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Old 03-15-2013, 10:40 PM   #381
firengine103
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

It's too late for this project but for future reference when you fix something and it goes to crap, just reverse what you did until your back where you started. I've taken plenty of good carbs and screwed them up by fixin em.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:10 PM   #382
eugene vik
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

is your dist flooping back and forth or is the advance connected so when you advance the dist with your hand it will return back to original position??

plug fowling things???

thin engine oil or its poluted with gasoline
rings shot
engine worn out completely, rember these needed rings every 10K miles due to dirt goin past the rock catcher[air cleaner]
worn valve guides

you just may have to tear the engine down and check it out itmay be terbilly worn out as loose rings in lands and a lot of other things
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:02 AM   #383
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Quote:
Originally Posted by eugene vik View Post
is your dist flooping back and forth or is the advance connected so when you advance the dist with your hand it will return back to original position??

plug fowling things???

thin engine oil or its poluted with gasoline
rings shot
engine worn out completely, rember these needed rings every 10K miles due to dirt goin past the rock catcher[air cleaner]
worn valve guides

you just may have to tear the engine down and check it out itmay be terbilly worn out as loose rings in lands and a lot of other things
The motor was taken apart..and rebuilt..and has all new external parts..except the carb and distributor..Plenty of pics on here of every Part..and yes the dist. does snap back if I advance by hand..
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:38 AM   #384
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Assuming you are 12 volt, see if you can borrow a coil from a buddy and swap it into the mix. The whole " it runs smooth until under a load" is still bothering me. I have literally poured fuel from a 1 liter bottle gravity fed with a hose into an open intake and ran a car without the sysmtom you are having. I'm not saying your carb needs float adjusted ( black soot ) but if the ignition system is breaking down, you will also have fowled plugs. Did you ever swap in a brand new, bought today condenser?
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:33 AM   #385
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

best test of ign system is to put it on a older scope with the real patern and check available coil voltage
forgot that one good ignition is essential
can also check out the primary circuit and points with that

in tech school I put a fuel filter in the carb backwards, that was another problem back in 1964

sooner or later you are gonna find it sometimes takes awhile donttttt give up
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:22 AM   #386
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

I came back to check things. This thread is actually pretty amazing. Folks from all over the US sharing their knowledge to help a fellow HAMB member and there was almost no drama! It's not easy to figure out what's going on and give advice without actually seeing what you're talking about. Shit, I'm feeling kind of proud! Good job HAMBsters!

Sloppy, I gotta hand it to you man. You hung in there! I know this stuff can be frustrating and mind boggling when you're first learning about these old engines. I also realize it's hard to sort through everything when 10 people are giving you advice at the same time. Good job, man. Tenacity will get the job done.

I know there's still work to be done. I'm looking forward to the day when this old 235 purrs like a kitten.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:44 AM   #387
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloppymotor View Post
The motor was taken apart..and rebuilt..and has all new external parts..except the carb and distributor..Plenty of pics on here of every Part..and yes the dist. does snap back if I advance by hand..
Just a quick question for reference, you keep sayin the engine was rebuilt.
Do you know that for a fact? U keep mentioning it because u see new external gaskets, you sure they didn't just regasket stuff?
Just trying to understand it more sloppy
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:39 AM   #388
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Good day Sloppy,
Hope that the new day is good to you. If you get frustrated, walk away and come back with a fresh mind later.
As far as your plugs fowling, it could be the carb, but it could also be your ignition system. If your not getting enough voltage to the ignition, (after some warm up time) then it might not be firing right. If you throw fuel (any mixture) onto the spark plugs without sufficient spark, they will foul out. many things could cause this. The battery not charging, something electronic like the coil or condenser heating up and taking a crap, etc....
I would step back and access your electrical system.
-Is it safe to assume that your car is now 12 volts?
-how about the coil? 6 volts or 12?(try another one) it might be overheating and dying.
- on another note, a 6 volt car would deliver 6 volts to its points, and coil. A twelve volt car would utilize a ballast resistor or resistor wire to kick the ignition voltage down to 9 volts I believe.12 volts is actually too much voltage for a points / coil ignition system. Cars were also wired for the starter to apply 12 volts to the coil (bypassing the resistor) at start up for easy starting. Sometimes over the years these wires can get mixed up, and you'll be applying the 12 volts, regardless of there being a resistor in the system or not. Check your coil voltage. If it's at 12 volts or higher, that's way to much. The voltage needs to be kicked down or it will fry your points. if your car was originally 6 volts there were no resistors anywhere in the wiring. This could be causing your ignition system to heat up and melt down. That would explain it running great at startup and dying down after 5 minutes once it gets hot. I've had my 235's plugs foul out almost instantly on my cars due to issues with the ignition or charging system.

