Title & Tag Harrassment.

Ok, I'm in Kansas City Kansas. Bought a Fucking Awesome chopped & channeled '30 Ford Sedan. Wisconsin clean title with the sellers name, no leans, od exempt, signed notorized on back. I drive this beast 6miles. At 33 yrs old, this was the most memorable, awesome 6 miles I've ever drove. Local DMV looks it all over, says new engine / new frame, cant title it. State that 2 major components changed & that it needs to be titled as 2006 or 2007 assembled vehicle. "I dont give about this, I love the car" so what do I need to do. KS highway patrol gives me two options: 1 - take car back to WI to have original owner title it correctly. 2 - get lawyer & go to court asking for judge to court order a quiet title for the KS highway patrol to reissue a new number to the car. "What a bunch of Kill Joys these guys are." Do all you guys in Ks really have your car titled like this. Hell, I think I might have loop wholed the system with my Pro Street malibu by taggin it with the V6 & then turning it ProStreet. What is the deal with this type of harrassment. Carl Hagan

 

Oh man,
I sure hope all the other DMV's dont start this shit!
The bad thing about all this is..
If it was a 1970 or newer with the same changes they wouldnt have even mentioned it. I cant imagine the DMV was even smart enough to know the car had a different engine and frame.
Maybe you just need to go to another DMV and find some young clerical type to inspect your car.

 

I can't stress this enough, become a AAA member and do it there don't go to DMV at all.
Works for me everytime.

 

OK the car don't have a vin tag. It was probably originally titled by the engine number. But Fords did have numbers on the chassis. Its just a shame your chassis doesn't have numbers in the appropriate place and you didn't take it to the DMV in Podunk Center as opposed to murder/car theft central.

 

I'm with Dred...that's the way I did it back in Cali for years....

 

Does anyone else have any input on this. Shit, I'm not sure how I'm gonna deal with it. Went ahead & put it in a storage container until I get it sorted out. This is the biggest reasons people do not get involved in this type of hobby. Even one of the bigger reasons you have Muscle Car & TUnner people. My own father told me along time ago about this shit & that is why a lot of people just go for a 55 or newer build 'cause apparently its just too much of a pain in the ass. Shit, I was prepared with a grand for the 'bacon' just in case but I could tell that 5-0 wasn't going to go for that either. He was a JERK. Carl Hagan Come on guys, I know you all feel for me, but can any of you give me any options. ARE THERE ANY KC LAWYERS AMONG US HERE ???????

 

what a hassle!

is there anyway you can stamp the frame with a stamping kit and put the Vin # on the title?

did you already "initiate a file" a the DMV (in other words if you were just to show up at the DMV do they already have all the info they told you on the computor?) or can you show up and by chance find a customer rep more willing to work with you. i have noticed 2 things at the DMV:

1. that they really like the individual to help them out...
2. and it's sort of a game, that if you play it right, it only matters that they can satisfy their end and cover their own butts

on a couple of occaisions i have gone to the DMV and they have said "I'm not going to write any notes on this... and then they say but here's what you need to do..., and when you come back make sure it all has this... or that you've done that..."

typically they have really good ideas as to how to "beat" their own system.

stamping the frame helps them out, because the average 24 yearold DMV clerk won't know the difference between the stock frame and the fabbed one... if you help them by giving them the numbers, thats one more thing you can check off.

good luck... what a bummer of a situation.

 

It already has, Nevada for sure gave me the same line of BS when I tried to title a clear 1927 Kansas Model T- said the frame was not original (even though it was from ANOTHER 1927 T!), and proceeded tot ell me that any year vehicle, if the body or frame is changed (1 OR the other!), it NEEDS a new title. They told me all the CA cars that come in with tube chassis are rejected and titled as 200* whatever year it is. Told me if I wrecked my brand new truck, went to the manufacturer for a new frame, I'd need to have a new VIN assigned and retitle it. Now, the guy was a jerk that day, but I've been given almost the same line on at least four other occasions. That's why I am SUPER picky about projects these days. The bigger BS part of it is, that if it were a Nevada titled car, I would never even have to get it inspected!

