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Old 01-11-2011, 08:34 PM   #81
Rob Kozak
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Man you guys are quitters!!!
Yes it can be done you just need to think.
Nothing against Johnny Rotten's way but there is a simpler easier way. Johnny great job by the way sticking to what you want to do.
Mechanical fuel injection works around the priciple of volume and pressure. Both the volume and pressure are determined by orrifices that return "not needed" fuel to the tank. In my experience there two ways to make MFI streetable.

The first is like Johnny's with a surge tank and a dial-a-jet. This way is needed for most applications where fuel is tranfered from a rear mounted tank. In order to not load up at lights you lean out the jet on the dial and the exces fuel is returned to your surge tank not directly to your rear tank. Some surege tanks use holley float bowls to control volume in the tank. Kinslers vapor seperator set up is similar.
The next and easiest way is to make your STREET driven injection system into a multi circuit system.
You order a set of port injection nozzel bodies with springs and check valves and place them in your hat or injection system. Port injection is not needed on the street.
Example:

They come in 15, 30 pound, and custom. You can also work with them by shimming the springs.

Open your front nozzels to a larger size so the engine is ideling off two nozzels. then remove one line and nozzel from the injector. taylor the spring till it comes in when you want IE: run the motor with a tach handy so you can see when the fuel comes in. Do this progresssively till you get to full throttle.
By the way do this in gear up on jack stands. This does take some time as you will have to taylor it to your application but once done you use a pump loop and a main jet to tune your car. Also invest in a priming system so you can prime the engine from inside the car.
Check here.http://www.goodvibesracing.com/fuel_...components.htm
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:15 PM   #82
J.Fishbeck
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

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Originally Posted by cwright View Post
thanks for the advice and a manual trans is the only way to go
From my main gas tank in the rear, I'm using an electric fuel pump. That goes to the Holley fuel resevoir, which controls the fuel level in the Moon tank. The spun aluminum tank, keeps the manual engine driven pump, fed. That goes to the metering block, where I have a blank block off pill(which came from Enderle). The single bypass coming out of the metering block, goes to my Kinsler Pill quick change & returns to the aluminum tank up frt. I drove to Enderle to pick up my pump(80A 0), after they restored it & flowed it. I was given a starting point, as to which pills I needed. I ordered them from Hilborn, cos' Kinlser pills are expensive. I have been to the Hilborn factory, too! Very cool, indeed! They're info was invaluble, and both told me it wouldn't work on the street. But we all know, you can!
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:51 PM   #83
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Alky digger can set you up for the street with everything you need for that set-up. His name is Mike and his e-mail address is www.Alkydigger.com He also has a video of a small block chevy with hilborn on youtube. try www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiGFRd rYC4
If that dosent work go on E-bay and look up Chevy Hilborn injection. He advertises on there every day. He is out of Nashville,Tenn. Phone 615-483-6830
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:08 PM   #84
J.Fishbeck
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Mike Chilando, to be exact.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:26 PM   #85
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Iam using a kinsler set up had issues at start up talked with kinsler not too helpful !!mike @ alkkey digger help with one phone call, i do use alcohol wont use gas anymore. no heat issues when its a 100 degress @ track or cruise.9/18 @ 144, mph
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:07 AM   #86
treeserv
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Big block chevy efi hilborn injection setup for the street check it out. Sold
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:06 AM   #87
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

i work on sprints and midgets, and plan on running a mechanical set up on the street in my T. Not sure about your car but if the fuel tank is mounted higher than the pump it should help with starting. If your tank is low a belt or cable driven pump will allow you to place the pump low and be gravity fed. I would also chassis dyno. engine dyno will get you in the ball park, but chassis is better on driveablity issues. Then you can hit the streets and keep tuning lol. Lots of tuning, but possible. I have generally found (but not always) that higher placed nozzles help taking off in low rpm and lower nozzles (in the head) are better for high rpm peak power. I think the reason most people say it can't work on the street is due to the large amount of drag racers in hot rodding. This isn't meant as a put down, it's just not a lot of part throttle is used compared to oval track racing.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:51 PM   #88
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

I'm in the process of cleaning up our old race car and plan on converting a new old stock Hilborn manifold to efi. I don't care for the fuel log look and I understand there is a way to plumb the injectors individually. Since this unit like new (never been on an engine), I'd like to avoid any welding that could change how well the butterflies seat.
With that in mind I intend to make screw-on adaptors for the injectors. The plan is to bore holes in each runner for the injectors, and attach the adapters with small diameter machine screws. I have read that the original injector ports are a good source of manifold vacuum and then take it off of the barrel valve body.
I'll start a new thread once I get started.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:07 PM   #89
budd
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

every time this subject comes up i wounder why you couldn't mount your injectors remotely and run hoses from them, if your converting to EFI, maybe you would only need two big ass diesel injectors?
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:07 PM   #90
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Just another zample -
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:16 PM   #91
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Running it on the street is no problem. Driving it all the time will be a problem. Have fun playin' with it!
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #92
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

"Contrary to the naysayers, mechanical fuel injection can be tuned to be perfectly streetable. We stood right beside the car as Keith leaned in and hit the starter, and the engine fired to life and idled like it had EFI . . . and he never touched the throttle linkage. That's what 30 years of tuning experience will get you. A cockpit-mounted FI jet controller and exhaust temp gauge allow him to adjust the air/fuel ratio to allow easy cruising or balls-out blasts of power."

