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Technical Custom building a 4-53 Street Blower

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by BadBlownMotor, May 18, 2009.

  1. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Just to let everyone know. We have sort of put this project on hold due to the hunting/holiday season. We will be resuming work after the new year. I will be checking the thread periodically during this down time. So, if you have any questions, suggestions, or comments, feel free to post'em.

    Thanks,
    BBM
     
  2. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Project is still on hold. It's not that I've abandoned the project. I'm waiting for pulleys for the front of the motor and some its internals (like the cam and lifters). I don't know when this will be since Falcon Bob is handling this.

    So, please be patient for new updates...
     
  3. Rods & Relics
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Posts: 280

    Rods & Relics
    Member

  4. Dynaflash_8
    Joined: Sep 24, 2008
    Posts: 3,038

    Dynaflash_8
    Member
    from Auburn WA

    Im REALLY glad im learing to be a cad jockey now!
     
  5. coyote 393
    Joined: Apr 13, 2011
    Posts: 1

    coyote 393
    Member

    like your blower i am working on one i just would like to ask if you know were i can buy a set of rotor gears mine have the same part #k-5107083 need the other side and the rear retainer if you dont mine helping me thanks coyote 393
     
  6. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Unfortunatlely, I've had to temporarily mothball this project. It's currently sitting in my garage collecting dust. :(

    It seems life has done a complete 180 for Falcon Bob and I over the last year and a half. For personal reasons, this required us to shelf the project.

    Worry not my friends! I've recently have been reviewing some of my blueprints on the unit. I hope to be able to complete the unit soon.

    This my to do list:

    1. Spline rotor shafts - drill and ream for lock-pins holes
    2. Finish snout internals - front seal and bearing bores, input shaft, and bearing retainers
    3. thermostat block for intake manifold
    4. pop-off valve for intake manifold


    @ Coyote 393

    Note sure I could be of any help on that. What type of blower is it? You could probably contact Lain Murphy and see if he has any ideas.
     
  7. kkustomz
    Joined: Jul 4, 2007
    Posts: 342

    kkustomz
    Member
    from Texas

    Looks great, these blowers worked fine for tons of miles as designed stock. You should have made a helix set of rotors if you were going to this much work, overdriving that blower that much is gonna make some hot air, how about you build a intercooler ?
     
  8. kkustomz
    Joined: Jul 4, 2007
    Posts: 342

    kkustomz
    Member
    from Texas

    How about building a new blower case that is water jacketed?
     
  9. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yes, I know you can run these units stock. This is not a stock build. It's a custom build. Hence, the thread title. :)

    The Weind/B&M - Holly 142/144 and 172/174 units took many design queues from these very units. Those are fully capable of running in the neighborhood of 8000 to 10000 rpms with little trouble. However, somewhere between 10% and 20% over-drive would be usual in most cases.

    I actually looked into possibly making helical rotors at one point. There is special software for aiding in the number crunching, and depending on the profiles of the rotors, it may even require specialized cutters that are custom ground. Although it's not impossible to produce, it does require much more time, money, labor and engineering for a one-off or even a small limited production run. Besides, the straight two lobe design works well enough for our purposes.

    An intercooler wouldn't be too much trouble to produce. That can be something we could consider at a later date, if need be. A new case probably not!


    Although this is for industrial compressors, the principles are the same. Not exactly a light read! This is a link containing technical information and demo software for screw type rotor engineering: http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/~sj376/anim1.html
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2011
  10. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    I'm back on the project! :D
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Awesome work!!! Those blower cases look really good with the horizontal rib milled off
    leaving your verticals.
     
  12. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yeah, I've seen that done to the cases before. They do look good that way! Falcon Bob and I want to leave some of it stock just as a throw back on the original. Heck, we even thought we would paint the case section the original green and make the rest a dark gray annodized finish. We are tired of looking at all the polished aluminum everyone runs with. After all, it will be an old looking custom we are putting this on.
     
