TRANSMISSION, B&M Hydro stick installation instructions

[backyardbeliever]

Well i got my hands on some, what i think is some rare paper and hard ware. So i thought i would share since i see very little Hydro info posted here. Since i am just learning this stuff so please be forgiving as i am just as courious as you on this dinosaur hand grenade proof tire boiling cast iron / legendary transmission ummmm....stuff. Im gonna try and post all the pic's i can of my "education" on these bad boys. I know many of you guys could care less about these "boatanchors" but i find them just totally badd ass. ...So here is the installation instructions from 1963 that you got when you bought a B&M Hydrostick .......Dig it man......

[backyardbeliever]

Oh and here is some hardware if anybody cares. This is what i believe to be B&M's first two products. A hydro shifter (Verd early and kinda crude) and the first gear lockout tube which i believe is what their first patent was awarded for...... Anybody got any more info on B&M's hydro gooodies???

[randydupree]

so what all has to be done to the tranny?anything or?
Randy

[brandon]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

... Anybody got any more info on B&M's hydro gooodies???

no b&m stuff......i do have a catalog from the midwest's hydro king.....hydro-motive....good enough for george.....they must have been good...lot of info in there......brandon

[backyardbeliever]

Randy im not sure what you mean? Are you talking about beefing one up for abuse of just installing one????.................Oh and brandon that hydro-motive cat. is pretty cool. I wish i could be looking through it right now. if ya wanna sell it or trade let me know. Yea Hydro-motive was pretty famous back in the day . I think they were the top name out on the east side. B&M Hydro-stick was the one to have in the west. cool stuff

[brandon]

a buddy of mine in high school , his dad has a hydro stick ....back in 88 we went to their old house in covington , and loaded up a bunch of old speed equipt. a complete hydro-stick with big convertor and gate shifter...a 6-71 with bug catcher, chrome straight axle that was supposed to have went in his 57 vette...and a bunch of other cool parts.....i called the guy up when i was building my anglia a couple years ago in 03.....yep ...still got the stuff.....nope ....ain't for sale....totally sucked ....because i really wanted one for my gasser anglia.....oh well .......might be time to give him another call......haha brandon

[touchdowntodd]

those are junk, send it to me i will melt it and make a shift knob.. hahaha...

damn man, NICE!

[55olds88]

I just heard that a guy I know down here just picked up a Hydro stick out of an olds powered 37 or so Chev coupe fresh import, guy is keeping the engine but for some lame reason got rid of the trans..... and not to me !!!

[backyardbeliever]

Cool stuff....I would love to see pics of other shifters since for the most part these are the only aftermarket pieces for these other than adapters. Anybody?.......... I will post pics of the mods that make these things tick When i get into the two im gonna build with this old guy that built "many many many" of these for old gassers. Mine are both 55 cadillac flat pans that we are starting with. But others work well too really any Dual range is good 1953-55 but select ones will take BIG power better than others. STAY TUNED....

[yorgatron]

James;tell your dad i am ready to assist in any way possible when you guys get started on hydros.
i have the books and the tools,someone needs to bring a camera.

[backyardbeliever]

This is what they will be for. My clone of my dads old gasser that we are building togeather. This pic is the REAL one that was destroyed in the 60's

[backyardbeliever]

Yorgatron ,Pop and i have been getting all the stuff organized boy am i glad he never throws anything away we have 8 milk crates of just internals . we counted 20 dual range valve bodies alone......I will keep ya posted...I need some cad slip yokes? got any....james

[yorgatron]

all i have is Olds and Pontiac yokes.

[daveydeuce]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Well i got my hands on some, what i think is some rare paper and hard ware. So i thought i would share since i see very little Hydro info posted here. Since i am just learning this stuff so please be forgiving as i am just as courious as you on this dinosaur hand grenade proof tire boiling cast iron / legendary transmission ummmm....stuff. Im gonna try and post all the pic's i can of my "education" on these bad boys. I know many of you guys could care less about these "boatanchors" but i find them just totally badd ass. ...So here is the installation instructions from 1963 that you got when you bought a B&M Hydrostick .......Dig it man......

