Register now to get rid of these ads!

Making parts on homemade "draw" dies

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by metalman, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Some of you have been following the thread on 32 Ford driprails and know I came up with a way to make them. I've had several requests to know how I did it and with the Baileigh Bail Out tech week I figure it's a good time to show ya!

    If you ever looked at the profile of a 32 Ford driprail you'll see it's a pretty complex piece. Curvy, a real small heam edge plus a 1/8" bead running along the top. It would be too hard to do on a brake for sure, you could form a lot of it on a bead roller but...
    dr profile.jpg
    I've had this idea to draw metal thru dies to shape it for a while. Since I needed a set of driprails for our Vicky I thought I'd try it. Follow along and I'll show you how it worked.
     
  2. jagfxr1949
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 277

    jagfxr1949
    Member

    This promises to be very interesting with many possibilities!
     
  3. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Step one is to make the dies. I just took some various sizes of scrap cold roll, started welding it together. The idea is to pull the metal thru the die shaping it as you go. You have to kinda visulize how the metal will need to fold to make the die to do what you want. My first set will only start the small heam roll.I found out you can only do a little at a time so if you look close you can see that as the metal is drawn thru the lower die grabs the edge of the metal and folds it over the top die edge. I shaped the dies with an "armstrong" mill (hand files and sweat!).
    DSC_0078.jpg
    Lower die
    DSC_0163.jpg
    Upper die
    DSC_0080.jpg
    Both dies assembled
    DSC_0081.jpg
    Guide weld on back of the die. You have to have something to keep the metal your drawing going straight thru as you pull. One thing you must do is determine how wide the material is you'll be using to be able to make your die to match. In this case I hand formed a small 1/2" strip of metal to match an original driprail then straightend it back out to determine how wide a piece I needed.
     

  4. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Now time to actually make something with the dies. In this case I'll be using 1 7/8" x 4' strips of 18 ga. cold roll. I don't own a shear:( so I had my metal supplier do it for me. The pieces must be accurate or you'll have issues with binding. On one end I drilled and attached some scrap to pull on and cut a notch so the strip would lie in the bottom die. I sprayed the strip with a liberal coat of WD-40 (makes it MUCH easier to pull!) and bolted the top die down.
    DSC_0082.jpg
    DSC_0083.jpg
    Clamping the whole die assy. to my welding bench I hooked a Come-a-long to the strip and the other end of my bench and started pulling.
    DSC_0085.jpg
    DSC_0084.jpg
    Doesn't look like much but it's doing what I want!
    DSC_0149.jpg
    After the first pull your part will look like this profile.
     
  5. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Next step. Made another set of dies. These will finish the heam roll and bend the back of the driprail up. I hope you can see it in the pics, the angle formed by the first dies is pushed flat as it goes thru these dies. At the same time the other side of the strip is being folded up to a 90.
    DSC_0086.jpg
    lower die
    DSC_0087.jpg
    upper die
    DSC_0088.jpg
    Like in the previous step the strip will have to be notched in order to get it in the dies to start with.
    DSC_0089.jpg
    Results of the 2nd pull
    DSC_0162.jpg
    Profile of the driprail after the 2nd pull.
     
  6. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Another set of dies. These just forms the driprail into the "U" shape by folding up the other side.
    DSC_0164.jpg
    Lower die
    DSC_0165.jpg
    upper die
    DSC_0091.jpg
    3rd pull
    DSC_0158.jpg
    Profile after the 3rd pull
     
  7. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

    That is just plain clever, does the metal work-harden? Or is it about the same amount of effort to pull on the third step as the first. I think i am going to have to play with some of that type of thing. Thanks, oj
     
  8. randydupree
    Joined: May 19, 2005
    Posts: 667

    randydupree
    Member
    from archer fl

    damn nice.good job.
     