Luckily your dealing with an Inline 6, one of the easiest engines to change plugs on.

-I dont think this is a problem for you but these old external advance distributors can get sloppy where they are mounted, and that can just about kill your point gap. try gently nudgeing the distributor in one direction or another while its running to see if the performance changes or even if it dies. The way that these distributors turn and advance is a very neat novel thing, but i'm seriously considering going with an HEI from Langdons in the future. A lot of people go with the pertronics, but I just work with the points. But yeah, I've really been thinking about them HEI systems, getting an incredible reliable spark and being done with it.

Point two. you asked about the timing on 2,3,4,5,+6.
The way that i adjust my valves is by starting with one.
Turn the fan by hand "IGNITION OFF!"(push on the belt if it slips) until you reach top dead center. I do this by watching the exhaust valve open and close. (located above one of the 4 exhaust manifold ports) and then watching the intake valve open and close. (located above one of the 3 intake ports)Then you just turn the motor over by hand a bit more until your near tdc on the compression stroke. If not sure you can look at where the rotor is pointing. if its right where the plug wire is at when it would fire then your there.
You could do this going down the row of cylinders, (1,2,3,4,5,6) but once you realize what your doing by watching the valves open and close you can follow the firing order and only turn the fan a bit more to get to each cylinder.
Good luck! Once you get used to doing this, you'll find it a fun part of doing maintenance and appreciate what the old timers had to go thru even more. -Al
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:08 PM   #389
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Will one of you take a look at this Carb..and give me your opinion.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-60s-RE...21087864608%26
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:15 PM   #390
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Look for a Carter instead. Much better carb than a Rochester.
Dom
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #391
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Please resist spending $200 on something just 'cause it's pretty and clean on outside. I know you're frustrated. There has to be a better way...patience! DD
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:52 PM   #392
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

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Originally Posted by DD COOPMAN View Post
Please resist spending $200 on something just 'cause it's pretty and clean on outside. I know you're frustrated. There has to be a better way...patience! DD
I cant rebuild this carb myself..and I think its even the wrong carb to begin with.. it has a weird second vacuum line on the driver side..and I cant find a pic of anywhere of this motor .. with this carb..
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #393
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

After looking closer at the base..It seems the carb is a Rochester..But the Base has a vacuum live on it of its own..maybe this is an issue..carb sitting on a mix matched base...P.s. this isn't the wiper vac. line..and if it is.. then I know it doesn't go to this motor..cause the wiper vac. goes to the manifold...Thoughts..??
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:06 PM   #394
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Also..Isn't the "Butterfly / Choke" inside the carb supposed to move and adjust with the throttle... ??
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #395
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

No.
Hey Sloppy, The choke is contolled by a cable, which driver controls to restrict air flow while engine warms. Cold engine/no choke=popping and farting. Butterfly refers to the throttle plate on throttle shaft which opens/closes with gas pedal. They operate independently for the most part.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:50 PM   #396
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Hey Sloppy, take that air cleaner off and send us some pics of the carb again. Make them a little bigger. I still say, you may have had a simple problem originally that has become larger with all the adjusting you've been doing. These darn inlines are not rocket engines. They're pretty simple to get and keep running good with a little experience and not a lot of work. I'd love to see your choke and if it's operating. Just so you know, I've been where you are right now. Man, if I can get mine to go, so can you.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:50 PM   #397
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Maybe against my better judgement, I will add a couple of observations & maybe clear away some of the fog..

#1--After reading thru this thread a couple of times it does not seem it has been determined whether or not you have solid or hydraulic lifters.

They are solid.. Because I have a manual Trans..??? Yes..???

