Mercury hood alignment help Please

[Cole Auto]

I'm trying to get a hood to work properly on a '51 Mercury and I am at my wits end. Can somebody please help me here. The car in question is Doug O's, he's John Mearns of Acme speed shop's right hand man and there's a build thread on here for the car. The hood is the only thing keeping the car from being painted. The original hood and hinges were thrashed so I tried to fix them and made a little progress but still not right so the other day I found a real nice hood and hinges in San Diego and picked them up. I go to put the hood on the car and still have the same issues. Here's the problem-the hood fits in the opening really good but when you open and close it, it drags and digs in on the rear lower corners at the fenders. The reason seems to be that as the hood comes up, the rear moves down and then forward catching the fenders and thus scraping paint as it opens because the hood is pie shaped being wider in the rear. The hinges appear to be pretty tight (I've had looser and not this problem). Has anybody had this issue with a mercury in particular and can you please give me some ideas. Like I said, the alignment/fit is fine and I don't want to cut up the car or the hood. It must have worked new and so it should work again. Thanks in advance, Bob

[pimpin paint]

Originally Posted by Cole Auto

I'm trying to get a hood to work properly on a '51 Mercury and I am at my wits end. Can somebody please help me here. The car in question is Doug O's, he's John Mearns of Acme speed shop's right hand man and there's a build thread on here for the car. The hood is the only thing keeping the car from being painted. The original hood and hinges were thrashed so I tried to fix them and made a little progress but still not right so the other day I found a real nice hood and hinges in San Diego and picked them up. I go to put the hood on the car and still have the same issues. Here's the problem-the hood fits in the opening really good but when you open and close it, it drags and digs in on the rear lower corners at the fenders. The reason seems to be that as the hood comes up, the rear moves down and then forward catching the fenders and thus scraping paint as it opens because the hood is pie shaped being wider in the rear. The hinges appear to be pretty tight (I've had looser and not this problem). Has anybody had this issue with a mercury in particular and can you please give me some ideas. Like I said, the alignment/fit is fine and I don't want to cut up the car or the hood. It must have worked new and so it should work again. Thanks in advance, Bob

Hey Bob,

How are the panel gaps of the front fenders, and what about the doors to cowl gaps? If the fenders are too far inboard @ the cowl panel, it can present this type of problem. Also, whata bout the condition of the stretcher panel @ the back of the hood panel, the one the hinges bolt to? If this panel has ANY movement, the hood panel will flex outboard, and change the hood & fender gaps!

Jus some quick thoughts..........

" Life ain't no Disney movie "

[chopped51]

Odd. As soon as I start to open mine, it "lifts up" at the rear corners. Not down. Sorry I can't help.

[19Fordy]

Could it have something to do with the part of the hinge that bolts to the inside edge of each fender? I looked in the 49-51 Mercury Overhaul Manual and it gives very little info.on hood adjustment.

[Special Sam]

I can tell you from experience the hinges are worn. Might try finding somebody who can fix the springs to make them a little stronger. Mine's a 53 Merc and it does the same thing. I had one 20 years ago did it, put on new hinges, problem fixed. Little tougher founding new hinges now though.

[Ether]

Now you know why everyone trims the back of the hood off and welds it to the cowl!! You end up gaining anouther gap but it does away with the problem you are having and gives you the addition of an adjustment to transition the hood to the doors.
The hood hinges have to be placed in such a way that the minute you pop the hood latch, it moves up not forward. This is a fine line with the hood hinges on a Merc since they are made to spread the hood as it goes down. Also you can loosen the hood screws at the rear brace under the hood flange at the rear and get some adjustment there by tucking the hood sides in a bit.

A couple pics of how I trimmed my hood if you decide to go that route. Not rying to talk you into it, just an option.