  9. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    The final set of dies. By far the most complicated but the results were exciting. I started by making the upper die fit exactly into a piece of original drip rail. Notice the grooves for the 1/8" bead on the top and the groove on the bottom.
    DSC_0166.jpg
    I took the time to make the bottom die fit as perfect as possible also. You'll notice two pieces of metal inserted into slots made into the lower die. There is a 1/8' on the top edge and a 3/16 inserted into the bottom, these will make the beads. Sorry the pic don't show it but they are held in with roll pins.
    DSC_0167.jpg
    As you tighten the bolts these pieces will be pushed into their respective grooves in the top dies.
    DSC_0142.jpg
    These two pic will show how the beads are being formed.
    DSC_0132.jpg
    DSC_0130.jpg
    As I'm pulling this last pull I have a pair of Vise grips clamped to the drip rail trying to keep as much distortion out as possible. As your pulling your part it will twist and curve and do all types of wierd things. Not a worry.
    DSC_0136.jpg
    Finally a driprail with the proper profile!:eek:
    DSC_0161.jpg
     
  10. Gigantor
    Joined: Jul 12, 2006
    Posts: 3,823

    Gigantor
    Member

    That is friggin cool. I guess all it takes is some ingenuity and determination. Thanks for sharing.
     
  11. pan-dragger
    Joined: Sep 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,186

    pan-dragger
    Member

  12. Iceberg460
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 880

    Iceberg460
    Member

    Wow! Very cool
     
  13. Great tech! Thanks
     
  14. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    After a morning of rowing a come-a-long (my arm was felling it!) I started to have a pile of raw driprail channels.
    DSC_0154.jpg
    After a couple more hours of dressing and putting the curves in the ends I had enough finished driprails for 2 cars + 1 truck set.
    DSC_0168.jpg
    Set number one went on the Vicky!
    DSC_0099-1.jpg
    DSC_0098-1.jpg
    So there you have it. Other then a welder and commen tools I was able to manufacture something + I can make as many as I want now that the dies are done. I assume since the dies are just mild steel and not hardend wear will become an issue at some point but no sign of it after 20 or so pulls.Very little out of pocket, mostly just a time investment. No, it wasn't really an easy process, lots of trial and error (about a full week of error!) so I have quite a bit invested but if you need a part and can't find it (or can't afford it if you do!) it's worth it! Think of the possibilities, not just driprails! How about grillbars to repair a grill? A missing and hard to find piece of trim, like one with folded edges for clips? Lot's of things can be made with draw dies!

    A few tips, most I learned by error!. Like I said before lubercate the part as you pull it. You will know it if you forget. Don't try to make too many bends in one die, it will become too hard to pull (You'll pull the metal apart) plus you allways need what I call a control edge. I you try to pull something folding both sides at once the piece will start to twist, eventually binding and breaking or at least get off of the correct profile. Clean the dies after each pull, you'll find bits of metal scraped off left behind and it will mess with the next pull.
    After your done pulling your piece it might have a twist or a bow in it. Clamp one end down and twist the other end back or if needed jently push the bow out. I was amazed at how workable the piece was, it almost works like spring steel after all the pulls.
    Some of you sharp eyed guys might noticed the 1/8" bead on the top was in my driprail in the early pics. I confess, I have an 1/8' edge bead die for my bead roller so I put it in at the start, it's easier! I can make it in the dies I made however just to prove it could be done and I could make the whole thing without and high doller tools like my power bead roller.
    I hope you guys find this thread usefull!
     
    reagen and ffr1222k like this.
  15. screwtheman
    Joined: Mar 24, 2005
    Posts: 845

    screwtheman
    Member

    Amazing! I'm totally impressed by the "armstrong" milled dies. Now...just clamp them all down and do the whole shebang in ONE pull! ;)
     
  16. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Didn't seem to work harden, the only change in how hard it pull is how much the metal is bending. The 2nd pull is actually the hardest, it's doing 2 bends at the same time. The last pull requires going thru the dies twice, if I try to pull both beads at the same time it become too hard too pull. The problem isn't not enough force, it's too much force will just rip the metal apart.
     
