Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects V12 lincoln build thread

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by mk e, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    For some time I’ve been thinking I wanted to build a wooden boat. Then I got distracted trying to stuff a V12 in my car (an 84 ferrari 308) and now that the end is at least in site on that project I’m thinking about the boat again…..and V12s…..so last weekend I drug home a Lincoln V12 thinking what could possible look and sound better in a 1940s looking boat than a 1940s looking engine.

    Now here’s the problem….I know very little about flatheads in general and nothing at all about Lincoln V12 flatheads. A quick search of the forum found me a few V12 projects but not a whole lot about the engines themselves….so I’m thinking a V12 build thread is in order.

    Here's a few shots of where I'm starting from:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are the Lincoln V12's as prone to having cracks in the blocks as are the V8 flatheads?

    What kind of boat?
     
  3. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Literature you need:
    FoMoCo book "Repair Manual Lincoln V-12 Engines, H-series, 1936-1947"
    And join the LZOC, lincoln Zephyr Owners' Club, tellem you are rebuilding one, don't tellem you are not restorin a LZ...
     
  4. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    Here's a couple shots of the V12 that is just finishing up. It's a 1982 ferrari 400i block, with 1984 testarossa heads force fit on it then the that force fit onto the 308 trans.

    ....lots of sawzalling and welding and re-machining

    but now on to flathead Lincolns :)

    edit: added the finished bellhousing and heads shots
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012

  5. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    Attached Files:

    Deuces and kidcampbell71 like this.
  6. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    OK, found a used one at amazon and bought it.

    I bought a could flathead ford hop-up books yesterday thinking at least some of the info will translate to the lincoln.

    I have a flow bench I built which should help with the porting and head selection....if I can figure-out how to get the block lincoln on it and connected.
     

    Attached Files:

    Fabulous50's and Deuces like this.
  7. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    I wouldn't think you would need a lot of port work. The engine will run very well at 3500, and you wont want to run it faster for long periods anyway. At that speed, it WILL be the best sounding boat on the water.
     
    Deuces likes this.

  8. Well looking at the block that you have I can see that it is between a 1946 to 1948 block which is the better one to use for your project. Also when you are tearing down your engine look on the inside edge where the oil pan bolts on usually there are issues where some cracks were found due to water left in the block from sitting for a few years mostly due to cold weather. If you need more info do not hesitate to call me anytime at 1 (800)7640406 I can help you with this one.

    Frenchy
     
  9. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Yep..."56H" is exact Lincoln parallel to "59A" over in the Ford line. The siamesed ports lead you into strange waters...there are books from Enland on souping Austin sevens and Ford bangers with thinking on porting theories/guesses for those.
     
  10. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    Guys,
    Anybody deal with these guys?

    http://empiremotorsinc.com/Car-Heads.htm


    The guy I spoke tells me he saves orders and runs zephyr pars about every 12-18 months.... and he's running zephyr parts like right NOW.

    He makes stock or finned aluminum heads as well as smooth or finned 1, 2, 3, 4 2 brl intakes.

    I'm thinking finned heads and a finned 2x2barrel intake.

    Thoughts?
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  11. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    I've done a little port work on Harleys and have a buddy who does these for a living so I'm hoping between us we can figure out something that works.

    On the harleys there is definitely some specific stuff that needs to be done at the split, but at the cylinder itself it's pretty standard.....so I'm hoping that the basics of ford porting apply....hoping......
     
  12. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    Thanks for the ID help! The guy I got is from was thinking it was the original engine out of a 1940 he bought that had been fitted with a hemi (of some kind).

    I will absolutely give you a call! Thanks!
     
  13. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    You're right, 3500 is where it will see most of it's life...but it sure would be nice to be able to run to 4500 every now and then.

    Also I'd like to see the torque up a bit. I know the easy way to get what I'm after is a blower but I'd really prefer to get there with cam, flow and compression....I just don't like the whine of a blower anywhere near as much as the exhaust crackle of hot cams :)
     
  14. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    In the words of Chief Brody "Your gonna need a bigger boat".
     
    Cliff Ramsdell likes this.
  15. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,817

    gatz
    Member

  16. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Also, for manifolds:
    Austinrodshop.com
     
  17. Checkerwagon
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 449

    Checkerwagon
    Member

    I love seeing an electric saw sitting amidst Ferrari parts.
    That is my kind of attitude.

    Large Balls.

    You have my respect.

    Dale
    Cleveland OH
     
  18. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

  19. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    lol :)
     
  20. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,170

    PackardV8
    Member

    After the Furrarrie project, the Lincoln should be cake. They are extremely agricultural in comparison.

    It would be interesting to see some H-D KR 750 port and head science applied to the Lincoln.

    Yes, the Lincoln V12 has a smooth, sexy sound.