 

Man, that sucks... I agree the AAA is your best route.

The absolute craziest thing is that the sedan is a legit Model A when I'd bet there are thousands of tupperware/TCI Deuces in Kansas titled "1932 Ford."

It's weird that Illinois is more lenient than a lot of Western states... here you can make modification as long as they leave the car safer/ more roadworthy than the original.

 

First off why is the DMV even looking at it?? If it was the middle of winter would you have to bring the car there to them??

In Michigan you take the title to the DMV, pay the $15 to get a new title with your name on it and wala, done. You get your new title in the mail in about a week. No one looks at the car.

Now, if you don't have a title in Michigan then you have to drive the "assembled" car to the State Police post for inspection with all your receipts for parts and they issue you a current year assembled title.

I can't believe your having this many issues when you have a clear title to a car in your hand. Another reason why Michigan is a cool state to reside in.

 

Dreadman, enlighten me on the AAA deal. Never heard of it. Maybe i'm missing out on something.

 

PM Sodas38, a fellow Kansasian.

 

Hey! Talk to us about the AAA thing. How can they help? Thanks

 

The AAA deal is primarly a California setup. They do a lot of the DMV type work, not true in all states. I know it is not true up here in Montana. It is the only way to go in CA. I have a friend down there and have gone with him to get titles done at AAA. Just check with the AAA office in your area and they will know.

Doug.

 

Yes, give us some insight on the "AAA" thing. Maybe that is still an option for me, possibly cheaper than an attorney. Carl Hagan.

 

I'm in KC, albeit on the MO side. My VIN tag is lost for my '60 Cadillac, although I do have a clear NE title in my name, and it was licensed there a few years ago.

Although it's the same frame, it has a different motor and transmission.

Needless to say, I'm pretty curious as to what goes on here with your car, to see if I can avoid stuff like that with mine.

~Jason

 

Any DMV action new car of whatever can be a hassle if you haven't done your homework.
Pa has some of the tightest rules around, but so far I haven't had any problems other than the time it takes to document everything, go through the process, and wait for the paperwork to go thru the system.
Each time I start a project I check the DMV for any changes in the law, print out the requirements and forms and go from there. That way when I run into someone who wants to hassle me, I have my stuff together.
I would suggest starting with the KS DMV website to see what the facts really are.

 

Ditto.

Here in MO, they seem to be just an auto club/trip planner/insurance provider. They've done away with a LOT of thrie local offices, citing "you can do everything online that you could've done there" as the reason.

~Jason

 

I can't imagine you'd need an attorney. I mean, really, what's the point of all this? It's to make sure the vehicle is relatively safe and has a way of being identified in case it goes missing or whatever. So it needs some sort of unique ID permanently marked on it. It sounds like you don't care if it is titled as an assembled vehicle or Ford, so there has to be a way to get it legit.

My '54 had an old NC title when I bought it and, at the time, I wanted a "title only" for SC. It required some special State Troopper guy to come out and examine the car and verify the VIN. Actually, I don't think I ever showed the NC title to anyone- so it may as well not had a title at all.

 

When I lived in Pittsburg, it was a no brainer. They didn't even SEE the car. In joco, they want my uncle's dna to tag an out of state vehicle. I wonder how many of the Texas plates that are parked all over Olathe are legal, but YOU try and do it legal and they act like you're a criminal.

 

I went through the same thing when i titled my T. Even though 95% of the car (and 100% of the "major" components) were built pre-1950, the Hi-Po would only issue a new "Assembled Vehicle" VIN. The shittiest part of the whole process was sending photographs to some lady at the Treasury Dept. who then appraised the car (still in primer, and barely street legal at the time) for taxes, even though I had receipts to prove what I'd paid for it. It is my opinion that she attached an overly high value as I pay damn near the same amount in taxes and fees on the T as I do my '05 Mustang. She kept asking questions like "well, what would you sell it for?", I didn't think that was right for her to ask that so I lied and shot her a low number near what the receipts showed.

