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Old 05-06-2012, 08:45 PM   #21
pimpin paint
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Default Re: body work technical help!

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Originally Posted by 49ratfink View Post
the shrinking discs only heat the high spots so I cant really see how the disc did that if it was properly used.
Hey,

The disc probably pulled the metal surrounding the high areas into an over shrunked state thus pulling the balance of the panel out of alignment

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:08 PM   #22
fleet-master
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Default Re: body work technical help!

Golden rule is...1:Lines, 2:Edges,then 3: Middle.

Get the lines right 1st, then make sure your edges are lining up good with anything else adjacent as required...then repair whatever damage is remaining in the panel.
In your case OP..get the line straight by whatever method works for you (plenty to chose from above)..then fit and gap the door..then repair any remaining damage.
Its not unusual to have a panel on n off a dozen times (now n then it can be done in place)during a repair...thats the bit most people never see!!
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:07 PM   #23
Rusty O'Toole
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Default Re: body work technical help!

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Originally Posted by BadassBadger View Post
.................................................. ....>.>
dude really.......i'm not going to put 5 inches of bondo in my door...........
OK... buy another door.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:54 AM   #24
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Default Re: body work technical help!

well i'm fucking pissed!!! i cut an access hole on the other side like told and pushed the panel up. well when i did that it totally fucked up the metal above the body line huge low and high to the point it nearly put a kink in it..........so i did the only thing i could think of...... a relief cut so i put 2 in it and got the panel decently close and welded it up but then the panel below puckered up so bad so i put more relief cuts in it and the the whole fucking thing sank down everywhere!!!
i have no way of reproducing the panel so i guess i dont know.....use lots of fucking bondo.........
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: body work technical help!

ok alls not lost...From what you've posted you may have shrunk the panel through your welding on it...can you post some more pics please and we may be able to steer you through to a point of just needing a light skim coat of bondo.
The first thing is to get the line straight...if you straighten the flat part of the panel while leavin the line outta whack .,then come back and try to correct the line ,you'll upset all the work you've just achieved.
1: lines 2: edges 3: middle ... its just how I was taught
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Last edited by fleet-master; 05-07-2012 at 01:57 AM. Reason: grammer
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: body work technical help!

Of all the good advice given here, not once did I read "then put a relief cut in it".

You have over shrunk the metal...therefore you need to restretch the metal that you shrunk. Re-read above. There are several suggestions as to how you might achieve that.
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: body work technical help!

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Originally Posted by BadassBadger View Post
well i'm fucking pissed!!! i cut an access hole on the other side like told and pushed the panel up. well when i did that it totally fucked up the metal above the body line huge low and high to the point it nearly put a kink in it..........so i did the only thing i could think of...... a relief cut so i put 2 in it and got the panel decently close and welded it up but then the panel below puckered up so bad so i put more relief cuts in it and the the whole fucking thing sank down everywhere!!!
i have no way of reproducing the panel so i guess i dont know.....use lots of fucking bondo.........
Hoe boy!
Put the cut off wheel down, and step back from the panel...................

Relief cuts arn't often a great way to solve stretched metal in a repair, and often create more work than they solve! How did you weld up the cuts you made into the panel-squirt gun or torch welds? Any time you weld on a panel you'll have shrinkage, and you must hammer those weld beads flat to return the panel to its' correct shape. As you hammer the beads flat, with a hammer and dolly, you should see the panel return to its' semi-correct shape. DO NOT CUT ANY MORE RELIEF CUTS, and continue to shape the panel with on dolly hits to raise lows, and off dolly hits to lower the highs. If you need to shrink any areas that are high, do so only after you have straightened the body line, and it's reasonably straight and true across the panel.

You can still save this panel and not have to resort to 1/2'' of mud to finish it. Jus' stay cool, work the body line out, straighten above and below it as necessary.

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Old 05-07-2012, 07:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: body work technical help!

no need for relief cuts,we re not draining anything from the panel are we? no need for cussing either?!

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Old 05-07-2012, 07:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: body work technical help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadassBadger View Post
well i'm fucking pissed!!! i cut an access hole on the other side like told and pushed the panel up. well when i did that it totally fucked up the metal above the body line huge low and high to the point it nearly put a kink in it..........so i did the only thing i could think of...... a relief cut so i put 2 in it and got the panel decently close and welded it up but then the panel below puckered up so bad so i put more relief cuts in it and the the whole fucking thing sank down everywhere!!!
i have no way of reproducing the panel so i guess i dont know.....use lots of fucking bondo.........