Am going to watch this thread with interest, as I still have some of the Slant Pans left over. Have had a 54 Olds Slant pan in my S.Co.T. blown 331 53 Cad ElDrado eng in my 40 Ford coupe since 75. Still have trouble with the throttle pressure linkage adjustment for the correct 2-3 shift. Cant get the old GM type A for it so use Ford type F. Still have a NOS B&M dual range flat pan for Chev, with linkage. Have a factory GM Pont hydro book and misc stuff. Good luck on your venture!! Later, Dave

[TORR]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Yorgatron ,Pop and i have been getting all the stuff organized boy am i glad he never throws anything away we have 8 milk crates of just internals . we counted 20 dual range valve bodies alone......I will keep ya posted...I need some cad slip yokes? got any....james

Where the hell did you find those pieces!?! That early B&M shit is cast out of "unubtanium". Nice find!
I got a bunch of cad yokes, what spline count do you need?

-Torr

[backyardbeliever]

torr - I need one or two slip yokes for cad 16 spline the tail housings i am running are 55 cad. If ya got one that would be killer and while we are at it i also need a 54 cadillac bellhousing for hydro it must be 54 . Got any ???? Thanks and yea ive never seen the B&M pieces i have anywhere before. the shifter is i suspect kinda scarce.

[backyardbeliever]

Hey daveydeuce the fluid level page of the b&m instructions talk about your 2-3 shift try printing the picture i took. kinda tough to read i know but its the back page . Its pretty greasy but we are all used to reading things this way arent we ? HAHAHaaaa

[daveydeuce]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Hey daveydeuce the fluid level page of the b&m instructions talk about your 2-3 shift try printing the picture i took. kinda tough to read i know but its the back page . Its pretty greasy but we are all used to reading things this way arent we ? HAHAHaaaa

Will do, Thanx, the more info we get, the better we are!!!

Dave

[InjectorTim]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

A hydro shifter (Very early and kinda crude)

crude, yet so beautiful,

[Wasahawaiianrat]

love them hydros! real gasser shit!

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by daveydeuce

Am going to watch this thread with interest, as I still have some of the Slant Pans left over. Have had a 54 Olds Slant pan in my S.Co.T. blown 331 53 Cad ElDrado eng in my 40 Ford coupe since 75. Still have trouble with the throttle pressure linkage adjustment for the correct 2-3 shift. Cant get the old GM type A for it so use Ford type F. Still have a NOS B&M dual range flat pan for Chev, with linkage. Have a factory GM Pont hydro book and misc stuff. Good luck on your venture!! Later, Dave

Here are some diagnosis pages from "How to build your Hydro for street or strip" By Hi-rank corp. 1963............I hope you find these usefull

[brandon]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Cool stuff....I would love to see pics of other shifters since for the most part these are the only aftermarket pieces for these other than adapters. Anybody?.......... I will post pics of the mods that make these things tick When i get into the two im gonna build with this old guy that built "many many many" of these for old gassers. Mine are both 55 cadillac flat pans that we are starting with. But others work well too really any Dual range is good 1953-55 but select ones will take BIG power better than others. STAY TUNED....

here's their shifters......brandon

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by brandon

here's their shifters......brandon

Thats rad i like that corvette straight stick. Ill take two please!!! Old catalogs are such a teaser

[CoalTownKid]

guys thank you for posting all the great info WITH PICS!!! A BIG PLUS!!

[yorgatron]

i'd like to know more about that rear band quick-release gizmo...

[seymour]

Originally Posted by TORR

Where the hell did you find those pieces!?! That early B&M shit is cast out of "unubtanium". Nice find!
I got a bunch of cad yokes, what spline count do you need?

-Torr

I'm in need of some Cad yokes too if you have enough to go 'round. thanks

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by yorgatron

i'd like to know more about that rear band quick-release gizmo...

How the hell did i miss that. Thats very interesting i guess its for the shut down after the lights so you can coast?? The pic doesnt have enough resoulution for me to read it but i cought some of the words. Yorgatron i bet we can make a version of it.? thats one to think about?? nice catch!!!! Damn i wish i had a copy of that book

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by yorgatron

i'd like to know more about that rear band quick-release gizmo...

