Early hemi water pump conversion questions

Does anybody know how much space is gained by converting a 354 Hemi to the big block water pump? Also, does everything else on the front of this engine need to be changed to make the conversion? Will I need timing cover, water crossover, ballancer, pullies. What is the ball park price for this conversion. Any pics would also be helpful.

Kurt

 

If the 354 timing cover is the same as the '55 331 (parts number seems to show that it is) the long BBChevy W/P will fit over the OEM timing cover. That's how I'm running my '55. You will need the 392 water crossover, the W/P adaptors, & the pump. There is a wieght savings. The biggest thing is you should have no problems finding a pump in stock if it goes out, vs OEM. Balancer isn't involved.

 

My "problem" when putting this on my 392 was that the timing marks were totally obstructed from view since things are reversed now. My dampener was degreed so I REALLY wanted to utilize it. Aparently some guys will recut the keyway and rotate the dampener 90 degees so you use it on the driverside of the motor. I did put my timing mark on the other side of the motor, but instead of recutting any keyways I simply time the motor off #3 instead of #1. Mark the wire so you don't forget later.

Some new balancers are offered in either driverside or passenger side timing marks - you can avoid some headache if you order the right one.

I have the short water pump with aftermarket cover - I can measure the hieght of everything if you need it.

 

On my set up it is 10" from the front of the valve cover to the front of the fan blades.

 

I always wonder why guys wanna RUIN the look of the Old hemis by bolting a bunch of Chevy parts to them anyways.

If Yer Gonna have Enough Class to run an early hemi, Rebuild a couple of pumps & have them on the shelf just in case.

There are a ton of Rebuilders out there and they will always be able to repair the stock pump, If yer worried, keep an extra with ya.

I chromed the big front cover on my DeSoto, & have about 3 pumps here at the house... Yes, got'em all off ebay CHEEP..

Of yer gonna step up to run an early Hemi....RUN A HEMI !!
But if you are gonna start whinning about parts availibility, and cost, and the 'ol "" WHAT IF I BREAK DOWN""
Maybe you should just go with a Chevy V8.

Dont Wanna sound to much like an Ass Hole, But hell why ruin a good thing ?

 

If the starter goes out I slap another LA one on it!

 

OHH my bad ........

I forgot that the general population here has adapted an Automatic to there Hot Rods for ease of drivability.

 

early cam and late cam is the biggest problem. I beleive you need a later cam to run the conversion. If you don't your screwed. You'll have to change you cam to run conversion and at that point why do it.....Lucky

 

One excellent reason to go to the BBC pump is for $100 you can get a high-volume aluminum weiand pump which reduces the hemi's bulk, and helps prevent overheating with extended low speed cruising. Stock rebuilds won't do that.

 

You can do the HH cover, short snout cam (with spacer on 331s & 340 chain), electric fuel pump, & the balancer change discussed earlier, & the W/P adaptors & 392 water crossover, OR use the long BBC pump, W/P adaptors & the 392 watercrossover. OEM timing cover, fuel pump, balancer, choice of short (with 340 chain) or long snout cam.

 

Will the 392 water crossover work on my 354? So, with the long style water pump, and the adapters of course, there is no problem with pulley alignment to the original balancer and crank pulley? When I go to my Napa and ask for a BB long waterpump, what year should I specify, and can I get an aluminum O.E. pump?

 

George you just confused the hell out of me...Can you explain that any clearer?

 

Assuming you have the front openings, yes the 392 crossover bolts right on! Not sure where the pullys came from, but I have one belt running from the crank to the W/P, alt, & P/S. I got a Long BBC pump from Auto Zone. With my belt-pully set up did a minor amount of cleranceing between where the rad. hose fits and the pump body. If the aftermarket al pumps have the same outside deminsions, they should fit.Haven't heard of an al Hemi pump

 

OK..to use the short BBC W/P you have to use the Hot Heads cover. There is no provision for a mechanical fuel pump, therefore you gotta have an electric fuel pump. You actually could use the OEM balancer. You must also use a short snout cam (comes standard on 354, but not on 331) That's the main difference between useing short or long, at least on parts.

