buying from these assholes and that will be all that is left at some point. Ask me how I really feel.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com
John is much too kind in his comments.

"$ LESS THAN THE COST OF STEEL"
That should tell you everything you need to know right there.
How can anyone make something decent,ship it half way around the world,
and sell it for less than the cost of materials ?



You can buy Chicken Shit,or Chicken Salad.Your choice.
If you only look at the price,maybe you can't tell the difference.



Unfortunately,our society have "evolved" to where everyone
expects to make top dollar for whatever Shitty little job they do,
but they don't want to pay a fair price for the goods and services they buy.












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Old 01-09-2007, 11:42 AM   #35
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I re read my post after posting it and thought i would clarify a little. I am not saying that you should buy cheap tools, I am saying the quality of tool does not always assure the quality of work. I would much rather have nice tools, because they make everything go smoother and much quicker....if you have the knowledge to use them if not a nice tool can do just as much damage as a cheap one.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I am just going to wait until someones arrives and see if they say it's a piece of shit or not. If it will work fine some small modifications, then I want one. How much shit can you talk about something you havn't tried.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

After my 3-in-1 sheetmetal machine
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=43353
Click image for larger version

Name:	cheap brake.gif
Views:	117
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	262529

broke IN HALF on the first use, I decided to not buy anything from them I can't afford to(or am physically capable of)throw away after one use.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:21 PM   #38
Richard D
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

After my 3-in-1 sheetmetal machine
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=43353
Click image for larger version

Name:	cheap brake.gif
Views:	115
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	262530

broke IN HALF on the first use, I decided to not buy anything from them I can't afford to(or am physically unable to)throw away after one use.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:22 PM   #39
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

I had the chance to use an imperial wheel a few years ago at a metal meet. I made a 28-29 model A doorskin and decklid. If you are looking for a screaming deal on an E-wheel, pay the 2600 bucks for one of those, it is a truely good deal.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C
Sam, I agree with part of what you say, ...and disagree with other parts like quoted above.

While I am not getting into the morals, I think I know where John is coming from because it is likely written from his personal experiences. You see, ...he has a couple of personal friends in the metalshaping community that have designed items in the past. Those guys built and sold those items to others as an income to feed their families. Along comes Harbor Freight and Eastwood who has pirated their designs and sent their items offshore to be made "cheaper". Sure, that is free enterprise but the problem is their items were copied exactly and the "exploiter" did not suffer through the R&D, or the lean times trying to take an idea from brain to reality. It probably isn't a big deal to some that do not know the inventor or manufacturer personally --but I think it becomes personal when someone we know loses their income because that person cannot compete against another company that took (i.e: stole) their idea and is selling against them. This could be debated forever but both sides have merit.

Two other questions about your comments though. Are you saying that a $9.99 spray gun that Harbor Freight sells will lay down the same quality of finish as my SATA digital will?

Are you saying that a cheapie Sum-flung-dung sewing machine will sew as straight and as tightly as my Consew 226R will?

I could go on about lathes, mills, and other tools but I personally think that a great "opereator" (operator) really cannot take a junk quality tool and turn out a premium quality piece. If that were the case, most craftsmen would opt to buy the cheaper item.

your points are well taken, and I agree with you on some of them however in a sense, I am saying that a cheap gun can lay down as nice of paint as an expensive one, but in the other sense I am not. My personal paint gun is the Digital SATA HVLP, and I love it. I would never have purchased that gun as my first paint gun, far too expensive and not necessary for what I was doing. I then progressed, and my ability to handle a gun and lay down nice paint improved, and the logical next step is to buy the nicer equipment. Nice tools last longer and continually deliver quality work. This however is always dependent on the OPERATOR(thanks for pointing that out grammar police). If you don't maintain your nice tools, they wont last, and they wont do what that big price tag promises them to do.

There is always a place for quality in my toolbox, and I personally would not buy the HF english wheel, I am simply stating that if you don't have any idea what you are doing the tool in your hand makes absolutely no difference in the quality of work you put out. But if you do know what you are doing you can still produce quality work without quality tools.

Sam
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