Me, too. I've amassed quite a collection of literature, parts, tools, etc. for these trannies for my own project, and have heard of such a thing, but have never actually seen pics or info on one.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by Blownolds

Me, too. I've amassed quite a collection of literature, parts, tools, etc. for these trannies for my own project, and have heard of such a thing, but have never actually seen pics or info on one.

So is my asumption correct......The Quick release being for shuting down your engine after the lights and coasting???

[BigJim394]

Originally Posted by yorgatron

i'd like to know more about that rear band quick-release gizmo...

Years ago I bought a B&M Hydro that had been in a 421 Pontiac Powered Henry J Gasser. It had a home made T handle in the same location as the quick release device. The guy selling the hydro (a relative of the owner of the gasser) said he thought it was there so the owner could make his car non moveable, in case his crazed kids somehow figured out how to start it when he wasn't there, as they would not be able to get it in gear. Now that I have seen this thing, I think it may have really been made for aiding in towing the car back down the drag strip return road.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by BigJim394

Years ago I bought a B&M Hydro that had been in a 421 Pontiac Powered Henry J Gasser. It had a home made T handle in the same location as the quick release device. The guy selling the hydro (a relative of the owner of the gasser) said he thought it was there so the owner could make his car non moveable, in case his crazed kids somehow figured out how to start it when he wasn't there, as they would not be able to get it in gear. Now that I have seen this thing, I think it may have really been made for aiding in towing the car back down the drag strip return road.

heres a close up of the quick release....appears to be a cam motion style lock...it was a additional 45 bucks with tranny purchase.....kit form .....a mere 40 bucks......lol phone number is 312-476-7900 who knows.....may be someone still there.......stranger things have happened.......brandon

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by brandon

heres a close up of the quick release....appears to be a cam motion style lock...it was a additional 45 bucks with tranny purchase.....kit form .....a mere 40 bucks......lol phone number is 312-476-7900 who knows.....may be someone still there.......stranger things have happened.......brandon

SHIT.....now i have another item on my christmas list. Man my wish list is becoming a novel...HAHAHAaa..thanks for the close up any other cool interesting pages in that catalog you caused a stir with that last one...thanks man thats the good stuff we want to see here...good job

[Paul]

great thread,
thanks for the pictures,
very cool- and useful!

here's a couple of my Hydro in stock? form
on one of my spare motors..
with the Drag Fast shifter
similar to the B&M
also shown here, pic courtesy the HAMB
this shifter was meant to bolt to a transmission that was rotated,
Chevy truck style?
it will have to be altered to work on this setup and could definately use a detent plate like in the lead photos in this thread

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

So is my asumption correct......The Quick release being for shuting down your engine after the lights and coasting???

I'm not sure if you'd be able to operate it quickly enough at the top end of the track for that. But it would certainly be used when towing your race car back to the pits after a run. Otherwise, from what I understand, you'd have to disconnect the driveshaft to be able to tow the car back without burning something up. Something about the oil pump not turning while other parts are. I'm guessing this is peculiar to the early Hydro's. Any old tow-truck drivers around that can comment on this?

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by Paul

also shown here, pic courtesy the HAMB
this shifter was meant to bolt to a transmission that was rotated,
Chevy truck style?

That one pic looks like a flat-pan shifter mounted to a slant-pan, possibly.

[CoalTownKid]

you guys find the coolest shit!!! DAMN YOU ALLL!!!!! GRRR! LOL!!!!

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Blownolds

That one pic looks like a flat-pan shifter mounted to a slant-pan, possibly.

yes,
I guess that would be more accurate,
it's the slant pan that is rotated, like mine.
and the flat pan has the bellhousing bolts level, like the B&M catalog picture there
which my shifter was designed to fit.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by Paul

yes,
I guess that would be more accurate,
it's the slant pan that is rotated, like mine.
and the flat pan has the bellhousing bolts level, like the B&M catalog picture there
which my shifter was designed to fit.