[Cole Auto]

Yeah, I've noticed how almost all mercs are done that way. Just called a guy to have the hinges rebuilt. Going to try that and then also replace the padding or rubber between the hood skin and the spreader/hinge support. That should strengthen it up. If those two things don't work I'm all out of ideas. @pimpin paint. The door/hood cowl gaps are perfect without any modifications to hinges or fenders to make them that way so I know for a fact the body is good and if you lay the hood in the hole it fits perfectly.

[Pro Stock John]

I had Max aka 51Gringo rebuild my hinges a few years ago. I'm sure he or maybe Matt aka slddnmatt could do it. Also Matt is in Riverside, and he knows Mercury's inside and out. If he's not too far maybe you could pay him to come out and help figure it out.

When my hood flew up on my car a while ago it scratched the passenger fender which I have to repaint the top of now.

[slddnmatt]

Hoods suck..... If the hood is not popping up at the back as soon as you lift it, you need to mess with the hinges more. I will usually adjust them with the springs unattached and the seal installed on the cowl. The hinges usually stay pretty tight, sometimes you can give them a smack on the pins to take out some side to side slop. Make sure they are oiled up a little too makes a big difference. Feel free to call if ya need. 951-833-1835

[rotorwrench]

Anyone that has ever messed with a 49/51 Merc hood usually finds that they don't adjust much. The bolts in the cowl will go up & down a fair bit but the cowl adjusment brackets only move fore & aft by tilting the hood a bit forward or aft. If your springs & hinges are still relatively tight then most mal-adjustments can be traced to body adjustments of the bumper car variety. The rear of the hood can get misshapen from folks sitting on it at the drive in theatre and what not. Those crazy little trapeze bumpers at the back on the 51s were made to keep the hood from trying to go back too far. I think they were kind of an after thought.

I've done several things to get the fit right. Aside from the frame and body work to get the fenders & bumper back in position, I've done a lot of work on the back of the hood to get the shape back to normal. I enlarged the three bolt holes in the hood brackets to allow them to move a little more. They always seem to need to go up a bit more while maintaining the cowl to hood line. Just that alone will allow for more room to get the sheet metal to lay out like it's supposed to.

It is a B!tch with a capital B for sure. Takes a lot of work on a car that has been treated harshly over the years.

[pimpin paint]

Originally Posted by Cole Auto

Yeah, I've noticed how almost all mercs are done that way. Just called a guy to have the hinges rebuilt. Going to try that and then also replace the padding or rubber between the hood skin and the spreader/hinge support. That should strengthen it up. If those two things don't work I'm all out of ideas. @pimpin paint. The door/hood cowl gaps are perfect without any modifications to hinges or fenders to make them that way so I know for a fact the body is good and if you lay the hood in the hole it fits perfectly.

Hey,

If the hood panel fits the opening well, and the hinge arms & rivets are tight & straight, you're probably lookin at some tired springs that arn't keeping proper tension on the hinges once the hood latch is tripped.
Maybe Drake or Sacramento Vintage Ford sells new springs?

" Do not be too quick to drink the Kool-Aid "

[49dreamer]

I have the same problem, but one of my hinges is missing a spring so I suspect that might be the problem. I ordered a set of replacement springs from Dennis Carpenter, but the springs were way to tight to stretch from attach point to attach point and I am afraid I'm going to bend the hinge trying to attach the spring. I've been watching this auction on ebay wondering if they would fit a 1950 mercury because they appear to be very similar. Unfortunately, I can't get the seller to give me some simple measurements to see if it is compatible. Does anyone know if these might fit my 50 merc?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270897044242...84.m1438.l2649

[rotorwrench]

On the 49 to 51 Mercs the hood springs are attached to the forward hinge points that control how far up the hood goes and hold it in the up position. They are not adjustable at all unless you adjust the whole front clip up or down. The hood latch spring is all that pushes the hood upward after you release the latch mechanism. The cowl hinge sets are the only major adjustment. The size of the holes in the cowl brackets allow the brackets to be moved up/down & fore/aft a measured amount with some room for tilting several ways. The three bolts & captive nuts on each side really only allow a small amount of movement up & down since the captive nuts will slide up & down a little in their little frames. This was all the adjustment provided. If you need more you have to enlarge the aft cowl mounted hinge bracket holes in the direction you need them to go by careful observation. The large area washers on each adjustment bolt are only so big so you can't get too carried away with hole enlargements.