  13. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Hopefully within the next couple of weeks I can get the shafts ground and then get them out for splining. My shop where I work as gotten pretty busy lately, which is a good thing, but it limits my time to work on this project.

    It looks like around a 100 bucks a piece to have the rotors dynamically balanced up to 10,000 rpms. This is unless material (tungsten) has to be added in the balancing, which then it's added material cost. I will know more when I get them over to the balancing shop. I'll try to get some photos of the balancing process for here also.

    I'm kind of at a temporary stand still with the snout. I need to get over to Falcon Bob's garage to do one last blower mock up. This will allow me to get a good handle on what I need for the length. Once I get the length in the ball park, it won't take long to finish it up. Doing the last mock up will let me see how I need to design the thermostat housing, and the blower belt(s) tensioner as well. Neither Falcon Bob or I has had time to breathe lately with all the things we have going on right now.

    Just keep an eye out for further posts...
     
  14. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Just curious... Would anyone actually want to pay for a set of complete blueprints to this custom blower and/or intake manifold?
     
  15. bjmoran
    Joined: Jan 25, 2011
    Posts: 2

    bjmoran
    Member
    from California

    I just stumbled across your pictures of you building a blower for a 291 DeSoto. Very nice. Did you ever get it completed? I am putting a 291 in our Roadster. Are you making the blowers? Does anyone make a manifold for a blower for a 291. Just wondering. Thank you. Barney Moran
     
  16. I just stumbled across this thread. Very cool project in taking and building your own parts.

    BBM - great work!
     
  17. For once I am speechless.
     
  18. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,349

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado


    Well, I don't have a hemi, but if you ever do one for a Caddilac flathead, or a Jimmy 302......:D

    Dude, this thread really rocks!
     
  19. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,048

    chrisp
    Member

    I'm curious would this kind of end plate fit the 4-53 too?
     
  20. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yeah. Sorry for such a long delay in posting and responding on here.

    I guess I must offer a reason and apology to the people who were and are interested in this project...

    I was hoping to have a completed and running motor back in 2009/10, but that didn't happen. The project got mothballed for many reasons. I got married, I had a death in my family, and I had possible long term unemployment looming in my future at the time just to name a few of those reasons that I had myself. Falcon Bob was ill for a while and later had a baby on the way. I myself was hoping to finish the blower portion of the project back in late 2011, but I really didn't have the time or resources to get it done.

    It's only now that I actually have had some time to look the build over to see what needs to be done, and I'm finding a lot actually needs to be done.

    First of all, this thread needs a lot of work in order to fix missing photos of the project. The website that hosted the photos is no longer in service. I do have all of the photos of this project on backed up. I may just start a brand new thread covering both past efforts and future progress. I don't know exactly when that will be.

    Second, even when I get back to fabricating and machining the remaining parts, it will most likely be at a much slower pace than before. My job does not allow me unlimited machine time for my personal projects. For this reason I'm almost inclined to do a final assembly thread instead of a play-by-play on the fabrication.

    In the mean time I will check in and try to answer any questions you may have...

    @Chrisp:
    I'm sure my bearing plates would fit a 4-53. I believe there is not much difference other than case and rotor length if I recall correctly.
     
  21. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    It's been a while since anything has been posted here. Progress is slow with this blower project because of limited machine time
    I have now. I only have a few parts left to machine and alter before the grinding work can begin. Whenever I finish the blower,
    I want to start a new thread about it's assembly with all photos included. Below is the current status of the project...