Rather than modify that beautiful shifter. Just get yourself a 52-54 cadillac bellhousing and it will mount your slant pan level then your done. If your gonna keep it with the olds of course. look at the B&M instructions i posted and it will tell you about how to do your fulid level and dip stick mod to make it read right. OH yea you need a "flat pan" shift arm too. i think i have extras And earlier year cad bellhousings might work too but im still figuring that one out

[Paul]

editor's note;

a copy of this thread has been saved to the Tech Archives

if and when more of this great info is added to the original thread here,
the Tech copy will be updated.

thanks!!

Paul

[yorgatron]

i guess this is as good a place as any to post this;these are the tools you need to work on hydra-matic transmissions.
from top to bottom
1.band adjuster wrench
2.rear servo guage
3.front servo guage
4.throttle lever guage

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by yorgatron

i guess this is as good a place as any to post this;these are the tools you need to work on hydra-matic transmissions.
from top to bottom
1.band adjuster wrench
2.rear servo guage
3.front servo guage
4.throttle lever guage

There are a lot more tools than that! I think I have possibly 50 different ones. I've picked them up by buying out whole toolsets, as well as individually by keeping my eye peeled. I use the old tool manuals and factory shop manuals to I.D. them. But I don't know how many of these tools are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and how many are just nice to have to make a job go easier.

[yorgatron]

[quote=Blownolds]There are a lot more tools than that! quote]
like these?

[Blownolds]

[QUOTE=yorgatron]

Originally Posted by Blownolds

There are a lot more tools than that! quote]
like these?

That's a few of them! I see a couple there that are tough to get.

[martin]

I have, maybe a bit of B & M history,
i draged a 55, 331 motor and trans from a swap meet in the States
a couple of years ago, got it back home, re-built the motor.
but dont know about the trans, thinking if it goes it goes.
if not, ditch it as it`s to much money to re-build down here.
but the trans has a bracket on the rear of it, for the shifter ?
and has B & M Automotive , in raised letering on it. aloy cast.
dont have a camera at this time,but hope to,in the next week or two.
good post, im in on this,
Martin.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by martin

I have, maybe a bit of B & M history,
i draged a 55, 331 motor and trans from a swap meet in the States
a couple of years ago, got it back home, re-built the motor.
but dont know about the trans, thinking if it goes it goes.
if not, ditch it as it`s to much money to re-build down here.
but the trans has a bracket on the rear of it, for the shifter ?
and has B & M Automotive , in raised letering on it. aloy cast.
dont have a camera at this time,but hope to,in the next week or two.
good post, im in on this,
Martin.

Does it look like this one?

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Does it look like this one?

The bracket will look like that. The shift lever itself could be different. Might or might not have the detent plate, too. B&M had several shifters in their catalog.

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by martin

I have, maybe a bit of B & M history,
i draged a 55, 331 motor and trans from a swap meet in the States
a couple of years ago, got it back home, re-built the motor.
but dont know about the trans, thinking if it goes it goes.
if not, ditch it as it`s to much money to re-build down here.
but the trans has a bracket on the rear of it, for the shifter ?
and has B & M Automotive , in raised letering on it. aloy cast.
dont have a camera at this time,but hope to,in the next week or two.
good post, im in on this,
Martin.

Was this a Chrysler hemi 331?

Does the transmission have an actual "B&M" tag on the side of the case?

[DualQuad55]

In my assorted collection of interesting crap, I have a B & M 'Big Stick' shifter with a 'bench seat' lever but no lock out plate. I sold a similar shifter to a guy in Mass a few years back for his blown 394 powered 1950 Olds.
I also sold a friend a shifter that looks very similar to the DragFast unit on this post. I still have some twisted/welded remnants of one more.
But one of the coolest I have is an original Hurst 'HydroGate'. It has a positive detent for each gear similar to the B & M style shown but a little more refined.
I'll try to post some pics if I can figure out this new camera.

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by DualQuad55

But one of the coolest I have is an original Hurst 'HydroGate'. It has a positive detent for each gear similar to the B & M style shown but a little more refined.
I'll try to post some pics if I can figure out this new camera.

