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Bangers ...March or die!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bluto, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. MJW
    Joined: Jun 29, 2006
    Posts: 474

    MJW
    Member
    from NJ
    1. PA. NJ. local HAMBERS group

    I scrapped about six blocks that looked like this, and still have four or five motors to tear down to see if they are any good. Non of them B motors...you'd figure in a stash of about 15 motors the old guy would have at least had one.
     
  2. Magnus B
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 887

    Magnus B
    Member

    Hello Banger friends!

    I'm about to drill my first model B crankshaft for lubrication to the rods. I've set up my drill jig at 30 degrees and it looks like I'll work fine. But I have avauge memory of someone saying thay two of the oil passages should be drilled at a 34 degree angle. Anyone have any input on this?

    Thanks,
    Magnus
     
  3. I THINK I saw an eBay auction not too long ago for an aluminum, Model A /B oil fill tube and cap . Am I dreaming or does anyone know if there is one that someone sells?
    Ron
    p.s. 68 F and rising here at lunch time, Bluto :D:D:D:D
     
  4. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,343

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Is this what you were looking at?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    More non Ford stuff. If this is against your religion please look away. Morton & Brett head pictures taken at my house by Zendog
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  6. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,694

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    If that is sin, I don't want to be a saint! I'm just looking forward to when you work on the C***y banger I know you have waiting.

    -Dave
     
  7. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Rich

    This isn't Ford Barn. I think everyone here is happy to see your efforts. Everything we see that's new might apply to a future project.

    It's good to see your project coming along :)
     
  8. I'll look at anything! Actually I appreciate the chance to look at what you are doing. I enjoy looking at well made pieces. I even worked on my Case tractor a short time back! The last to show you I ain't prejudiced.
     
  9. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,349

    -Brent-
    Member

    Rich, can you explain the 2 differing spring set-ups? I'm admittedly a novice.
     
  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    #1 cylinder has "soft springs" temporally installed so that I can turn the engine over with the head on and pushrods installed and adjusted. Then I can use my finger to push on the valves as the piston comes up on exhaust stroke. And check for clearance between the valve and piston top.
     
  11. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,241

    RussTee
    Member

    Rich great work love to see your stuff.
     
  12. Rich;what he said !
    Ron
    Crazy; That's it ! Thanks
    Ron
     
  13. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,343

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

  14. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    I drill both the A & B cranks at 33.75* for all the journals and centered on the rod journal and have not had any problems. I looked for a picture of my setup but couldn't find it, Pat
     
  15. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I know Rich knows this but to those wanting to check piston to valve..... please check 10 degrees before and after T.D.C. in addition to TDC as that is where the valve comes closest to the piston in many cases :)
     
  16. Magnus B
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 887

    Magnus B
    Member

    OK, I'll set up my fixture at 33.75 deg and see how that goes.

    Thanks,
    Magnus
     
  17. Magnus B
    Joined: Jun 19, 2005
    Posts: 887

    Magnus B
    Member

    BTW. How do you guys break thru the hardened surface on the crank pins? I tried to do it with a carbide tipped end mill. It did almost nothing to the crank before t went all dull. Not a high quality one though. I'm thinking maybe using a rotary file or a small grinder of some sort.

    Thanks,
    Magnus
     
  18. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    center drill
     
  19. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    I make a flat spot with a 3/16 4 flute end mill then a center drill. Use cobalt tools and slow the rpm compared to mild steel, use short pecks & clean the tool with an acid brush. I use unmixed synthetic coolant, or ATF will work. You have to have some lubricity but mainly keep the temperature down with the short pecks. What are you going to use for the drill bit? The moment of greatest danger is when the drill starts to break thru, be gentle. I've heard stories long ago that when the drill broke down inside the hole they would use Nitroglycerin to get it out. I'm sure the local Home Improvement would have some. Sounds like fun but dangerous! Pat
     
  20. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I'm lucky and have nitro spray for my screwed up heart . Never thought of using it to remove a broken tool :)

