Technical MOTOR, Flathead in 32 frame - Engine Height?

I set the engine and trans into my 32 frame on Saturday.



It is a 59A with an S10 T-5 using an Offy adapter.

I had been thinking I would set the engine in the stock location, which should have the crankshaft in line with the crank hole in the upper u-bolt pad. I am using a model A front crossmember so the crankshaft should be about an inch below.

I mocked everything up, and if I make the lower radiator hoses line up, the crankshaft CL is about an inch higher than the crossmember. That makes me think I have the engine about 2 inches higher than stock, but the motor mount tab is only a half inch higher than the top of the rail, which doesn't seem out of line to me.

Am I missing something here?

Do I have different water pumps? The engine came out of a 46 truck.

What does everybody else do on lower radiator hoses? It seems that if the engine was lower, the radiator hoses would be a nightmare. I have seen some cast elbows that I think were for this application.

This engine height works well with the tranmission crossmember that was already in my frame and would give me more wishbone clearance, since I am using a stock, unsplit 32 wishbone.

The only drawback I see is that I will have about a 3" hump in my floor over the transmission, which I dont see as a big deal.

I thought I would get some more opinions before I weld in motor mounts.

Is there any reason that I shouldn't mount the engine this high?

Thanks,

Neal

 

I Don't have any first hand experiences working with a 32.
I wish I was so blest... but I have also seen elbow extensions soldered right onto the existing lower radiator outlets. I will advise you though definitely install rebuilt high velocity pumps that have the new bearing design from Skip Haney in Florida before attaching that engine to the frame.... Guaranteed... those old pumps will either immediately leak or go bad within the first 1000 miles. Hopefully someone who has worked with a flatty in a 32 will give you more info.

 

Typically the motor mounts are set at the top of the frame rails with the rubber pad above that. That should line up well with the lower radiator hoses. You're using truck pumps so you're on the right track there. My opinion is that the motor should be somewhat paralell with the frame. The rear looks a little high to me but you may be able to loer it a bit when you fabricate the rear mount. Good luck, keep us posted. I'll take a picture of my '32 frame tonight if I can remember.

 

You can see the elevation of my mount pad above. The same as DD discribed. I was able to get straight hoses to hook up. Not perfectly straight but very workable.

Mine is an 8cm with the truck pumps.

 

I have the frame sitting at my estimated ride height/rake and I set the intake manifold level. I figured the carbs should sit level at ride height?

I think I have the radiator set at the right height. I have a stock 32 V8 radiator, there should there be about a 1/4" pad between the mounting tab on the radiator and the front crossmember, right?

I didn't think all of this stuff through when I built my GMC p/u, it just all lined up by luck

Things are a lot tighter on the 32, so I want to try to make it all fit right the first time.

Neal

 

The pad under the radiator is some of that woven body webbing pad, I think, not 1/4" thick. Some A crossmembers had a bump where the radiator sits and some had an indentation. If you're lucky you have the indentation so you have more room to align the grille and hood.

Since you're not using a stock trans and K-member, you should just adjust the engine height to match those lower water outlets. They are the hardest part of a '32-with-a-flatty project.

Also pay attention to your clutch linkage though. Don't want an ackward angle there.


alchemy

 

One other thing to remember is that the radiator is centered in a '32 crossmember. When you change to a model A crossmember the radiator will be farther forward assuming you placed the crossmember in the sock location.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

I set the 28 Model A front crossmember so the spring center line would be in the stock location. To use a stock hood do I then need to elongate my radiator mounting holes in the crossmember toward the rear? So the holes are centered over the spring?

There sure are alot of details that I hadn't considered yet.

Keep them coming.

Thanks,

Neal

 

Your radiator will mount toward the front of the crossmember. I welded studs to mine because elongating the holes wasn't enough. I'd suggest you mount your firewall and measure to make sure of required radiator location before you go much further.

 

Fwiw - stock 32 hood length measured down the center of the top is 32".

Another fwiw - my 32 has 1/2" neoprene cushions and the radiator sits about right.
1/4" is sufficient if you want to get down a little farther.
You need to watch crossmember clearance though, in the 31 I had 1/8" neoprene and the bottom tank had about 1/8" clearance.
Different radiator brands have differently shaped lower tanks so your mileage may vary.

The 32's frame uses a re-pro Model A crossmember and it has elongated slots in it to allow fore and aft adjustment of the grille shell/radiator.
The Walker radiator has transversely oriented slots in the mounting tabs.
If you use neoprene - or other - rubber mount, use a nylock on the retaining nut, crank it down tight enough to compress the rubber a touch - about 1/16" - and the nylock will retain the adjustment.

 

a picture to show location of flathead engine mounted in 32 frame..HRP

 

lookin good neil, mine is set at about level with the frame rails, just along as you have the 3 degree angle down at the carbs you will be right.

 

Nealing, If it were me, I would rase the Flathead up as much as you can. I know this sounds strange, but I wish I had rased mine in my 29 RPU. As you start wanting to lower the front more and more the engine gets close on the bottom side.Just something to think about.--TV PS Look at how high Jimmy shine set his Flathead.

 

I agree TV, but it depends on if your using a stock firewall or not? if so and you dont want to cut it, then you have limited space to raise it.

must admit, wish mine was a few inches higher, the sucker sits so low

 

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I agree TV, but it depends on if your using a stock firewall or not? if so and you dont want to cut it, then you have limited space to raise it.


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Well I am using an original 32 firewall, but like the rest of my project, it is no cherry. Somebody already did a little torch work on the bottom edge, so I have room to go up.

