Welcome to the THE H.A.M.B. forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Go Back   THE H.A.M.B. > General Discussion > The Hokey Ass Message Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2012, 09:56 AM   #1
mickeyc
Alliance Member
 
mickeyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Metairie louisiana
Posts: 597
Default tig weld question?

Hello guys, and ladies, Mickey C here. I would like some input concering the Miller 180 Diversion tig welder. I am considering buying one for panel repair on my projects. I am having issues with both mig and oxy/actylene methods. Mainly burn through of old thin panels while joining them to repair pieces. If anyone may have had some expierence with
this machine I would like to hear what they think regarding this product

Thanks, Mick.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 10:10 AM   #2
ebfabman
Grenade Inspector
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: north carolina
Posts: 258
Default Re: tig weld question?

Mick, tig is a great way to weld but sounds like you need to work on your technique. Tig is going to be similar to oxy/acet as far as how you weld goes. Get a tig if you can but put in the time to get good, regardless of what welder your using. Practice, practice, and more practice.

Maybe get someone who is good to show you how you can improve.

Just trying to help......eb
online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 10:14 AM   #3
the metalsurgeon
Member
 
the metalsurgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 758
Default Re: tig weld question?

a great machine is a Miller 180 syncrowave.You can often buy them used off craigslist.The great thing with a Tig welder you can dial it down to 25/30 amps and weld tin foil thickness.


my weekly metal work blog www.themetalsurgeon.com
offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-29-2012, 10:35 AM   #4
exwestracer
Old School HAMBer
 
exwestracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Latrobe, PA (Mister Rogers' neighborhood)
Posts: 3,579
Default Re: tig weld question?

For DC welding on thin mild steel, the TIG machine isn't anywhere near as important as what you do with it. SMALL tungsten, small wire (ER70S6 .035 MIG spool wire works fine, even lower tensile will make it easier to hammer out).

Agreed that you should be able to dial in a MIG so it will run that material. You may have to stitch to get a good penetration without blowing holes in it. Make sure the face and back side of the work is CLEAN, regardless of process. If you're blasting the panels, i'd wire brush the weld area before welding to get any media residue off.

Another common problem is a poor ground path. If that MIG has to hunt for a ground, it will keep upping the voltage until it finds ground, usually followed by large holes in the metal...
__________________
Words of Wisdom from an old master...
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 10:44 AM   #5
harley man
Grenade Inspector
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: charlotte nc
Posts: 152
Default Re: tig weld question?

Tig won't help you if you can't make a mig machine work.It's not as easy as it looks. You need to practice and learn proper welding.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 11:10 AM   #6
groundpounder
Alliance Member
 
groundpounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lincolnton, NC.
Posts: 227
Default Re: tig weld question?

The Miller Diversion 180....bought one and extremely happy with it. As Harley man has stated....lotta Practice!....
__________________
Some people pay for this comedy act!....I get it for free!....
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 11:15 AM   #7
chopolds
Old School HAMBer
 
chopolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: howell, nj
Posts: 4,587
Default Re: tig weld question?

Any of the welding techniques can be difficult to master, when working on old car panels. Since you can't see if the panel is thinned out on the backside, any of these methods will blow holes in a panel if you hit a thin spot. TIG is no better than any other, in that respect. You need to inspect your panels as best you can, and cut out past what you think is damaged in many circumstances, to be welding solid metal to you patch panels.
Also with more experience, filling small blow throughs become easier. One of the things we have to live with.
__________________
Finished The Kart
Proud Member: Gold Chainers CC
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #8
BobF
Grenade Inspector
 
BobF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Poway, CA
Posts: 192
Default Re: tig weld question?

If you're replacing panels which were eaten away by rust, you need to trim back far enough to get to the good metal, full thickness, not partially devoured by the rust.
If you can get access to the rear it helps to put some copper strips 1" or wider and at least 1/8" but 3/16' or 1/4' better clamped behind the seam to be welded. Still no replacement for practice, practice.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 11:36 AM   #9
klug99
FNG
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hutchinson, KS
Posts: 31
Default Re: tig weld question?

Do you have the soft start on, on the welder?
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 12:17 PM   #10
tommy
Old School HAMBer
 
tommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Davidsonville, Md.
Posts: 14,393
Default Re: tig weld question?

You will have to learn how to adjust and handle the heat on any type of welding machine. A good experienced welder can run a machine a lot hotter than a weekend warrior. They have learned to sense when to back off. If you burn through with mig and oxy-acetelene you will probably burn through with a tig also until you learn how to adjust the heat. It takes practice to become a good welder no matter what type machine you are using.
__________________
Quote...You are hereby Knighted...'Sir Asseth of Hole' Tommy... 3W Larry.
Quote...It's called "HOT RODDING", not paint by numbers....Fab32
online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 01:10 PM   #11
klug99
FNG
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hutchinson, KS
Posts: 31
Default Re: tig weld question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy View Post
You will have to learn how to adjust and handle the heat on any type of welding machine. A good experienced welder can run a machine a lot hotter than a weekend warrior. They have learned to sense when to back off. If you burn through with mig and oxy-acetelene you will probably burn through with a tig also until you learn how to adjust the heat. It takes practice to become a good welder no matter what type machine you are using.
Well Said...
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 02:07 PM   #12
oj
Alliance Member
 
oj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Berryville, Virginia
Posts: 3,870
Default Re: tig weld question?

