Engine angle

[777]

Originally Posted by 777

P/S 35 years ago, that must have been a ladder car or early 18 hole, 4 link, tube car.
I'm guessing you mean pinion angle and not crank angle. The angle of the crankshaft would have had little affect on the vehicles performance, other then a horrible vibration if the two u-joints were at differing angles.

Off topic but still thinking about your drag car. Since it takes power to drive through the u-joints. Perhaps the carnk angle change took some power away causing a parasitic loss and therefore increasing the et.
This is something done to circle track cars; it sometimes help a car in the middle of a corner, so the driver can apply full throttle more aggressively without spinning the rear tires.

[Hnstray]

Originally Posted by 777

Actually it is the volume because the volume has mass and mass has weight.
Even though the fuel is being drawn through the jets it is also being pushed harder by atmosperic pressure and then we can take into account the area on top of the fuel. the larger the area the bigger the push, given there is equal applied pressure. Also consider bowl vents as I mentioned in my other post.
I have literally leaned the entire fuel curve a couple jets sizes by changing vent angles on Holleys. It is a very useful tuning aid for those who really tinker with carbs.

Believe me not trying to come down on you. I admire your thinking. But if it helps you to think in these terms you might even go faster since I'm guessing you turn the screws on your engines a little more then most guys.

Well,Thank You, I guess, ...........but I have to respectfully disagree with some of your statements. It is true that volume has mass, and mass has weight. If you are measuring the weight of fuel in the bowl, then the greater the volume, the greater the weight. But that has absolutely nothing to do with liquids seeking their own level. If what you said was true then it follows that the greater volume the more fuel it would push through any passage connected to the fuel bowl. But that doesn't happen. Fuel levels in connected passages will be at the same level as in the fuel bowl, all other factors being equal. And, they will be drawn out by the manifold vacuum/venturi effect in the same amount, regardless of volume available.

As for the surface area of the fuel in the bowl, it matters not whether that is two square inches or something the size of Lake Erie, unless they are at different altitudes. Atmospheric pressure is expressed as PSI (pounds per square inch) and that is the force it applies to EACH square inch, but that is not cumulative when it comes to fluid levels. If we were talking hydraulic cylinders, then yes, increased surface area (larger piston) would indeed increase the pressure the cylinder could exert on an applied load. But that is a horse of different color.

What I suspect you are dealing with, by altering the vents, is inducing RAM AIR into the fuel bowl, which is greater than normal atmospheric pressure, and will influence the fuel delivery volume. But in that instance, that is mostly a result of the increase in pressure applied to the fuel, perhaps increased by the surface area, but not as much by the volume (fuel level) of fuel present in the bowl. Sort of like the ram air effect that can be applied to a carb intake, or brake cooling, if a suitable scoop and ducting are installed and the car is driven at speed. So...maybe you are "supercharging" the float bowl, but that is the cause of a change in fuel delivery, not the volume of fuel in the bowl.

Ray

[mink]

Originally Posted by Candy-Man

X2

You want the carbs level....

x3 , then measure transmission degree below horizontal and set the rear axle above that same amount with respect to horizontal.

That how I set mine according to books on chassis design.

[autoworldcorp2000]

Frame does not set level. Set it at the ride height that you are going to have the car sit statically regardless of motion later. Side to side is level! Attach the rear differential with tires, rear susp and shot bags with the exact weight that you believe the car will normally hold. We even do the driver's weight and the car's wet weight. Work backwards towards the engine mounting from the rear differential c.p. thru your trans and drive shaft 3 degrees is where the drive shaft is offset or drops front to rear to keep the pinion angled to make the U joints work. It is to be inversed from front to rear or side to side. Next comes the engine. Carburetors set level because of the float bowls.
Or build it as a 4X4 and go first with the motor mounting! OR... do a Rat Rod and throw all of this information out the window!!!!
It just MIGHT turn out COOL!
10 cents please!