    Parts Completed To Post Date:


    Intake Manifold:
    1- 276/291 Intake Manifold Runners (both left and right side)
    2- 276/291 Intake Plenum (All ports: runners, boost, and pop-off)
    3- Custom 6V53 (Not stock) Blower manifold top-plate


    Blower Section:
    1- Front Gear Cover (Includes: Oil fill/drain holes, oil sight glass, and snout bore)
    2- Front and Rear Bearing Plates
    3- 6-Bolt Bearing retainers
    4- Rear Bearing Plate cover
    5- Original 6V53 (Case Milling/porting/recoil/re-doweling)
    6- Billet Rotors (Machined and anodized to pre-assembly state)
    7- Drive Gear Coupler
    8- Rotor Shafts
    9- Gears (Orignial Stock; Have new ones on order in case of bad backlash)
    10- Rear Shaft-To-Bearing Locks

    Snout:
    1- Snout Body
    2- 6-Bolt Snout Bearing retainers



    Parts That Need Machining To Post Date:


    Snout:
    1- Snout Input Shaft


    Blower Section:
    2- Slave Gear Support Plate
    3- Slave Gear Timing Adjustment Washer



    Parts That Need Alteration To Post Date:

    Blower Section:
    1- Drive Gear Coupler
    2- Rotor Shafts (Resizing bearing diameters to 20mm for better bearing selection; MRC 5204CZZ & 204SZZC)


    Extra Note: We will be using purchased 6061-T6 pulleys for the crank and idle in a double V setup. The blower will be a custom pulley That I will machine myself. 5.2 Crank and 4.0 Blower = 1.3:1 ratio at 6000 motor = 7800 blower. Carbs are E85 compatible. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  22. Rods & Relics
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Posts: 280

    Rods & Relics
    Member

    Thanks for the up date!!
    (& extra info :))
     
  23. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    I'm posting some information here about part sources for Detroit Diesels. I remembered that someone had asked me about gears before. I wouldn't say it's a cheap source, but a source none-the-less. I'm still looking for sources. If anyone has a good source for new or used parts for these blowers please post' em.

    Detroit Diesel Parts:
    http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/

    6v53 Gears More Specifically:
    http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/catalog/page.html?showpage=96&section=3

    The one thing I don't understand is why there is such a big difference in price on there for the R.H. gear versus the L.H. gear. Must be part availability I guess. Btw, if you need a 6V53 R.H. Gear (5107083), you can get it on eBay less than $15.00 right now as I post this.


    The following information may be of use to anyone wanting to rebuid a 6V53 blower. I pulled this info out of an old 1975 manual...

    Here are the 6V53 gear and rotor clearances:

    Blower Timing Gear Backlash: 0.0005 to 0.0025 wear limit 0.0035
    Rotor To Inlet Clearance: 0.0100
    Rotor To Outlet Clearance: 0.0040
    Rotor to Endplates: 0.0080
    Trust Plate To Thrust Washer: 0.0010 to 0.0030
    Clearance Between Rotor Lobes: 6V53 0.0090 6V53T 0.0130
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  24. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I have a 6V-71 [so I was told] sitting on the shelf for years, how would it compare to the 6V-53 as far as usablility?
     

    Attached Files:

  25. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    A 6v71 should be very usable. That's the one with the angled bolts on the case. I've seen other people post projects they did on-line using a 6v71. Give her a try.
     
  26. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I had thoughts years ago but they went by and the damn thing is pretty heavy and don't feel up to fooling with it..Its a factory rebuild; I think I'm going to look to sell it.
     
  27. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    I need to get some information on the helical gear sets for the 6V53. I hope someone can help me with this.

    The 6V53 blower I have uses 5128599 and 5128600 helical gears. The center-to-center dimension is at 3.000 inches.

    The 5107083 and 5107084 helical gears appear to have induction hardened teeth which probably means 4340 chrome moly steel material. Can anyone tell me with accuracy what the center-to-center dimension is for a 6V53 blower that uses 5107083 and 5107084 helical gears? These gears also appear to have more teeth. Are these gears any quieter than the other set?
     
  28. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

    I contacted PC Industries and all they could tell me was that they were the newer style gears that have more teeth which does make them quieter and everything else should be the same. I guess I'll order the L.H. gear and check them myself. I'll post back later with my own answer...
     
  29. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,368

    brandon
    Member

    Dyers did some stuff with the 6v71
     
  30. BadBlownMotor
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Posts: 109

    BadBlownMotor
    Member
    from Michigan

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