    I have used Crisco to lube center drill before. Agreed Go very slow
     
  21. Rule of thumb for deep hole drilling, 1st. drill 3 diameters, 2nd. drill 2 diameters, 3rd. drill 1 diameter, each remaining drill no more than 1 diameter. I found in some cases 1/2 diameter. When you get into the material check the chips on the drill as you remove the drill from the hole, are they loose or do they show signs of packing in the flutes? If they have a tendency to pack then you might be taking too much out or have too heavy of a feed. I would use finger tips to feed with smaller drills. You must back the drill out until it clears the hole on each pass and, I would suggest, clearing the hole with air. I'm speaking of "jobber" drills. Cheap/inexpensive hardware drills should not be used The old "crankshaft" drill worked well for this operation, not sure if still listed under this designation. They had a 135* split point. There are deep hole drills but I have no experience with them in this material. I still prefer a Sulfur based cutting oil. Supposedly the Sulfur flows to the heat. I used to add 20 gallons of Sulfur base to 80 gallons of bright stock or pale oil in an 8 spindle machine This is based on deep hole drilling on automatic screw machines. Cobalt drills are stronger but have less clearance in the flutes for chips. When drilling in hard or tough materials the material can be abrasive and the drill will wear on the margins, the margin is the raised edge on the sides of the drill. The margin has a slight clearance ground into it and will wear tapering back from the cutting edge. This will cause a drill to generate more heat and can/will bind the drill and cause it to seize in the hole. Operators should check for wear at the margins. I cut the worn margin portion off and resharpen. I must admit I now have a hard time splitting the point because of worn eyes. Just don't get in a hurry. Most jobs are scrapped on the last pass.
     
  22. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    I like suphur based oils too. What I've read about the sulphur based oil is when it gets hot it produces sulphur dioxide gas. Steel can not be welded in the presents of sulphur, which is what is happening when your drill gets stuck. There's a freemachining cold rolled steel with a few percent of sulphur in it, it can't be welded very well.
     
  23. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,474

    A Rodder
    Member

    Couple things

    1) If you didn't know, Bill - bcchopit, is one helluva nice guy. I called him last minute regarding an intake for my banger. While he couldn't get one done in my three day half assed emergency, he not only offered to ship me one of his intakes with a carb, he said to take a pick between running a single or duals to borrow for an upcoming show. It doesn't get much better than that folks. So with that, a very public THANK YOU for your offer.

    In a different note, does the timing pin actually fully drop in when finding tdc, or is it a very slight detent?
    I know how to find it the "Normal" way, my pin doesn't really seem to engage anything.
     
  24. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,343

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    A trick I use is to "sharpen" (like sharpening a pencil) the end of the detent pin so that the dia. of the tip is about half of what it is stock. then it seems to drop into the detent hole in the cam gear easier.


    .
     
  25. Very slight movement it will seem like you missed it! Back it up and try again. Some people drill it bit deeper when they find it. If you still have a fiber gear you otta replace it now anyway with an AL gear n drill it deeper fore you put it on.
     
  26. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,382

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    small round dish type hole . pressure on the pin & (i use a breaker bar to turn my motor) turn the motor & you will feel it go in & out . find center from there . just go slow & pay attention .

    i use a timing light !

    bill is correct .
     
  27. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,474

    A Rodder
    Member

    I feel the small detent, I think I have it but didn't know if I should be seeing something different.

    Steve as far as the timing light, is the pully marked? Or did you get it at TDC and use reference points and mark the pully yourself?
     
  28. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,382

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

  29. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Just Plain Bill's advice is right on the money, regarding deep holes. 135º split point drills are still available from industrial supply houses, like MSC. Called "Aircraft extension drills", they usually come in 6 and 12" lengths

    Herb
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  30. Hi, Some of you guys have some information on how to modify a model A crank to full oiling, I saw the last week a crank with some drill holes like the model B crank... I asked me how do that job...
     

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