NO!! Just because you have a std in that car does not mean they are solid. Most information I can find indicates hydraulic in '57.

http://www.theclassicchevrolet.com/1...et_engines.htm 1957 CHEVROLET ENGINES Base Six Cylinder (Manual Transmission):

Overhead valve Cast Iron block 235.5 cubic inch displacement Bore & Stroke: 3-9/16 x 3-15/16 Compression ratio: 8.0:1 Rochester one-barrel carburetor Brake Horsepower: 140 @ 4200 RPM Four main bearings Hydraulic lifters

If you insist on adjusting the hydraulic lifters as solids, major things will happen. Not good ones. I think some valves are being held open when they shouldn't be, therefore causing your black plugs & popping. Adjust yours as if they were hydraulic & be safe. Pop a couple of lifters & see if they are scuffed.

#2--It would appear that there is a problem with timing somewhere along the line that is more than external. If you get an actual TDC (on the proper rotation of the crank) on #1 and there is no mark in the window, there is a problem. The marks on the cam & crank gears were not aligned properly on installation. Make sure you have TDC on the proper rotation of the crank. Remember the crank turns TWICE for every turn of the cam.

The distributor is usually put in there so that the rotor points in the general direction of #1 cyl although it can be set up so that is not the case. The wire from #1 (The post that the rotor is under when TDC is proper) on the cap DOES have to go to #1 cylinder. Pay attention to the direction of rotation of the rotor. Those motors will, to a degree, run with wires crossed a number of ways, and, some of them don't sound bad at low speeds.

If somebody else hasn't said this by the time I get it typed and you want some elaboration, let me know, PM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #398
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

I may have had an accidental break through... went to get new plugs and points and condencer.. when I look at the points they are different than mine.. so I have him look up the points for a 51.. and its the same as my current one.. Then I realize..when I bought the 12v conversion kit.for my 51 car..not taking into consideration the motor and dist. are a 57....I may have ordered the points and con. for a 51 as well... here is a pic...the pic of the Dizz..is with the current points..and condencer.. Also when I got the cap and wires in the mail..the first time it was wrong..to short..so I sent it back..and they sent the correct one..Im pretty sure I kept the org. point s they sent though...
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #399
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBuzzard View Post
Maybe against my better judgement, I will add a couple of observations & maybe clear away some of the fog..

#1--After reading thru this thread a couple of times it does not seem it has been determined whether or not you have solid or hydraulic lifters.

They are solid.. Because I have a manual Trans..??? Yes..???

NO!! Just because you have a std in that car does not mean they are solid. Most information I can find indicates hydraulic in '57.

http://www.theclassicchevrolet.com/1...et_engines.htm 1957 CHEVROLET ENGINES Base Six Cylinder (Manual Transmission):

Overhead valve Cast Iron block 235.5 cubic inch displacement Bore & Stroke: 3-9/16 x 3-15/16 Compression ratio: 8.0:1 Rochester one-barrel carburetor Brake Horsepower: 140 @ 4200 RPM Four main bearings Hydraulic lifters

If you insist on adjusting the hydraulic lifters as solids, major things will happen. Not good ones. I think some valves are being held open when they shouldn't be, therefore causing your black plugs & popping. Adjust yours as if they were hydraulic & be safe. Pop a couple of lifters & see if they are scuffed.

#2--It would appear that there is a problem with timing somewhere along the line that is more than external. If you get an actual TDC (on the proper rotation of the crank) on #1 and there is no mark in the window, there is a problem. The marks on the cam & crank gears were not aligned properly on installation. Make sure you have TDC on the proper rotation of the crank. Remember the crank turns TWICE for every turn of the cam.

The distributor is usually put in there so that the rotor points in the general direction of #1 cyl although it can be set up so that is not the case. The wire from #1 (The post that the rotor is under when TDC is proper) on the cap DOES have to go to #1 cylinder. Pay attention to the direction of rotation of the rotor. Those motors will, to a degree, run with wires crossed a number of ways, and, some of them don't sound bad at low speeds.

If somebody else hasn't said this by the time I get it typed and you want some elaboration, let me know, PM.
My TDC lines up with the vales open, the mark on the flywheel, and pointing at the number one plug lug.. "Perfectly"...
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:52 PM   #400
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Default Re: 57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Also should I use a larger gage wire coming from the - on the coil to the dizz.. More Current..??
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