    No, it doesn't make any real horsepower or torque.

    Maybe, make it pretty, because it certainly won't be fast. Your late 292" was the best version, including an improved oil pump which helped. It's highly unlikely you would have the overbored 306" version produced for a short while, because most of those died an early death from overheating. Today's better oils can help the original short life span. Frenchy and the LZOC guys have some methods of improving crankcase ventilation which will help greatly.

    Which brings us to the next point; don't bore it any more than absolutely necessary. The walls get too thin Overboring a V12 causes overheating in a car. Since you have the whole lake as a radiator, you can control the temps, but notice the water inlet is on the front of the heads and notice how far it is the rear cylinder. Even with putting cool water in the front, the cylinder temps can still vary too much front to back when run hard for a while, which is how a boat works.

    Definitely have the block and heads pressure tested and magnafluxed. All the Ford flatheads have some cracks. The good news is many don't hurt anything. Those between valve seats or from a seat into the cylinder or the seat into an intake port can be a deal-breaker.

    jack vines
     
  21. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    After seeing all the aluminum and the saw, I'm a little surprised that the plan doesn't involve saw, 3 Ardun heads, and 50 pounds of welding rod...but it will look better flat!
     
  22. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    I don't know a lot about the KR engines (I had an XR) but I can probably find out. What I was thinking is the crazy Y manifold the the H-D street bikes ran for years and years might be similar porting wise to the lincoln.....maybe.

    Ferrari has been pulling the the coolant out the center of the heads on everything since the 1970s I think.....maybe something I should be considering on the lincoln.

    If I'm going to make the heads I can put the water outlet any place I please I guess. It would also not be a big deal to switch to a pair of modern waterpumps that have dual outlets then feed the block fromm both ends...or feed the heads and take the returns form both ends. I have the believe this would make a huge difference in the cooling.

    also....has anybody mess with lining the through block exhausts with anything like a ceramic coating or maybe just a SS liner? i have to thing this would help too???
     
  23. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    LOL....I only used about 15 lbs of welding rod on the ferrari :)

    I'm thinking more and more the plan will involve weldment heads....maybe taller than stock and certainly some time spend looking at water flow and distribution.

    I'm also thinking stroker crank...has anyone done a 4.25 or 4.5" crank for one of these with any success?
     
  24. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,170

    PackardV8
    Member

    If you've looked up the exhaust ports, a hard liner is next to impossible. A flathead V8 guy I know sprayed the ceramic coating in the exhaust ports. Seemed to help a bit, but he said he wished he had tried to get it on thicker and done the valves, pistons and combustion chambers too.

    Also, for the sustained higher RPMs a boat will be turning, you'll want an oil cooler.

    jack vines
     
  25. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,310

    woodbutcher
    Member

    :eek:Now this looks like FUN.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
     
  26. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    Great movie!!!...:D
     
  27. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    Thanks Jack.

    I just started the tear down last night I'm going slow and trying not to break anything so all I accomplished is the starter and oil pan off.

    Question - what do you guys do for an engine stand?

    When I hung the ferrari V12 on a stand for the local autoparts store (it was like $50) it bent the stand and I know the lincoln engine is heavier yet. My solution was 2 $50 stands plugged together and just grab the mounts on the side of the block and is really solid.

    The 2 stand creation is a little harder (possible though) for the lincoln though so I'm wondering if one of the "heavy duty" $129.95 type stands from summit, jegs, etc, actually hold this engine safely?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    Deuces likes this.
  28. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I would want double support, either sideways or lengthways. Even short, stiff engines like 350 SBC sag measurably with single support. Someone on Fordbarn pubished a simple tech on modifying 2 cheapies...I would think only real issue would be slightly changing the axial tilt of the holding part.
    There is huge use of coating tech in NASCAR and I know there have been good articles in Circle Track.
     
  29. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    So I've gotten several emails and a call after I told the Empire guy that I would not be placing an order.

    What I told him today is that if we can agree on a price for the bare castings and if he wants to cast a set of heads for me at his own expense and let me know when they are ready I'll pop down to inspect them and buy them if they are as good as he claims on the phone.

    .....I suspect that deal is not what he's looking for though :)
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  30. mk e
    Joined: Sep 12, 2012
    Posts: 135

    mk e
    Member

    I'm thinking you're exactly right...I was just hoping to hear "oh yeah, man you'll be amazed how good the heavy duty stand is"

    All i did to use 2 cheapies on the ferrari was to plug them together then sawzall and re-weld the heads to point at each other. It was pretty easy, probably 2 hours for the whole project.

    I'll see what google finds. It seems like anything should be better than nothing but the skeptic in me wonders how much can a coating that is only a couple thousandths thick actually do? I guess I've got some reading to do.....
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.