Once the Hi-Po signs off, its a quick process to get it on the road; its just painful. I'm not making that same mistake with my next project; its getting titled before any changes are made.

 

Carl, pm sent

 

Carl,
Kansas sucks when it comes to this.......... Call
First American Title here in Wichita, 316-554-2872

 

So you've got a title with some numbers on it, neither the engine or the frame have these numbers on them. I can't say that I'm suprised that they wouldn't transfer the title. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's understandable. You have a vehicle which they have not way of matching the title to. I wouldn't call it harrassment. I'd call it the letter of the law. Can you stamp the frame with the correct numbers and try again?

 

The frame has the numbers stamped on it from the title. The title is clean with the sellers name on front & signed & notorized on the back. The issue was, "It's not a 30 ford any longer...KS & WI goes off the original flathead engine number which should match the title....this car has new 350 engine / manual trans & new frame. " Thats the whole ordeal, original model A numbers & title....but new frame with original model A numbers stamped in it & new engine. The 5-o said the previous owner should have had the car renumbered by WI patrol...... it's just a bullshit....paper trail....money game to the state dmv. Fuck, I just gotta work around this some how. There is know way I'm putting any blame on the seller. Hell-o builder is what he is. I love the car & the look & he did an awesome build. I think I loop wholed my prostreet car just like this. Its not a problem to me now, but if it sells outta state, the next guy is gonna have a mess 'cause it's now prostreet & no emiss stuff. What comes around goes around & I just need to cut the chase, ignore any possibilities & just go with what for sure will get it titled & legal. Hell, when I called the 5-o the dmv guy referred me to, they already new about the Ford & was waiting on my call. I'm rooked for now. Any Hamb Friendly KC Lawyers Here??? Carl Hagan

 

So if I put a new engine in 30 Ford, according to KS, it’s not a 30 Ford anymore? What if I changed the rear axle or the transmission?? What if I put a new radio in it… does that make it a 2006 Ford?? What about a set of wheels or upgrading the brakes to hydraulic??? --not a 30 Ford anymore? What’s the logic here? That has got to be one of the most idiotic pieces of legislation in the history of earth. Undoubtedly this hair-brained ‘guide line’ was conceived by some guy in a suit that has never got his hands dirty in his whole life, and because of that fact, has lost his ability for any kind of rational thought. You guys that live in that state need to group together and change that law.

 

This is the reason i never have the state police do an inspection of an out of state car. I go to my local city police downtown and they look at the vin number and it's never a hastle. Good luck on your car.

 

For all the things that suck about living in New York, it's worth it for the ease of registering 1972 & older. You could get plates with just a serial tag and not even have a car, as long as you can show them something with a weight on it, have insurance cards and so on.

Can one of the big groups that lobby states for better laws for auto hobbyists help out here? is it SEMA that does that? I can't think what their name is -


I'm not sure I understand why they have to look at the car - is it because the title is out of state? I'd also question how adding say, a 1972 Chevy block makes this a 2006 car - a 1972 car maybe, but not a 2006. But it sounds like the only way to beat these guys is to title it before modification, and once you get a good KS title keep it and a matching tag handy for re-use later.

 

If you're going to drive it on the street it's a street rod so get over the title and look at all the hard work S R Magazine has done on the subject here: http://www.streetrodderweb.com/registration/

 

For what it's worth, I had the same problem with a Harley I built. I had a frame with a number, a motor with no title but receipts, and I wanted to title it as special construction. They gave me the run around on the motor, but I had receipts from a bike shop, full paper trail on everything. It came down to the inspector's decision. Thankfully they cleared it. But, I learned never to do that again.

My hotrod came titled as a 49 Chrysler Windsor. Now the only thing that resembles the original is the frame and engine. Since it was a clear title, I just transferred it. Wasn't about to give them a chance to screw it up.

All I can say, is without the full paper trail that they want, there won't be any budging on their part. They have gone way over-board on trying to make sure nothing is hot.