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl...car/index.html

He did it. It must be do-able.

Think about it... though not hillborn injection, early corvettes, older diesels, older mercedes benz cars... all had mechanical injection.
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:22 PM   #93
CutawayAl
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClayPigeonKiller View Post
"Contrary to the naysayers, mechanical fuel injection can be tuned to be perfectly streetable. We stood right beside the car as Keith leaned in and hit the starter, and the engine fired to life and idled like it had EFI . . . and he never touched the throttle linkage. That's what 30 years of tuning experience will get you. A cockpit-mounted FI jet controller and exhaust temp gauge allow him to adjust the air/fuel ratio to allow easy cruising or balls-out blasts of power."

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl...car/index.html

He did it. It must be do-able.

Think about it... though not hillborn injection, early corvettes, older diesels, older mercedes benz cars... all had mechanical injection.
I don't remember anyone saying it is not possible to drive a Hilborn injected car on the street. The issue is how suited it is for that use. Hilborn injection is "dumb". It was intended to work well over a limited RPM range, at high loads and high throttle opening. Hilborn meters fuel based on RPMs and throttle position, that's it. On the other hand, EFI, all but the earliest carburetors, and the various mechanical injection systems designed for street use(including the ones you mentioned) don't blindly deliver fuel based on RPMs and throttle position, they meter based on what the engine is actually doing at any given moment. If you look at how the mechanical injection works on "early corvettes, older diesels, older mercedes benz cars", and the timed mechanical injection made by Bosch, Lucas, Spica, etc; Hilborn style injection is in no way comparable those.

For anyone who chooses to believe the inherent limitations of Hilborn injections are not significant, how would you answer the following? If Hilborn injection "can be tuned to be perfectly streetable" , why is it that NO manufacturer has ever used Hilborn style injection on a street car, but instead used injection systems that are more complicated, and more expensive to produce? Although car companies are rightfully cautious about using new technologies, they do like to save money. If Hilborn injection can be "perfectly streetable" it seems like at least one road car manufacturer would have used during the 60+ years since Stu Hilborn introduced the technology. Why did the unlimited, cost is no object, Can-Am cars of the late '60 use more complicated mechanical fuel injection rather than constant flow Hilborn?

In the example you mentioned the driver has to manually adjustments fuel delivery based on operating conditions. That pretty much makes my point.
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:43 PM   #94
rotten johnny
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CutawayAl View Post
I don't remember anyone saying it is not possible to drive a Hilborn injected car on the street. The issue is how suited it is for that use. Hilborn injection is "dumb". It was intended to work well over a limited RPM range, at high loads and high throttle opening. Hilborn meters fuel based on RPMs and throttle position, that's it. On the other hand, EFI, all but the earliest carburetors, and the various mechanical injection systems designed for street use(including the ones you mentioned) don't blindly deliver fuel based on RPMs and throttle position, they meter based on what the engine is actually doing at any given moment. If you look at how the mechanical injection works on "early corvettes, older diesels, older mercedes benz cars", and the timed mechanical injection made by Bosch, Lucas, Spica, etc; Hilborn style injection is in no way comparable those.

For anyone who chooses to believe the inherent limitations of Hilborn injections are not significant, how would you answer the following? If Hilborn injection "can be tuned to be perfectly streetable" , why is it that NO manufacturer has ever used Hilborn style injection on a street car, but instead used injection systems that are more complicated, and more expensive to produce? Although car companies are rightfully cautious about using new technologies, they do like to save money. If Hilborn injection can be "perfectly streetable" it seems like at least one road car manufacturer would have used during the 60+ years since Stu Hilborn introduced the technology. Why did the unlimited, cost is no object, Can-Am cars of the late '60 use more complicated mechanical fuel injection rather than constant flow Hilborn?

In the example you mentioned the driver has to manually adjustments fuel delivery based on operating conditions. That pretty much makes my point.

Please tell me why toyota still puts floor mats in their cars.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:27 PM   #95
Mike The Photo Guy
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

More of Johnny Rotten's Car!
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:23 PM   #96
Reson8customs
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Default Re: hillborn injection on the street?

I'm getting ready to remove my leaking tri power and replace it with a 6-71 and 4 hole Hilborn converted to EFI I'll let you guys know how it goes.
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