Definitely interested to see that.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by DualQuad55

In my assorted collection of interesting crap, I have a B & M 'Big Stick' shifter with a 'bench seat' lever but no lock out plate. I sold a similar shifter to a guy in Mass a few years back for his blown 394 powered 1950 Olds.
I also sold a friend a shifter that looks very similar to the DragFast unit on this post. I still have some twisted/welded remnants of one more.
But one of the coolest I have is an original Hurst 'HydroGate'. It has a positive detent for each gear similar to the B & M style shown but a little more refined.
I'll try to post some pics if I can figure out this new camera.

The hurst hydrogate is a very nice shifter i had a line on a nos one but the guy who had it that "promised" it to me for a healthy price of $400 ouch!!! i was gonna pick it up . Then he called me and said he HAD to sell it to another guy cause he offered him $2500 for it .Yes folks $2500 man i hate when people cant keep their word. And i thought $400 was too much. supply and demand sucks sometimes or i guess im just a broke dick. I like my B&M one more than enough so fuk it.

[backyardbeliever]

well im working on getting some new clutches for the hydros I am building up. These are the high quality waffle pattern FLAT clutches used for "beefing" the clutch packs. They come in a case Qty of 250 but of course i am working on getting a smaller Qty cause 250 is WAY too many. My point is Does anybody want any? I know few people build their own. But i thought i would ask

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

well im working on getting some new clutches for the hydros I am building up. These are the high quality waffle pattern FLAT clutches used for "beefing" the clutch packs. They come in a case Qty of 250 but of course i am working on getting a smaller Qty cause 250 is WAY too many. My point is Does anybody want any? I know few people build their own. But i thought i would ask

I would be interested in some Kevlar clutches. I've thought about having some made by the same place that does the red alto eagle racing clutch plates, but just haven't gotten around to that yet.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by Blownolds

I would be interested in some Kevlar clutches. I've thought about having some made by the same place that does the red alto eagle racing clutch plates, but just haven't gotten around to that yet.

What really is the advantage of kevlar is it a heat or extended life thing , just curious. I know its tuff stuff but does it have a specific purpose in automatics?

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

What really is the advantage of kevlar is it a heat or extended life thing , just curious. I know its tuff stuff but does it have a specific purpose in automatics?

Life expectancy under high-pressure, high-heat use, I would guess. Why else would racing transmissions use them?

[backyardbeliever]

well i just picked up an intersting hydro yesterday. Its out of a Cad flathead powered Sherman tank. I think its note worthy for at least one reason so far. It has a heat exchanger intergrated in the CAST IRON !! fluid pan that uses engine coolant to cool the trans fluid. Its pretty cool lookin (no pun intended) But any of you hydro guys that might intersted in what is different about the TANK HYDRO'S i will post some pics soon of what i find to be different. When i begin my "Mad Scientist"disection. Im not gonna let this thread die. more to come

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

well i just picked up an intersting hydro yesterday. Its out of a Cad flathead powered Sherman tank. I think its note worthy for at least one reason so far. It has a heat exchanger intergrated in the CAST IRON !! fluid pan that uses engine coolant to cool the trans fluid. Its pretty cool lookin (no pun intended) But any of you hydro guys that might intersted in what is different about the TANK HYDRO'S i will post some pics soon of what i find to be different. When i begin my "Mad Scientist"disection. Im not gonna let this thread die. more to come

THAT is a very, very RARE tranny core. Do NOT take it apart until you know how to put one back together again. A military collector hinted to me that the tranny core should be worth really big money to a collector that needs one. This was from a guy that operates a military machine museum...

I only know of one other in the hands of another hydro guy I know. He took it apart and knows all the little differences... but I can't get any info out of him, I don't think. I suspect you'll find brass clutch plates in addition to the cooler, but I would be VERY, VERY interested to know what you actually find! But please take special care in how you disassemble it!!

Do you have other stock hydro's that you can take apart and compare each component to side-by-side? (not that there aren't lots of differences in the different passenger car hydro's)

Pics?

I also have lots of tranny cores and crates full of loose hydro parts. I would love to take part in an info-sharing session, but it will sadly have to wait for a while. I'm pursuing a career change with my wife and all my stuff is packed away in storage at this time.