I recall looking over some old AUTOBODY "apprenticeship program" books that I used to have from the 60's, and recall the section about "bumping" metal required a minimum of 1500 hours of hammer & dolly work, just to become "proficient"...not journeyman level, just "proficient". I can see why people get frustrated when things don't work out right off the bat, because it looks so dang easy in the video...Don't get frustrated, but use this as an opportunity to learn, so the next time you'll know just what to do,and maybe even be able to help out someone else in the same situation.

My point is being good at metal work, body work, bumping, pick & file work, collision repair, whatever you want to call it, doesn't come overnight-it takes a dedication of hundreds of hours of practice, and hundreds of panels, wrecked and repaired, using all the methods described here to become proficient at metal work...Body repair requires more skills than just about any other trade - from engineering to metallurgy to chemistry to welding to sculpting to electrical to mechanical and more!

Wish I was close by & could sit with you and talk about your problem and possible solutions. Although there's been some great ideas put forth, any one could be your solution, it's just impossible to give spot on advice from a couple pictures. My point is, you're not going to learn it overnight, so try not to get too frustrated, and don't give up, it's only metal, it CAN be fixed! Good luck!

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Last edited by hoof22; 05-07-2012 at 07:59 PM. Reason: spel/content
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:52 PM   #30
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Default Re: body work technical help!

sorry about the venting of frustration and i thank you all for your expert advice i just panicked and made stuff worse for my self. as screwed up as it is i will try to get it with in reason.......and if i have a parts van...... i will work on it now and update when i get it............better than it is now
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: body work technical help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadassBadger View Post
well i'm fucking pissed!!! i cut an access hole on the other side like told and pushed the panel up. well when i did that it totally fucked up the metal above the body line huge low and high to the point it nearly put a kink in it..........so i did the only thing i could think of...... a relief cut so i put 2 in it and got the panel decently close and welded it up but then the panel below puckered up so bad so i put more relief cuts in it and the the whole fucking thing sank down everywhere!!!
i have no way of reproducing the panel so i guess i dont know.....use lots of fucking bondo.........
Told you.
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: body work technical help!

My torch Idea may not have been the right thing if that is a concave (inward shape) panel. My point was just to mention that the "swelling" of the steel that a torch creates has been useful in the past for times similar to these...
Meanwhile we are all learning the challenges of doing sheet metal body repair electronically. Hell, there are 50 ways to fix this panel in the shop actually working on it - depending who you ask. There has to 200 ways to fix it electronically on the web forum...
I must say that I am impressed with the amount of great advice on here. There is one hell of a lot of body repair expertise on this HAMB forum.
Besides, I have to defer to the Highlander... as good as I am told that I am, I defer to his greater expertise...
Now we return to your regularly scheduled program...
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #33
pimpin paint
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Default Re: body work technical help!

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Originally Posted by Dustyoldbodyman View Post
My torch Idea may not have been the right thing if that is a concave (inward shape) panel. My point was just to mention that the "swelling" of the steel that a torch creates has been useful in the past for times similar to these...
Meanwhile we are all learning the challenges of doing sheet metal body repair electronically. Hell, there are 50 ways to fix this panel in the shop actually working on it - depending who you ask. There has to 200 ways to fix it electronically on the web forum...
I must say that I am impressed with the amount of great advice on here. There is one hell of a lot of body repair expertise on this HAMB forum.
Besides, I have to defer to the Highlander... as good as I am told that I am, I defer to his greater expertise...
Now we return to your regularly scheduled program...
Hey Dusty,

I've used your torch method for years to straighted dings & damage in high crowned roof panels without removing the headliner. With a netural flame from a torch, you heat the ding's center, watch it raise up, and crossfile with a sharp Vixen file until there is no more low area. No way in hell I'd try that on a reverse crowned panel, though!

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Old 05-10-2012, 06:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: body work technical help!

If you want to be a decent metal fabricator, or bodyman, not a bondo artist, you need talent, experience, and patience, as well as good luck sometimes.
Until you get the rest, work on the patience part first!
The guys giving good advice here did not get that good on their first job!
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