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Ha/gr

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Jul 16, 2007.

  1. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  2. cruzr
    Joined: Jan 19, 2006
    Posts: 3,127

    cruzr
    Member

    ahhhh Dick Kraft.......an Orange County, Ca boy , i think the car club "The Krafters" was named after him as i recall. Santa Ana drags was a hoot in the early days, i remember it well as a kid.
     
  3. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,212

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    Great post Ryan. Your original thoughts were dead on even though it spawned two "classes"; it was well worth the effort.
     
  4. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    The Ramrods swing both ways...:eek:

    We saw this coming and updated our fuel system to a 4bbl to compete with the SDRA boys, BUT...we also still have the 3x2 Stromberg setup to run at the hamb drags. Our car still has a 3 speed stick and bias ply tires. As for the anodized fittings...every B-25 came off the assembly line with them...;)

    ...oh, and we just removed the modern tuned headers and installed chrome plated short zoomies...:)
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.

  5. GMC BUBBA
    Joined: Jun 15, 2006
    Posts: 3,420

    GMC BUBBA
    Member Emeritus

    Good post ! Its all about the " spirit of the bug" , after the Mo-Kan drags last year we discussed the HA/GR class all the way home and started our build plans. We used the rule sheet and stayed pre 62 on the entire project. No calls were made to Jegs or even Speedy Bill! The car had to be build out of stuff the group had laying around.
    The front axle is a 37 Morris and Tom C ( Culbertsons Customs) starting welding up the frame.
    [​IMG]
    A short couple days and Tom was ready for a sit down test drive ?
    [​IMG]
    The engine was a 1956 GMC truck engine with a handmade period intake and old Mallory rev pol split coil ignition system. Engine came from a pulling tractor project in Tennessee.
    [​IMG]i
    Some red paint and we have a roller?
    [​IMG]

    We now have only two runs on the car, ( breaking the car at Goodguys Indy) and have ran 90 mph. Rear end ??
    Nothing can ever take the excitement away from dropping the clutch on one of these and knowing the "Bug and the spirit" must be happy as well!!
    Thanks Ryan and Kevin and anyone else for thinking this class up. Its been a ball for all us Indy dudes to put together and we are packing our bags for Mo-Kan as we speak.
    We will be the crew grinning and enjoying the weekend fast or slow!!!
     
  6. recycler
    Joined: Mar 27, 2001
    Posts: 661

    recycler
    Member

  7. Ryan,

    fear not, teething times for sure, but the passion you describe still exists, the desire and the attitude.

    The class 'down here' is being accepted well, and at the end of the day, each group of people who have actually built one of these style of cars shares a similar attitude to what they represent.

    The 'vision' is alive and well dude, alive and well......

    Note:We've currently got 10 cars 'race ready' for our 'Nostalgia Nationals', with a further 4 that will be racing by December 2....all home built - no prize money, just racing for the fun of it.

    Cheers,

    Drewfus
     

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  8. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,523

    Roothawg
    Member

    Good story and timely at that.
     
  9. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,582

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Cool. I wish I would build as much as I talk.

    Study that picture of Kraft and the BUG. Pioneer. Insane car. Uberconfident smirk. At that very moment - when the shutter went off - he was the coolest MFer on the planet and I think he knew it.
     
  10. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,546

    Old6rodder
    Member
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Yep,

    And I still firmly believe the SDRA "spin-off" class is a good thing for the HA/GR in the long run. Broadens the appeal of the underlying principles while leaving the hard core niche its own turf. Two different forms of the same concept and all that.
    While of course there'll be a few hard cases on both sides I'm also looking forward to the inevitable good natured rivalries that're certain to develope.

    In a like situation I'm priveledged to be a founder in a 22 year old model train club fielding layouts in two competing scales, thoroughly enjoying just this sort of rivalry there already. And while at times short sighted outsiders can take it wrong we members consider that part of the fun too.

    My one regret (and a small one at that) with our car is that I actually rather wish it'd been possible to have built without (or at least better hide) a couple of the more visible concessions we had to make to modern safety practices. I understand their need of course and fully agree with the reasoning , just wish I didn't have to look at'em.

    Still, it's the first thing that's gotten a quarter mile rise out me in far too long and I won't give it up .......... for anybody.
    If HA/GR's to be truly an ode to what was then I'll eagerly write a verse for it myself.