What others have said and i'd point out that tig is extremely difficult on rusted surfaces - very difficult and not something you want to learn on. Rust is oxydation and it drives tig crazy.
Get a tig machine, you won't regret it but it isn't the do-all answer to your problem. It takes lots of screwing metal up to get it to the point of predicting when it'll screw up and that is when you start learning.
__________________
'Molon Labe'
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 02:21 PM   #13
rustyangels
Grenade Inspector
 
rustyangels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: near Joliet
Posts: 166
Default Re: tig weld question?

I like to use a chunk of graphite block for a handheld backer, For mig wire, use solid wire.024" with a 75/25 gas mix, also what BobF said, use copper backing
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 05:30 PM   #14
tig master
Grenade Inspector
 
tig master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: up north
Posts: 397
Default Re: tig weld question?

Tig must be squeaky clean it won't tolerate rust in any small amount You will also have a steep learning curve on thin material.Yes it is doable but not a good choice for a novice welder.It must also be done with a short run bead maybe 1/2" to 3/4" .040" electrode is a good starting point and .035" mig wire straightened out,and move around to a new spot and don't weld until your first weld is cool to the hand.This is a must to reduce the warpage to a minimum.Tig responds well to hammer welding after the weld.Another requirement is a tight fit up no gap on thin panels.Gaps on thin material for a beginner tig welder will give you nightmares.Much easier when you get some seat time.I would suggest finding a buddy that can tig weld and get you going with some correct guidance.That's where I was 25 years ago and 4 tig machines later.
I started tig with only limited oxy gas experience.You haven't told us what mig you have tried?Is it a real machine or a Chinese "POS"
Hopes this helps.And to respond to your query about a diversion it is a great entry level well made tig machine that could do what you require in a new york minute.
Sorry for the long drawn out post.

Tig
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 07:19 PM   #15
hillbilly4008
Old School HAMBer
 
hillbilly4008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rome NY
Posts: 2,669
Default Re: tig weld question?

I bought the Diversion 180. Its my first TIG welder ever, actually the first time I ever TIG welded was the day it got dropped off at the shop. I'm pretty happy with it so far, and am learning it on my own. It will take ALOT of practice to get it right, but I'm getting there. What I really like about the Diversion 180 is you have the option to use the thumb trigger instead of the pedal. I'm sure this would come in handy while working inside a car.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 08:13 PM   #16
mickeyc
Alliance Member
 
mickeyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Metairie louisiana
Posts: 597
Default Re: tig weld question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tig master View Post
Tig must be squeaky clean it won't tolerate rust in any small amount You will also have a steep learning curve on thin material.Yes it is doable but not a good choice for a novice welder.It must also be done with a short run bead maybe 1/2" to 3/4" .040" electrode is a good starting point and .035" mig wire straightened out,and move around to a new spot and don't weld until your first weld is cool to the hand.This is a must to reduce the warpage to a minimum.Tig responds well to hammer welding after the weld.Another requirement is a tight fit up no gap on thin panels.Gaps on thin material for a beginner tig welder will give you nightmares.Much easier when you get some seat time.I would suggest finding a buddy that can tig weld and get you going with some correct guidance.That's where I was 25 years ago and 4 tig machines later.
I started tig with only limited oxy gas experience.You haven't told us what mig you have tried?Is it a real machine or a Chinese "POS"
Hopes this helps.And to respond to your query about a diversion it is a great entry level well made tig machine that could do what you require in a new york minute.
Sorry for the long drawn out post.

Tig
Hello Sir, I am using a Miller 252 mig welder. I am now using 030 wire.
and will switch to 023 wire this week when the drive wheels for this wire come from miller. The machine will turn as low as 14 on the heat side but
no further. The wire speed will go as slow or fast as you want. The panels are the wheel wells on the rear of a 40 ford coupe. I am fairly proficient on slightly heavier gauge with the oxy/ acet. I am also experienced with the mig on thicker metals as well. I have cleaned
the rust off the metal with a high speed wire wheel of good quality.
The victor brazing torch with a o tip is heating a spot much larger than needed. The Ford panels are very thin and with rust removal even thinner. They were not rusted badly but the cleaning did thin the metal some. As far as trimming the badly rusted ares to find the best metal to join to I have done that as well. I just thought the pin point accuracy of the tig would help with heat control as well. I will make sure to achieve a very close fit with little or no gaps and then try the mig again. I do thank you for taking your time to help me .
offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:07 PM.