  17. beaulieu
    Joined: Mar 24, 2007
    Posts: 362

    beaulieu
    Member
    from So Cal

    great idea, so simple ,

    did you take a picture of the leading edge when you change the dies ?

    do you "point" the piece up to the area it will be drawn thru next ?

    Beaulieu
     
  18. 32fivewindow
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 226

    32fivewindow
    Member
    from USA!

    Where were you when I was working on my 5window drip rail? :) AWESOME!
     
  19. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    Now,, this is what it is about,, Nice work, great text.
     
  20. jagfxr1949
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 277

    jagfxr1949
    Member

    And it proved to be VERY interesting with LOTS of possibilities! Thanks.
     
  21. tinmann
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 1,588

    tinmann
    Member

    Very cool post..... thank you for taking the time to photog the whole process and to explain so clearly what you've done.
     
  22. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Not sure I understand what your asking. The profile pics after each stage would be the leading edge other then I cut a notch out of it to allow it to drop into the next set of dies. Once you start pulling the part behind the notch will contact the part of the die that causes it to fold however you want it to. By the time I was down to the last die it was actually pulling on only the bottom of the driprail, about 1/2" wide piece is all.
    Sorry, I have no idea what you mean about "pointing" the piece up.
     
  23. Irrational Metalworks
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 589

    Irrational Metalworks
    Alliance Vendor
    from DFW

    Metalman, killer post! I can appreciate all the work you put in to those. I never would have thought of doing it that way. I have made a set for a 32 sedan, and I will never do them again the way I did them. I only made the customer pay for about 1/3 of the time it took, because there was so much involved in the shape and detail. Again, awesome work! Next time I need some, I am calling you.
     
  24. Would it help to anneal the piece after each operation...or would it be too soft, and rip?...
     
  25. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    Irrational, I hear ya. I put off building them for the Vicky till I couldn't put it off no more (going into primer soon) and dwelled on how to do it for a long time. Can't remember where I got the idea to try this, I think I was watching a how it's made show on cable, I think they were making extruded aluminum.Of course they had BIG machines doing big sections but still they same basic principle.

    Don't know, I anneal aluminum all the time but I never anneal steel. ???
    Workhardening doesn't seem to be an issue with these.
     
  26. Kevin in NJ
    Joined: Jul 3, 2009
    Posts: 10

    Kevin in NJ
    Member

    I have got to say what a great job you have done.

    I have not had the need to that type of build. I talked to someone making draw dies and I believe they used a bunch of round forms on bearings. So you do not get the friction as you pull.

    Also did you polish the dies with a buffing wheel to reduce friction more or do you think that would not have mattered?

    Do you realize more than one guy has gone into a restoration business by doing what you are doing? :rolleyes:
     
  27. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    I have no dought that there are much better ways of making draw dies then my crude versions and I'm sure that would be a nessesity if you planned on making thousands of parts.

    I did try polishing a set of dies but didn't seem to make much difference. Maybe if they were hardened but they get scatched up pulling the metal thru. Isn't really that hard to pull as they are, wasn't an issue with what I was doing.

    Being semi retired these days I have no desire to get into the repop restoration supply business!:cool: They only reason I tried this is I needed a set of drip rails and I love a challange, just wanted to see if I could do it and if it would work. That's they great part about retirement, I can putter in the shop for a week trying something, if it don't work it's not an issue, Mama won't be pi**** there isn't a paycheck that week!!
     
  28. oldgoaly
    Joined: Oct 22, 2004
    Posts: 562

    oldgoaly
    Member

    You are the MetalMan! great post, I had tried to make some for a early V8 Chevy (1916-19) with a combination of using a brake and some roll forming, could not get the quality needed. Very good job! Thanks for sharing! tt
     
  29. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,783

    HotRodMicky
    Member

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.