    So "chin up" Ryan, it's obviously worth doing, it's being done. Besides, there's no way to cram this thing back in the box now .............. :cool:
     
  11. So, I was talking to Dick Moseley. He told me he was doing some stuff for the Ratican, Stearns and Jackson Fiat. I sped over to his shop. Never even talked about the RSJ car because he was building a couple of HAMBsters. A couple of weeks later ANRA had their deal at Famoso and invited some poeple to display HAMBsters to gauge interest in the class to see if ANRA would want to host them at their events. Big crowd around them all day.

    Fast forward to the Mooneyes BBQ last Saturday. There was a big bunch of HAMBers hanging around in the machine shop. Man, you could feel the spirit of Fred Larsen in that shop. I mentioned that I had a hard on to build a HAMBster to Burny and a few others. Timebomb and I have been talking about it since I visited Moseley's place. Well, I'm not spilling any details, but I believe that there will be an entry in the class made up of HAMB buddies.

    So, thank you Kevin Lee. I think you have created something huge here. And of course, thanks go to Ryan too. This community is so much bigger than the sum of its parts. I know a lot of real old time drag racing people who are VERY interested. The competition will be intense in this class, but I don't think there is any reason to fear losing sight of the original goal. The spirit of the early pioneers will be honored, the racing will be close and most importrantly, it'll be FUN.

    Let's go racing, guys. I guess I'll have to make a lot more chili.

    Phil
     
  12. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,582

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Where did your post go Larry? There is no interest you said? Are we talking about the same class here? Seems like every other week I'm reading a post about a new rail being built.

    Anyway, as I see it there only needs to be two people interested enough to build cars to make it a race. You (with friends) and those other guys proved that the first year out. Yes?
     
  13. Mr. Mac
    Joined: May 16, 2005
    Posts: 1,965

    Mr. Mac
    Member

    Well said Ryan.I'm very proud to be one of the first to have driven in the first HA/GR race at Mokan. This is our third season and time moves on. I bet Kraft didn't drive that car very long with making some(alot) changes.Looking foward to driving the Ram Rods car this year at Mokan.
     
  14. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45877&highlight=Parasite+digger

    I also brought it to the top in hopes that this thread gets saved.

    There was a lot of good thinking going on... and hopefully guys will reign things in after reading how it all started.

    That is "the spirit of the bug", "on the cheap", "not wanting to exclude anyone because of any one rule" and "to get more people on the track having fun..."

    Sam.
     
  15. Godzilla
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,006

    Godzilla
    Member

    When I look at Kraft sitting in his car with a big smile...I imagine that he is smiling because he knows that he is going to go out there and blow some doors off. He discovered that less is more...and started a movement where everyone started taking off all the do-dads and making their cars lighter.

    I imagine it was all about performance and going quicker and faster than the next guy...I don't think he gave a hoot what it looked like. Maybe if there is a "spirit to the bug"...it should be...make it go as quick and fast as possible and don't give a hoot what it looks like.
     
  16. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Tech archives perhaps??
     
  17. Dakota
    Joined: Jan 21, 2004
    Posts: 1,535

    Dakota
    Member
    from Beulah, ND

    Amen to this. I had all the pieces to build a HA/GR and decided not too, after seeing the money poured into some of these.its one thing to build a car to compete, and one to have one to have fun with.

    If i am gonna build a car just to have fun with, im gonna built it the way i want it not according to some RULES that other teams seem to sneak around to get that extra .001 out of their car. Those kind of people ruin it for me.
     
  18. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    I deleted my earlier post because I realised I was pissing in the wind.

    You're right in the fact that it only takes 2 cars to make a race, but it also takes a fan base to support it...otherwise racing is dead.

    I invested heavily into this endeavor because I really do believe in old-time racing...just for the fun of it...but everytime a post is made about this series on the main board, it fell off like water. It almost seemed as though nobody here was interested, except for those owning a car.

    I never really understood why Ryan put us off to the side on our own website, with no link to the main board. Yes, I know he thought it would be better for the racers to not have to listen to non-car owners' opinions...but ...now we are alienated. The only ones that make the effort to find the HA/GR site are the car owners.

    Put us back on the main board where we can show our updates and improvements like everyone else here that has a new improvement on their rod.

    ...end of rant.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  19. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Larry, wtf are you talking about? :)

    Seems like we have a post a week on the big board. Maybe you are just missing them?

    I think there is ton of interest in the right car, but when guys start making these things look like a modern race car things start to slide down hill quickly. The awkward lines of a "bug" style car just don't work well with modern appointments.

    ------

    Fans? Fans? What the hell good are fans for? HA/GR racing is certainly not supported by fans. It's supported by the drivers that build the cars.... especially in the beginning...
     