On the 3 degree thing, is that for Strombergs? And I assume sloped to the rear, as in lower in the back? I have the intake sitting level right now.

This is alot of great info, keep it coming.

Thanks,

Neal

 

Hi Neal,

the base of your carb, so the intake mount of your carb should slope back towards the diff 3 degrees for the "right" set up ( alot dont ) that should be for all carbs as far as I know, but hey were all wrong sometime!

just thinking, I guess side draft webbers dont count

 

I suggest setting the engine as high as you can comfortably manage from a packaging standpoint, it helps with the ground clearance and proportions, which is really important if you plan to run hoodless. As for the flathead in a Deuce frame, here is a shot of my mounts.

 

my understanding is the 3 degrees is for the driveshaft angles. Because you have a open driveline now in an ideal world would put the outputshaft of the trans at 3degees downhill and the rearend pinion angle 3 degrees uphill. this makes ujoints happy in life. all float carbs like to have the "float" water line to be level. most manifolds are level @ 3degrees engine angle.... but a flathead was not an open driveline "most of its life".this engine gets harder the longer you think about it? make your life easy mock up the parts in quetion making you lower radiator hose a problem that is easy to overcome. then your engine height will be solved
sounds so easy.... did you put your steeringbox on the rail??

 

[ QUOTE ]
.... did you put your steeringbox on the rail??

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Not yet. I am hoping that isn't a nightmare. I was planning to get the engine and trans located, then mount the cab and seat to set the steering box/column where it needs to be. I am still undecided on what steering gear to use...F-1, F-100, or 39 box. Then I need to see if the 39 box would work as cross steering or turn it on its side for side steering with the pitman arm up. But this is a whole other topic...

I don't think I am the first one putting a flathead in a 32 frame, so I am sure I can find some combination that will work

How about an open drive shaft being higher at the rear end? It looks like the rear u-joint will be about an inch higher than the front...

Neal

 

In my opinion about 1" higher than stock would be good. It will help the rad hoses. In my car with a stock k-member the height at the rear is set. I would prefer it higher, the hoses would line up better and with a closed driveline the oil draining from the axle into the trans would be reduced.
With your setup, (open drive) having the trans lower than the rear is not a problem. Whel using 7.00 or 7.50: i6's on the rear, the axle is quite high off the ground, due to the large diameter of the wheels and tyres, so a downhill sloping driveshaft is quite common.
From my limited experience, if you have the pad that the stock biscuit mounts on level with the top of the rail, or maybe with a 1/4" spacer above the top of the rail, that should be about right.
That said, it is hard to see how high your tailshaft is. that could be higher than stock by more than one inch. It's probably not that critical when using open drive. Best just continue mocking everything up, and see how it goes.
One last thing, on my car I had the cut a clearance notch for the wishbone in the flywheel area of the sump pan. If the engine were higher that would be less necessary.
Mart.

 

Nealin, I would try to run an F-1 steering box, it will fit best and give you header clearance.That said, it will need to be modified alittle. I have one that I can give you the dimensions off of if you like,the mods shouldn't be a prob for you, as I know how good of a welder you are.--TV

 

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Nealin, I would try to run an F-1 steering box, it will fit best and give you header clearance.That said, it will need to be modified alittle.

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Is the modification to the mounting flange? I have seen a couple of solutions, but would like to hear your ideas.

I have another thing to throw in the mix. My frame had been boxed, so I haven't figured out a great way to mount a through frame box like an F-1. I guess I could just un-box that section or???

Neal

 

No big words of wisdom here. Anyway when I was building my AV8 the engine mounts were set so that the drive line would be in original level (I`m using an A front member too) so that there would not be any twist at the rear mount. That put the rad of line with the pump outlets. I did buy those cast alumnium pieces you mentioned but after that I had yo raise the rad almost an inch (ugly). Now I´m running ´51 Ford hoses (I think). They have a slight bend in them and are close match. I have a new ´32 frame for my next project that will have a similar driveline BUT with open drive so I don´t have to worry about the twist in the rear mount. The front engine mounts are now almost an inch higher (with level of the frames upper side) and about 0,4 inch back ( clears the original firewall). This also gives some free play with p-arm versus the FH engines bottom pulley. Hope this makes some sence since english is not my native language. And I think Mart had some excellent shots in his site about this topic....

 

Nealin, I would cut a hole in the boxing plate.As for the modification,yes the flange needs attention as well as the shank.It is much better to shorten the neck shank and move the box inward to frame.It gives you more room to header looks better, but to do this you must remove the shaft and shorten it also the same amount.--TV

 

Neal,

I see no problem with running the engine at that height. There's not much room for the lower hoses, as you mentioned, and I'd line those up. There's plenty of clearance above the engine, there will also be more clearance for however you decide to mount your steering box.

If for any reason you need a slightly longer or shorter hood, Rootlieb can provide one for you.

Did you mount your radiator with the springs that allow for movement? That may increase the radiator height more.

 

Neal, here is my F-100 mock up. I made the headers but I think Reds Headers makes a set for this set up. I can't drill the holes and fab the wedge untill I get the body/dash in place.

 

This is alot of great info.

Tommy - What is this chassis for? I know you have the SC, the roadster and the pickup, but what else?

Also a question on your headers. I just got a NOS RHS tube header, so I will probably make end up making one for the LHS. Are the flanges a standard 1-1/2" exhaust flange? Or are they something flathead specific?

Thanks,

Neal

 

here's how i set my up in '73

 

with the engine runnig.

 

passenger side.