[Blownolds]

I guess I should mention that I once saw another very interesting, heavy-duty Hydro in a junkyard, but sadly I was unable to retrieve it. I seem to recall it as having cooler lines in the bottom too, but I think the pan was stamped steel and not cast iron.

It was transverse-mounted in the back of an early '50's GMC bus with a straight-6 GMC engine. RARE

I wish I could have retrieved it before the bus got crushed...

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

well im working on getting some new clutches for the hydros I am building up. These are the high quality waffle pattern FLAT clutches used for "beefing" the clutch packs. They come in a case Qty of 250 but of course i am working on getting a smaller Qty cause 250 is WAY too many. My point is Does anybody want any? I know few people build their own. But i thought i would ask

Do you know exactly what type clutches these are? As in the composition?

[yorgatron]

are those the Dyna-Flow clutches?

[willys36]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

The hurst hydrogate is a very nice shifter i had a line on a nos one but the guy who had it that "promised" it to me for a healthy price of $400 ouch!!! i was gonna pick it up . Then he called me and said he HAD to sell it to another guy cause he offered him $2500 for it .Yes folks $2500 man i hate when people cant keep their word. And i thought $400 was too much. supply and demand sucks sometimes or i guess im just a broke dick. I like my B&M one more than enough so fuk it.

I too have been looking for a Hurst Hydrogate for 30 years. Just found out something interesting about them; last week a new, never been out of the box one was on ebaY for a reserve proce. I bid $200 but didn't break the reserve. I conversed w/ the seller who was the son of the owner of S&S speed shop who sponsored many of the legendary gassers in the 60s, including K.S. Pittman. He claims that Hurst only made 6 prototypes of the shifter and S&S got all 6! Thus if you do get one it will cost a bundle and will have to likely come from one source.

[willys36]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Oh and here is some hardware if anybody cares. This is what i believe to be B&M's first two products. A hydro shifter (Verd early and kinda crude) and the first gear lockout tube which i believe is what their first patent was awarded for...... Anybody got any more info on B&M's hydro gooodies???

Yes, that valve you are holding is the first gear locker that the Spar Bros. invented. Since Dusal Range Hydramatics didn't have torque converters, GM designed a very low first gear and no provison to hold it there so the tranny automatically shifts to second @ ~10-15mph. This was the factory's answer to a torque converter. Modified B&M Hydros came with that valve but racers rarely if ever used it. On a strip launch, the need to 1-2 shift came up so quickly that racers started out in second letting the 1-2 be their 'torque converter' as GM designed it. Thus the thing that put B&M on the map had little use in drag racing, lending itself more to off road mud driving!

Incidentally, your valve is missing the plunger. I'll post a picture or two of how the thing goes in the tranny.

[NONAME]

well I've put this out several times but since this post is hanging well I'll try again.
looking for a Hemi to Hydro adapter. at this point I don't really care how reasonable it is

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by NONAME

well I've put this out several times but since this post is hanging well I'll try again.
looking for a Hemi to Hydro adapter. at this point I don't really care how reasonable it is

I have a hemi-to-hydro flywheel for $300 plus shipping, but no adapter-- sorry.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by Blownolds

THAT is a very, very RARE tranny core. Do NOT take it apart until you know how to put one back together again. A military collector hinted to me that the tranny core should be worth really big money to a collector that needs one. This was from a guy that operates a military machine museum...

I only know of one other in the hands of another hydro guy I know. He took it apart and knows all the little differences... but I can't get any info out of him, I don't think. I suspect you'll find brass clutch plates in addition to the cooler, but I would be VERY, VERY interested to know what you actually find! But please take special care in how you disassemble it!!

Do you have other stock hydro's that you can take apart and compare each component to side-by-side? (not that there aren't lots of differences in the different passenger car hydro's)

Pics?