  20. Well, here I go again. The lack of fans comment picks at a sore spot for me. NHRA, right now, is messing good old drag racing up in a lame attempt to get a bigger fan base. They want to be like NASCAR. Well, that just sucks. Drag racing fans as a whole are the most knowledgable fans in all of motorsport. NASCAR fans, bless their hearts, seem to be more focused on the drivers. Drag race fans want to know ETs and speed. The deal is that drag racers only incidentely race each other. They are really racing the track. Ryan is right. Who needs fans? Racing for racers and those who already know what they are watching is the ticket.

    And Larry? I would think you get enough ego stroking from winning car shows and having such a bitchen duece. Go racin' just to do it. And to compete against pals and like minded people.

    As I stated earlier, ANRA is considering allowing the HA/GR run as a class at their events. I'm sure there are like minded sanctioning groups in the East and Mid West too. This is more than doable. And I believe that folks like Rooman and Lippy understand the concept and will stay true to the vision of the Bug style car. And those two are involved in real drag racing at a high level.

    I will volunteer any time I can help. Plus I want to run a car. Let's just DO IT!!!!!
     
  21. I think if you are actually building a motor for one of these things... you kinda miss the point of the original idea...

    This is from the very first post on the class:

    "Mike, the last thing we want to do is exclude you or anyone else who is serious about building a car and towing it to MOKAN. So maybe we should either say "engines must remain stock" or "engines can be built _________"

    We need to talk about this. I don't want anyone who is on the fence about building a car to NOT build a car because of some silly rule. It's about havin' a little fun. I'm thinking nobody should have any more than $1000 in any given car.

    The idea here is to keep costs DOWN. Most everyone will probably get an old flathead six or v8, slap some more carbs on it and RUN IT. That's what I plan to do. I can't afford to tear this thing down and rebuild it... it'll run how it runs. As far as "stock" goes... I assume that you are referring to "blueprinting"... I can tell you that there isn't going to be ANYONE checking ANYTHING internally on ANY motor at MOKAN. We're on the honor system.

    Sam."


    I think a post on building one from scratch... and using only junkyard stuff... would pump some new life-blood into the HA/GR's...

    It's about re-creating the past... a past where a group of guys got together to build a car and have fun.

    I get the feeling there are still guys out there who would like to build these things... but don't want to go out and get blown away by high dollar (more than 2 or 3K) HAGARS...

    Anyone up to a challenge?

    Can anyone out there show guys how it is done on the cheap?

    Sam.
     
  22. Fans... hehehe... you're kidding, right?

    Sam.
     
  23. I don't know... I think a HA/GR class at any sanctioned event other than the HAMB Drags would kill the concept...

    The only thing that could save it then would be BRACKETS... 'cause the way it is now, the man with the most money wins...

    With Brackets... at least a guy could go out and build a period HA/GR... run it and win.

    Sam.
     
  24. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    The Spirit of the Bug is all fine and dandy...except for the fact that I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive that piece of shit at speed down the 1/4 mile....would you? I'm pretty sure I'd want some sort of "modern safety appointments" in place...can't have your cake and eat it too.

    You're right though...I don't believe we need automatic trannies, 4 barrel carbs, and stuff that ain't period correct.

    And if'n you didn't have fans...you wouldn't have the H.A.M.B.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  25. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    Easy on Larry... He is one of our first and has done a ton for the class in general.

    And Sam, that's one man's take for sure. Build one. You will NEVER see me host a bracket race though.
     
  26. I would like to hear a little more on just how much power can be used on the 6" bias tire. Just like wheelbase, I think you would soon run into a point of diminishing return. I agree that brackets suck. But there has to be a way for cars to run against other cars that go about the same. There are smarter folks than me. We'll figure it out amongst ourselves. Remember the race between Slowpoke 215 and hell, I can't recall the name, but it was two guys from the Ventura area?? That's the spirit I'm talking about.
     
  27. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    Thank you Phil for pointing out the Achiles Heel of this whole series.

    It don't make a rats ass how much friggin' horsepower/torque/money you got, cause if you can't get the power to the ground, you ain't shit.

    The 6" wide bias-ply rear tire is the equalizer.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  28. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    Yes, I would.

    If you can look at that pic and can call it a piece of shit, that is missing the point as much as hoping you'll have Fans for driving a HA/GR.

    Amateur racing is not a spectator sport ( at least its not to me ), It something you can do or watch your friends do...
     
  29. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    That is until some old farts put radial tires on them... HEHEHE

    The whole point of this post is that people get it... I've seen it at the drags and I've seen it in shops. As is, things are cool...
     

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