It shouldn't be to difficult to find some good used hood springs out there. The Merc parts list that is accessable on this board if you apply a search, has several vendors that deal in used Merc parts. I've seen new repro hinge spring on Flea-Pay but I have no idea if the will fit or work well.

[Cole Auto]

The hood hinges are sent out so we'll know in about a week whether that does the trick. You'd think with all the merc's out there somebody would make a repro hinge. Used hinges are just that and the way these things fit, they need to be perfect. I'll bet the hoods on these cars scraped the fenders months after new but back then nobody cared.

[palosfv3]

Originally Posted by pimpin paint

Hey,

If the hood panel fits the opening well, and the hinge arms & rivets are tight & straight, you're probably lookin at some tired springs that arn't keeping proper tension on the hinges once the hood latch is tripped.
Maybe Drake or Sacramento Vintage Ford sells new springs?

" Do not be too quick to drink the Kool-Aid "

X2 , This type of problem was commonplace on 60's and 70's era Cadillac hoods as well as many other GM cars of the time . When they came in scraping the tops of the fenders or digging into the front upper edge of the door , we always replaced both hood springs and that would solve the problem many times without the need to readjust the hinge itself . Remember the hood hinge spring is stretched when the hood is in the closed position and after 60 plus years in that state you should not be surprised that the spring has lost some of its tension.

[Cole Auto]

On the springs, it doesn't seem to make any difference whether the springs are in or out. All they do is hold the hood open when they are in. I've been playing with the old hinges which I fixed and added beefier arms to and I got the hood where it fits excellent and doesn't scrape anything but the margin for error is rediculously small. I don't see how everything will stay this way. It won't take much at all and the hood will hit the fenders eventually. I'm just not comfortable with the way it is but at this point I'm done. I'll let Doug make the call.

[slddnmatt]

post up a video of it opening, or some pics of your tight spots..also a side shot of your hinges, how they are snugged down at the moment..

[desotot]

pimping paint has good advice, I just about went brain dead trying to make my hood fit/work. P.S. the center brace probably needs some love as well.

[Mike51Merc]

I don't mean to hijack but it may be ON-topic; I often see e-bay listings for hood bolts with eccentric shafts for 50s Fords/Mercs. Can anyone tell what kind of adjustment you'll get by using them. They are the bolts with heads that are drilled for safety wire.

[rotorwrench]

I don't know if eccentric bolts would help much or not. I'd have to see some to form an opinion. The bolts have to be good & snug for sure. Safety wire or not, a loose bolt will just get looser.

I've also noticed how important the rubber hood rest bumpers are. They are what the hood sets on when it's down so they have a lot to do with the position it rests in. The rubbers bumpers were flat as a pancake on both of my old Mercs before I replaced them. As was mentioned previously too, the cowl lace rubber pad is just as important. I've noticed when they all go flat or are gone, the peak of the hood at the back snags on the peak of the cowl real easily. That's really fun to straighten out when it gets bowed down.

As for the springs, They are more from the late 30s & 40s era than the later 50s & 60s era. All the springs do on this set up is to act as tensioners for an over center lock. When the hood is down the hinge arms are nearly even side by side & pointing near straight down and the spring tension has actually backed off a bit from full tension. As you lift the hood it starts to act as a helper spring when the hood is raised just a few inches from the safety catch. It over centers just a few inches from full open so that it locks lightly in the open position. The springs on these cars really have no effect on the positioning of the hood when it's down. They only help you lift the hood & hold it open. If the springs get too weak , it won't hold it open well and you can remove them too easily.