I picked up a rotty '69 Olds Toronado to part out and discovered the motor could well be a 455 - okay, should save that. The books I have say Olds stamped engine numbers and codes on the dipstick tube. While this car seems to be all original, who knows what was done the 10 years or so it was on the road. I couldn't find anything on the tube anyhow. A guy I know who messes with these said to check the front middle of the block, like Chrysler Hemis, but I didn't find anything obvious there either. So anyone know how to tell if it's a 455 short of pulling a head and seeing if the bore is 3.870 or 4.216? This motor does have the "C" heads that seem to be more desirable. What's the story on that? Is there any interchangability to the 307, if I should need an oil pan or something? Thanks -
the 455 is quite a bit wider than the 307, they had short and tall deck blocks. 260-307-330-350-403 are short deck, 400-425-455 are tall deck, I believe, corrections welcome!
That was my guess, too, but if it's anything like the Pontiacs the distributor, oil pan, and front cover may interchange. Motor in this car looks like it's as wide as it is long -
If you've got access to a 307 Olds, measure the width of the intake and compare it to what's in the Toronado. The Toronado exhaust manifolds may be of some interest to someone, as the right hand manifold won't be that dorky thing with two holes in it.
307 olds has nearly nothing in common with those olds. Check the casting number at the rear of the block. That will tell you what it is. It should be a steel crank 455 with C heads. Probally the best olds motor made.
I made reference to the 307 because they are so common that he should be able to find one, and that if the intake manifold on the Toronado engine is wider than that of the 307, it is definitely a tall deck block.
yeah-it's either a 425 or 455. either way, a thoroughly killer motor. be careful about milling the heads-that monster should be about 10:1 stock. Steel cranks didn't make a huge difference, but the fact you *might* have one is a point of interest- you can stroke it to as big as 527 inches! after that, spend the money on some good heads and 550 horsepower is about as difficult to acheive as falling off a log.
I had an '87 Pontiac with the 307 and I saved it only because the engine had "remanufactured by GM" decals on it and still ran when we went to crush the car. The motor itself is a turkey, but I can tell just from looking at this thing that it's wider than that motor ever was (you remember changing spark plugs in what's supposed to be a full-sized car when you have to jack it up and go through the fenderwell to get to two of them). The intake on this is completely different, a lot flatter. The books I have show 400 and 455 in 68-69, no 425, but I did a little digging and it looks like you could get a 400 in the Toronado if you wanted it. I screwed up, too, the code is on the oil filler tube - I'll have to check that out. It's still a removable part though (not the first time I've questioned the common sense behind a GM design!). On the bright side, it sounds like it was a deal for $50, even with a mummified dead mouse in the glovebox and a load of rabbit or squirrel droppings in the back seat. I wonder if the rear axle on one of these is worth saving for a trailer?
a mummified mouse is a lot better than a rotting rat....like the one that fell out of my 61 last week as I was working on it....
Olds motors are quite easy to identify. If you look at the head above the exhaust port you will find either a letter or number. All number motors are small blocks, and all letters are big blocks. To ID the motor get the letter or number off the head and also the letter or number off the flat surface of the block on top right behind the water pump. Go to a web page call Oldsmobility.com and you can look up all the details of your motor. The labels on the oil filler are great if they are there because they tell you what car the motor originally came in. Guess the 7 years playing with my 67' 442 did learn me a few things....LOL... Actually went to a local show this weekend and with out knowing it, was admiring a very nice 67' 442 and when I said to the young guy how nice it was and ask where he got it from, he said...."my dad bought it off you"....WOW did it look nice compared to when I drove it 2 years ago. New paint, dog dish hubcaps and a new interior....great
Would love to see a highlight of the flat surface by the water pump, this block the intake meets the front top of the block flush. I scraped around and cleaned off some of it, so far no flat pad.
C heads are by far the most desireble for 455's as far as flow and stock valve sizes. the difference in size is only 2" in width and about 85lbs in weight to a SBO, the deck heights are within an inch. the swap is a direct fit; even in a G-body, thought it makes headers tough in a car that small. hell, i've seen twin turbo 455's in covairs...talk about scary fast i'm actually about to do that same swap in my '84 delta...it's gonna be nice to have double the hp and torque on the road if you are looking for any other info, feel free to pm me and i'll give ya all the help i can. also look on www.realoldspower.com www.oldspower.com and www.442.com for more info.
It has me starting to wonder how it would fit into a Model A engine bay, and where the hell to find a flywheel to run a manual trans with it -
it would fit just slightly tighter than a SBC. for a manual flywheel, not very hard at all. i saw some on ebay for $35 a couple weeks ago. you put one of those in your model a, make sure you reinforce that frame to the balls or that 455 will twist it into a double helix in a hurry! that engine you're looking at had 385 hp and 501 ft/lbs tq at the flywheel stock...
as far as the number/letter thing-bologna! My 330 has a set of stock heads on it-F's and it's a small block (if you could call it that.) and the cylinder head to have is a set of D's- but they typically bring around 3 large. ( 3 grand for iron heads? screw that, 1400 for aluminum that flow better sounds like the deal...) what they are asking for is a shot of the area between the timing cover/ water pump and the intake manifold- it will be quite a bit taller in there if it is a "big" olds. unfortunately, there is no sure way to tell how big unless you get the codes off it. I'm pretty sure they still had the 425 in '69. especially considering that is the drivetrain used to build the Hurst Hairy olds.-which was built and crashed in 66, rebuilt and crashed in 67 (with the new body) built and crashed in 68 (as a 67) and blown up several times in '69. either way, yank it, tear it apart, fix the oiling system, balance it, and let that bastard scream. then, as you break suspension parts, replace them with stronger peices!
C heads in a '69 could be either, you're right...this is from 442.com C '67 - '69 425 80 394548 A/C '68 H/O's. Toro's and 442's got big. 455 valves. Rumored to flow the best of all BB heads. Can still be found. but the 425 has a forged crank...think of the fun you could have with that kind of bottom end F heads are the ones that bring the real money...if only for the restorations. the D heads were in a few diff cars, but the F's were in only the W-30's
almost forgot to mention...the toro intakes are the best flowing ones . since the clearance is so tight, it's low profile and the engineers made it flow like mad right outta the factory.
i belive only the 66-67 toros had 425s.i think 455s started in 68.anyway 425s used the steel crank.very few 68 455s got a forged peice.most from that era are nodular iron.bb olds are kinda fun.youll like that toro motor.heres the one going in my 56.btw the bb olds oil pan will fit the 307 but not the other way around.good luck, eric
Steel 455 cranks only came in very, very early '68 models. Then the forging plant was shut down and cast became the norm. If it is a '69 engine, it should have a nodular iron crank with a big "N" cast on it. Still a good crank, you won't break it.
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