I also have lots of tranny cores and crates full of loose hydro parts. I would love to take part in an info-sharing session, but it will sadly have to wait for a while. I'm pursuing a career change with my wife and all my stuff is packed away in storage at this time.

i will surely be carefull when i dissasemble it. ive got a feeling that its most likely not much differnt inside than any other early cad single range of that era. but curiousoty is killin me sorry im a little slow on this one but the day after i got it i had to go to costa rica which is where i am now on the hotel comp. The other assembled hydro,s i have are chevy truck thats built and ready to go racin and 2 - 55 cad units and lots of internals left over from my dads hydro days of building them for strip cars bands and dual range valve bodies make up most of it though. its funny what you said about gettin info from old hydro guys ive had the same experence in that they dont even wanna talk about em and cant understand why i have any interest in them. On the tank hydro another thing i noticed is that it has a short tailhousing with a mount on the bottom just like my 55 cad units but its a short tail like most hydros and not 2 ft long like later cad.I suspect its just stock early cad but i dont know. Like you said there is alot to know about hydros. You mentioned brass clutch plates you mean like with no friction matt. bonded to them? Have you ever heard of hydro clutches like this? damn now you have my really really curious.

[backyardbeliever]

Originally Posted by willys36

Yes, that valve you are holding is the first gear locker that the Spar Bros. invented. Since Dusal Range Hydramatics didn't have torque converters, GM designed a very low first gear and no provison to hold it there so the tranny automatically shifts to second @ ~10-15mph. This was the factory's answer to a torque converter. Modified B&M Hydros came with that valve but racers rarely if ever used it. On a strip launch, the need to 1-2 shift came up so quickly that racers started out in second letting the 1-2 be their 'torque converter' as GM designed it. Thus the thing that put B&M on the map had little use in drag racing, lending itself more to off road mud driving!

Incidentally, your valve is missing the plunger. I'll post a picture or two of how the thing goes in the tranny.

what ive come to learn about this perticular mod. is the best mod is to do is not modify the stock tube but instead machine the governor WAY down so your 1-2 shift comes in at around 6000 or so depending on how much you cut off. cause like you said there is other things for the driver to be doing 10 ft out of the hole than trying to shift to second because first is ridicoulsly low. Also i have a valve assy thats in a tranny i have its just not a cool lookin b & M one so i didnt post a pic of it . my thought on the first gear reason was more that these tranny's came in very heavy cars that were relitively under powered. If you look at the different ratios of the differnt cars you will notice that there all different and that comerical service vehicles and cadillac had the lowest first gear ratios. Its the job of the torus assy. to provide the function of the engine to continue running while the car is not moving while in gear . which is why it only has the duty idleing in gear and the 1-2 shift and is not in use after that. The 2-3 and 3-4 shifts are direct and do not use the torus. which also is why these trannys last and dont burn up there is nothing making HEAT most of the time. the spend very little of their life using the torus assy. I would like to see b&m's valve if you have a pic of it. Thanks

[yorgatron]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

Its the job of the torus assy. to provide the function of the engine to continue running while the car is not moving while in gear . which is why it only has the duty idleing in gear and the 1-2 shift and is not in use after that. The 2-3 and 3-4 shifts are direct and do not use the torus.

so if you were to cut down the vanes on the torus to raise the stall speed it wouldn't affect the normal driving?

[NONAME]

I used a half dollar piece marked them about 3/4 inch from the center to get 3000-3500 stall,

[willys36]

Originally Posted by backyardbeliever

what ive come to learn about this perticular mod. is the best mod is to do is not modify the stock tube but instead machine the governor WAY down so your 1-2 shift comes in at around 6000 or so depending on how much you cut off. cause like you said there is other things for the driver to be doing 10 ft out of the hole than trying to shift to second because first is ridicoulsly low. Also i have a valve assy thats in a tranny i have its just not a cool lookin b & M one so i didnt post a pic of it . my thought on the first gear reason was more that these tranny's came in very heavy cars that were relitively under powered. If you look at the different ratios of the differnt cars you will notice that there all different and that comerical service vehicles and cadillac had the lowest first gear ratios. Its the job of the torus assy. to provide the function of the engine to continue running while the car is not moving while in gear . which is why it only has the duty idleing in gear and the 1-2 shift and is not in use after that. The 2-3 and 3-4 shifts are direct and do not use the torus. which also is why these trannys last and dont burn up there is nothing making HEAT most of the time. the spend very little of their life using the torus assy. I would like to see b&m's valve if you have a pic of it. Thanks

Here is B&M's valve installed. When I first modified my tranny I didn't have a B&M valve so I made one out of aluminum bar stock and a piece of steel rod. Works great. Regardless, really is no reason for it in a drag car. Starting out in 2nd, allowing an auto 1-2 shift then manually shifting the rest works pefectly.