[drofdar]

I was flying along with a guy once who was into all the what if stuff. So, he asked me if you threw an orange up while flying, what would it do to the weight, and therefore, performance of the aircraft. I thought that the force that was required to toss the orange up would negate the small benefit while it was suspended in the cockpit. No net gain. So he countered with what if the orange was dropped rather than tossed up. So, my thought was that if it was dropped, during that short amount of time, it would not be a factor of weight regarding aircraft performance. So, then he said, what about the weight of the air that the orange displaces? So, I immediately took a look at when our next fix would be, got out the newspaper, and stopped talking to him.

[Deuces]

How's this for engine angle???....

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Originally Posted by Deuces

How's this for engine angle???....

Well there's no carbs, floats or bowls in that rig.

[31Vicky with a hemi]

Nobody has had any input on this matter yet .

Originally Posted by 31Vicky with a hemi

And what do we do with a blower on top ? There's no angle built into that or the carb adapter.
Level carb flange gives you 0* on the crank and trans out put shaft.

Now the other parts that gets involved is a astetics - they play a huge part in this hot rod thing we do.

So picture this.....


Chassis at 4* rubber rake
Engine angle a 3*
This will show a 7* differentiation at fire wall that's not visually pleasing.

Or this :

Start with a Basically level chassis & Engine angle @ 3*

All is right with the world until ,,,,,
Now lower the front end and add the 4° rubber rake
ENgine angle is about 1° forward now.

[drptop70ss]

Originally Posted by chopperrob

The car should be at normal ride height, stance, rake etc. not necessarely "level"

Of course, but then again I set my cars up level. Just basic info for the guy with a sloped garage setting up an engine.
Amazing how such a simple deal can get into this kind of discussion, set the chassis at ride height, level side to side, set the engine with the carb base level, tack mounts, done.
I have a blower engine here waiting for installation, never looked at the carb base in relation to angle, but if it is dead level I will still set it up with the trans 3 degrees down with the chassis at ride height.

[nick_c]

I am confused.
Im runnung a banjo with transverse rear spring.
8ba flathead with t5 tranny in a z'ed a frame.
I'd like some rake, but just would like the car to be engineered well
And have all the good looks that it can.

[Hnstray]

Originally Posted by drofdar

I was flying along with a guy once who was into all the what if stuff. So, he asked me if you threw an orange up while flying, what would it do to the weight, and therefore, performance of the aircraft. I thought that the force that was required to toss the orange up would negate the small benefit while it was suspended in the cockpit. No net gain. So he countered with what if the orange was dropped rather than tossed up. So, my thought was that if it was dropped, during that short amount of time, it would not be a factor of weight regarding aircraft performance. So, then he said, what about the weight of the air that the orange displaces? So, I immediately took a look at when our next fix would be, got out the newspaper, and stopped talking to him.

I think I get your point...........but theory is the foundation of practical application.......however, theory can sometimes go well beyond the immediately useful information.

Ray

[drofdar]

All in good fun, Ray. And, I am learning lot's of very useful information!!

[tb33anda3rd]

Originally Posted by drofdar

I was flying along with a guy once who was into all the what if stuff. So, he asked me if you threw an orange up while flying, what would it do to the weight, and therefore, performance of the aircraft. I thought that the force that was required to toss the orange up would negate the small benefit while it was suspended in the cockpit. No net gain. So he countered with what if the orange was dropped rather than tossed up. So, my thought was that if it was dropped, during that short amount of time, it would not be a factor of weight regarding aircraft performance. So, then he said, what about the weight of the air that the orange displaces? So, I immediately took a look at when our next fix would be, got out the newspaper, and stopped talking to him.

the plane is carrying the air and the orange doesn't matter if it falls or is thrown=same.
when scuba diving we have to compensate for the air we use in the tank because we get more buoyant.
looked around today, maybe if i parked across my driveway with one tire on the grass the car might be level. my plow truck pushes snow up and down driveways, some of them steep enough you have to hold your coffee cup so it doesn't slide off the dash. the angle as far as running is not as critical as some have wrote. pinion/driveshaft angle are something to focus on but more important is the looks of the engine in the car. you will find in all cases if it looks good it will perform fine.