 

WOW ! That sound like alot of change & adapting to gain an available water pump & save and extra 5 pounds.

 

It's in the "Spirit of hot rodding"!

 

A buddy with an OEM W/P on his 354 had water seeping out the weephole for a couple years b4 he changed his W/P. Your mileage may vary.

 

Sounds more like a waste of time & money that could actually be funneled into another aspect of the car.

Why do you say its the "Spirit of Hot Rodding" ? Sound more like someone who is affraid of Originality & would rather call 1-800-SEND-PARTS.

These old engines have been running just fine with the original parts for 50 years ....

 

You know what ??

I dont even know why i try to explain this stuff about switching parts

No one ever wants to hear it, Only want to change stuff so its 'EASY' or 'AVAILABLITY'

Hers a good suggestion to all those who are SCARED of an orginal vintage engine such as a Hemi.

Buy the adapter kit & installe a set of Hemi Valve Cover to a Small Block Chevy..... That way if you happen to break ANYTHING you can call Kragen and have it the same day

Screw it ......

 

Desoto, thank you for your input. I think you have this tread confused with another one. This thread was started in hopes of finding answers about a specific modification that can be done to the cooling system of an early hemi.

I will make sure I keep you in mind and consult with you when I have questions about whether or not something is a good or bad idea in relations to building a rod...you seem to have your opinions and there is nothing wrong with that. But I was not looking for an opinion in this thread, just some facts and possibly some insight from other hambers about this particular modification.

In regards to this modification, is Desoto suggesting that all those guys that use the 354/392 mills with some very impressive horsepower ratings are full of it by creating a more effecient cooling system?

 

Well I personally bought the 392 water crossover, BB chevy pump, and adapter kit for my 331 because all together it was still half the price of a rebuilt stock pump, and I am poor.

 

I am to running the bbc pump. I have no idea where I would get a rebuilt original if I wanted to go that way? & saving a few pounds doesnt hurt either.

 

Have you checked out the Hemi Tech Index and it's related Hemi Waterpump-topic already?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116308

 

Dude, you sound like one of the restoration guys. Sure my hemi ran fine with the stock intake and 2 barrel carb. It ran pretty well with the stock exhaust manifolds as well. And that original cam...dont get me started...she purred like a little kitten suckin it's mommas tit. But, with some new parts here and there, some modifications, it sure runs a hell of allot better now then it ever did.
We have all gotten the point that you like the original waterpump. Good for you. I am sure you can spend your saved cash on other things...like mexican qualudes or zanex.

p.s. a bbc aluminum water pump weighs 7.8 lbs. The stock one has to be over 25 lbs.

Does anyone have a dimension from the front of the block to the front side of the pulley mount on the long BBC water pump? I'm wondering if I will have clearance issues.

 

I just did one on a 392. I made the pump adapters out of Billet aluminum, modified the stock timing cover to clear, used a short BBC water pump, SBC Chevy pump pulley, SBF crank pulley with a Billet aluminum adapter. The power steering has a home made bracket, with a Buick pump. The AC, and alternator brackets are both home made. I used things I had on hand, only bought a couple bolts. Is THIS the spirit of Hot Rodding?

 

8".

 

I used the Hot Heads conversion, SHORT BBC water pump, Hot Heads converted SB Mopar balancer. Stock Chevy waterpump pulley, Stock SB mopar crank pulley (it was a 4 groove...cut 2 off), and it all lined up like a wet dream...without and spacers.

For what its worth, I used a stock bbc short waterpump (steel) for the mockup. It did not clear the timing chain cover, for what ever reason the aluminum one I switched to does.

If you need pics let me know, ill get em for you.

 

Thanks BigBlockMopar, I always just sit down and run at the mouth and forget to check archives. Looks like I have some reading to do.