Also, here are a couple photos of the military version. Quite a bit different from the auto one. Has a cast iron bottom pan, different dip stick boss cast into the body. These things were used in military tanks during WWII so a little service behind a blown 400' engine is no sweat!

[Blownolds]

Wow, never saw a pic of a military unit-- thanks!

As for what I mentioned about brass clutches, I mean solid brass or brass-alloy clutch discs. I understand this is what were in tank trannies, as well as what the Dynaflow clutches were supposed to be.

I also understand that while they are good for high-heat, the brass shavings that wear off tend to clog up the valve body. Just what I've heard. I plan on having a small production run of Red Alto kevlar clutches done when I'm ready for them. But that sort of small production run type of thing is NOT CHEAP and I'm a long ways from needing them yet. Too many other areas of my project to concentrate on.

[cadillac dave]

i am running a hydro in my 31 roadster. just scored a pile of n.o.s. hydro parts from a pontiac dealer. nice catalog. cadillac dave

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by yorgatron

so if you were to cut down the vanes on the torus to raise the stall speed it wouldn't affect the normal driving?

I wouldn't say that. Just raising the stall speed affects normal driving! But besides that, I understand that the higher the stall, the more slippage at high RPM. Or maybe that should be rephrased to more horspeower being lost by the two torus halves not transferring it all. Remember that the drive torus moves the driven torus by basically fanning past it and the fluid getting pushed by the vanes. Cut the vanes down and they can't move the fluid as well. This is why the stall speed goes up before the car starts to move. You gotta rev the engine (and subsequently the flywheel, torus bowl, and the drive torus) higher to get the driven torus to start to move. At least that's my take on it, and my understanding. It just makes sense to me that the efficiency of the torus assembly goes down when you start shaving the vanes back for higher stall.

That being said, it should be noted that there are differences in the toruses from model to model and year to year. I have seen several different ones. I plan on starting out with the small 10-1/2" diametewr Chevy truck torus in un-modified form, and then only making modifications to the vanes if necessary.

[willys36]

You are correct, cutting the vanes raises stall speed but also decreases mechanical efficiency across the RPM range. Less fuel efficiency and more heat generation is the result. Hydros are super sensitive to vane cutting and as B&M stressed in their 60s sales literature, get the tori configured EXACTLY for the type of driving you plan to do. Cutting too much or too little for your application is disasterous. My recommendation for the street is get the 10 1/2" 'Chevy' torus and use it in the big Olds/Caddy torus cover instead of the larger big-car tori. Since torque generation is a function of torus diameter to the 5th power, the smaller Chevy unit will increase the stall speed w/o loss of efficiency at speed.

[Blownolds]

Originally Posted by willys36

My recommendation for the street is get the 10 1/2" 'Chevy' torus and use it in the big Olds/Caddy torus cover instead of the larger big-car tori.

For folks using a Chevy engine, I think I'd recommend using the smaller-diameter 18-bolt Chevy torus bowl as well. I don't believe you can attach a large 30-bolt Olds/Cad/Pontiac torus bowl to a Chevy hydro flywheel. Unless you know different.

[willys36]

Originally Posted by Blownolds

For folks using a Chevy engine, I think I'd recommend using the smaller-diameter 18-bolt Chevy torus bowl as well. I don't believe you can attach a large 30-bolt Olds/Cad/Pontiac torus bowl to a Chevy hydro flywheel. Unless you know different.

That's correct. Sorry, I am always thinking hemi!

[unclescooby]

I just got this unit behind my Lincoln 368 and I don't know a thing about them. I'm hoping this post goes forever...

[Paul]

great bit of info here,

Rocketeers

put together by the HAMB's own Peter Lombardi

[Paul]

scans lifted from http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=717614

posted by DualQuad55